Ayton in kokokovs offense

[Hoop Head]

Eh, I don't know man, I have a feeling Warriors will lose Green or Thompson at some point soon, and Iggy and Livingston are getting older. Depending on how good Booker and Ayton get this year, along with a couple of other factors (finding a competent point guard, JJ and/or Bridges looking like good players), that might be a more appealing situation.

I think Green is a possibility and he'll hurt them the most if he leaves, more than Curry, KD, or Thompson. I don't see Klay leaving though. He's talked up how much he loves it there and he has one of the best jobs and roles in the entire league. He doesn't seem to want his own team, he's happy being backcourt mates with Curry and that's helped him get used to every one else. He even said he didn't want to be a free agent next year, or whenever his deal expires, because he knows he's staying and he has no reason to look elsewhere.

Green on the other hand has made comments about being a max player and I think has mentioned supermax money as well. He could turn a team like the Suns into a contender, I think. Add Green to Booker, Ayton, and Jackson, and we can be a contender with a so-so starter like a Darren Collison type. Green takes a lot of pressure off of the PG also by his quality playmaking as a forward. His assists had been creeping up for a couple years but he averaged more than Curry the last 3 years. He's become their PG in a way. I think he might try his luck elsewhere, seeing if he can lead a team to contention. He might be a product of the system but I highly doubt that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Green is a possibility and he'll hurt them the most if he leaves, more than Curry, KD, or Thompson. I don't see Klay leaving though. He's talked up how much he loves it there and he has one of the best jobs and roles in the entire league. He doesn't seem to want his own team, he's happy being backcourt mates with Curry and that's helped him get used to every one else. He even said he didn't want to be a free agent next year, or whenever his deal expires, because he knows he's staying and he has no reason to look elsewhere.

Green on the other hand has made comments about being a max player and I think has mentioned supermax money as well. He could turn a team like the Suns into a contender, I think. Add Green to Booker, Ayton, and Jackson, and we can be a contender with a so-so starter like a Darren Collison type. Green takes a lot of pressure off of the PG also by his quality playmaking as a forward. His assists had been creeping up for a couple years but he averaged more than Curry the last 3 years. He's become their PG in a way. I think he might try his luck elsewhere, seeing if he can lead a team to contention. He might be a product of the system but I highly doubt that.

I hadn’t thought of Green. GS would be fools to let him go but he would likely the single most perfect PF around our other guys.

 

[Hoop Head]

I hadn’t thought of Green. GS would be fools to let him go but he would likely the single most perfect PF around our other guys.

He would fill 2 holes, our PF and PG holes as well as being a defensive leader. He really would be the perfect sort of "star" to add to this roster. I think you might be able to get away with PG play like the Suns have with a player like Green.

 

[AZCrazy]

Wait til we get Zion Williamson as our PF.

 

[Suns_fan69]

He would fill 2 holes, our PF and PG holes as well as being a defensive leader. He really would be the perfect sort of "star" to add to this roster. I think you might be able to get away with PG play like the Suns have with a player like Green.

The most alluring thing about Green is that he doesn't tolerate BS from anyone. I loved how he got in KD's face multiple times last year about not moving the ball and taking plays off on defense.

He's the quintessential guy you love on your team, guy you hate when he's on another team. I want to punch him in the face but he'd be a terrific fit for this team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Eh, I don't know man, I have a feeling Warriors will lose Green or Thompson at some point soon, and Iggy and Livingston are getting older. Depending on how good Booker and Ayton get this year, along with a couple of other factors (finding a competent point guard, JJ and/or Bridges looking like good players), that might be a more appealing situation.

I think they are going to lose Durant. I believe the title-chasing, easy-way-to the-top criticism really bothers him. Just like LeBron, he will get his rings and then go somewhere else where he can take a team that has never had a championship to the top. Ideally, it would be OKC, but there is so much bad blood between KD and Westbrook, I do not think it can happen.

Pipe dream is for the Suns to have the young core together and Durant be the final piece that pushes them over the top. He can be our pf.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The most alluring thing about Green is that he doesn't tolerate BS from anyone. I loved how he got in KD's face multiple times last year about not moving the ball and taking plays off on defense.

He's the quintessential guy you love on your team, guy you hate when he's on another team. I want to punch him in the face but he'd be a terrific fit for this team.

I've heard that about Rodman, Artest, Bowen and so many others and I've never agreed with it. Until now. So yeah, I hate a lot of things Green does but I'd still love him on the Suns.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think they are going to lose Durant. I believe the title-chasing, easy-way-to the-top criticism really bothers him. Just like LeBron, he will get his rings and then go somewhere else where he can take a team that has never had a championship to the top. Ideally, it would be OKC, but there is so much bad blood between KD and Westbrook, I do not think it can happen.

Pipe dream is for the Suns to have the young core together and Durant be the final piece that pushes them over the top. He can be our pf.

Eh that criticism has died down. It’s certainly not a focus any longer. I doubt it drives any of his decision making. Also, lebron wanted bring a championship to his “hometown” Durant doesn’t have that motivation.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I've heard that about Rodman, Artest, Bowen and so many others and I've never agreed with it. Until now. So yeah, I hate a lot of things Green does but I'd still love him on the Suns.

Raja Bell also had that label, and I can totally see it, but I agree with the rest, I couldn't tolerate any of those guys on the Suns. Though, Mario Elie and Robert Horry were in that class too. Luckily they both had short stints.

 

[Yuma]

I think Green is a possibility and he'll hurt them the most if he leaves, more than Curry, KD, or Thompson.

OK, I have to call BS on this. I lived in the GS market for a long time and saw a LOT of their games. Green is a filler do everything type player. NO way he would hurt the team more than if Curry, KD or Thompson leaves. NO WAY! Thompson I may give you a maybe on. KD is a guy who does everything like Draymond, too. One example I can give you where he's better than Draymond, is every key moment he was locked onto Lebron James, he came away with key stops. Lebron makes those plays against Draymond. You guys see Draymond against the Suns. He owns the Suns. It's like Draymond will be struggling to score, he plays the Suns and goes off. Curry versus Draymond, really? Really? I mean this in the most friendly way Poop, you gotta be kidding! Draymond is the perfect guy to help make a team a Champion. But I don't think he's a max contract guy, and I have seen a LOT of Draymond Green's play.

 

[Yuma]

Raja Bell also had that label, and I can totally see it, but I agree with the rest, I couldn't tolerate any of those guys on the Suns. Though, Mario Elie and Robert Horry were in that class too. Luckily they both had short stints.

I HATED Danny Ainge. As soon as he put on our uniform, I was like, that's OUR crybaby! LOL!

 

[JCSunsfan]

The defense is really encouraging. You usually don't see that in highlight vids.

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[Phrazbit]

Watching him a lot at Arizona and, IMO, feeling he actually defended well given the terrible spots Arizona put him in. He showed great foot work and hustle but he did get lost on plays sometimes... which was understandable because the Cats had him defending on the outside regularly and several Arizona players gave no effort at all on switches.

But he is a lot farther along than I thought he'd be. My biggest worry about him overall was his drive, he could coast through his career, put up 18 and 10, and make a few hundred million without really trying hard or developing his game. But i LOVE that he is trying to be a defensive leader and really trying hard on that end and when he makes a mistake you see HIM approach the coaches to talk about the play.

Also, in that highlight reel JC posted, his quickness in getting off his face up jumper is aaaamazing, guys guarding him have no time, you can tell they're worried he might try to bulldoze them and when he looks to the rim for his shot, the ball goes from a potential dribble move to out of his hands in a blink. Compare the speed he gets off his jumper to Len... I bet it's 3 times as fast. One of those reasons some players appear to have range in a shoot around but in a game situation they can't get a clean look in time.

I also love that despite the fact that he CAN hit three pointers, he didn't even try any in preseason. He's an alright outside shooter for a big... and in situations he should exploit that, but he's got the chops to be elite from mid range and an absolutely wrecking ball in the painted area, glad to see him playing to his strengths and not trying to be a jack of all trades.

 

[Hoop Head]

OK, I have to call BS on this. I lived in the GS market for a long time and saw a LOT of their games. Green is a filler do everything type player. NO way he would hurt the team more than if Curry, KD or Thompson leaves. NO WAY! Thompson I may give you a maybe on. KD is a guy who does everything like Draymond, too. One example I can give you where he's better than Draymond, is every key moment he was locked onto Lebron James, he came away with key stops. Lebron makes those plays against Draymond. You guys see Draymond against the Suns. He owns the Suns. It's like Draymond will be struggling to score, he plays the Suns and goes off. Curry versus Draymond, really? Really? I mean this in the most friendly way Poop, you gotta be kidding! Draymond is the perfect guy to help make a team a Champion. But I don't think he's a max contract guy, and I have seen a LOT of Draymond Green's play.

We'll see if Green leaves, which is unlikely. It was his suspension that allowed the Cavs to come back in the series a few years ago. He is their glue guy. I doubt everyone else plays as hard without Green pushing them. I am not referring to how Green looks when he plays the Suns, I barely finish those games, I'm talking about what I see in the playoffs. Last year they made it into the 2nd round without Curry playing. I know they have enough stars to make up for it but it seems they're worse without Green than anyone else.

As far as Durant is concerned, he's probably become their new main option, ahead of Curry, because he's a good defender and can help them more than Curry when his shot isn't falling. It's tough to judge how much they need him though since they won 73 games before he even signed there. I know he's a big piece for them now but I think they would be ok without him. They would just need to go back to who they were.

We can disagree on this, it's difficult to judge either way. I think it's hard to make the case for Durant being their most important piece when they went to 2 finals without him, won 1, and won 73 without him. Meanwhile without Green they allowed the Cavs to come back from a 1-3 deficit and win a title during a series where the Warriors were clearly the better team and virtually had the series locked up.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Watching him a lot at Arizona and, IMO, feeling he actually defended well given the terrible spots Arizona put him in. He showed great foot work and hustle but he did get lost on plays sometimes... which was understandable because the Cats had him defending on the outside regularly and several Arizona players gave no effort at all on switches.

But he is a lot farther along than I thought he'd be. My biggest worry about him overall was his drive, he could coast through his career, put up 18 and 10, and make a few hundred million without really trying hard or developing his game. But i LOVE that he is trying to be a defensive leader and really trying hard on that end and when he makes a mistake you see HIM approach the coaches to talk about the play.

Also, in that highlight reel JC posted, his quickness in getting off his face up jumper is aaaamazing, guys guarding him have no time, you can tell they're worried he might try to bulldoze them and when he looks to the rim for his shot, the ball goes from a potential dribble move to out of his hands in a blink. Compare the speed he gets off his jumper to Len... I bet it's 3 times as fast. One of those reasons some players appear to have range in a shoot around but in a game situation they can't get a clean look in time.

I also love that despite the fact that he CAN hit three pointers, he didn't even try any in preseason. He's an alright outside shooter for a big... and in situations he should exploit that, but he's got the chops to be elite from mid range and an absolutely wrecking ball in the painted area, glad to see him playing to his strengths and not trying to be a jack of all trades.

The thing that is surprising to me more than anything else is how fundamentally sound Ayton is. He plays like a classic center. He seals his man off to get the entry pass. He plays classic pick and roll well. His posture and position on defense is perfect. His footwork in the post is excellent. He keeps the ball high. His jump shot has a perfect high release for a big man. Who taught him all this stuff? This does not happen by itself.

People compare him to Embiid, but Embiid is really sloppy in his fundamentals. Embiid is big, strong, fast and throws his body around a lot. Ayton's fundamentals are similar to Tim Duncan.

 

[Suns_fan69]

http://theundefeated.com/features/deandre-ayton-son-of-the-soil-bahamas/

A bit of a fluff piece but gives some background on Ayton. Seems like a good kid.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There was a play last night that I thought was very telling of the impact that both Ayton and Booker have on the opposing defense. Ayton was positioned on the left side of the basket with a defender glued to him and Booker drove down the right side and 3 defenders sagged into the paint to cover his drive and left Ariza wide open for 3. There were also plenty where Ayton caught the ball in the post and about 4 defenders all sunk in on him and he ended up scoring anyways, but could have passed to pretty much 3 different players for wide open shots. Ultimately it is a game early in the season and Dallas may have just had some miscommunications, but it is certainly an encouraging sign as to just how much attention those two are drawing from the defense.

 

[sunsfan88]

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[95pro]

The thing that is surprising to me more than anything else is how fundamentally sound Ayton is. He plays like a classic center. He seals his man off to get the entry pass. He plays classic pick and roll well. His posture and position on defense is perfect. His footwork in the post is excellent. He keeps the ball high. His jump shot has a perfect high release for a big man. Who taught him all this stuff? This does not happen by itself.

People compare him to Embiid, but Embiid is really sloppy in his fundamentals. Embiid is big, strong, fast and throws his body around a lot. Ayton's fundamentals are similar to Tim Duncan.

Ayton's motions are just more efficient than Embiid. Embiid wastes a lot of energy putting up two points.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My favorite comment of the whole thing. McGrady saying at the last second

"Yeah, Joel's not doin' that!"

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[sunsfan88]

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Glad he's taking it well. With that kind of attitude, he can turn the weakness into a strength before long.