AYTON TRADED!

[Chaplin]

He looks rather trim. Good for him, and us. Hopefully the weight loss alleviates any leg issues he's been battling.

He’s gotta be pretty damn happy. This team is the closest he’s ever been to a chip.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Not yet it isn't.

The history of heavily involved owners has not been great! GM's need to GM, and not have an eager beaver telling them what to do.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm still trying to figure out Portland trading CJ McCollum and Larry Nance Jr.

 

[Hoop Head]

The history of heavily involved owners has not been great! GM's need to GM, and not have an eager beaver telling them what to do.

I recognize that but Ishbia has more of a basketball pedigree than any owner short of Jordan. Jordan wasn't a good owner but he was also in a weird market and his level of involvement seemed to fluctuate quite often. Until Ishbia's meddling proves troublesome then I think he's earned benefit of doubt. He didn't spend billions to sit on the sidelines. He's a basketball fan who wants to be in the thick of it. I'm cautiously optimistic regarding his involvement. I may feel differently if I had more faith in JJ to be proactive but I believe he needs someone to push him and Ishbia seems to like doing so. They could make for a solid tandem, and have so far.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I recognize that but Ishbia has more of a basketball pedigree than any owner short of Jordan. Jordan wasn't a good owner but he was also in a weird market and his level of involvement seemed to fluctuate quite often. Until Ishbia's meddling proves troublesome then I think he's earned benefit of doubt. He didn't spend billions to sit on the sidelines. He's a basketball fan who wants to be in the thick of it. I'm cautiously optimistic regarding his involvement. I may feel differently if I had more faith in JJ to be proactive but I believe he needs someone to push him and Ishbia seems to like doing so. They could make for a solid tandem, and have so far.

We'll see! There are many many examples outside of Jordan of owners being too involved - if anyone can think of examples of meddling owners being a good thing, I'd love to know them.

Yes - he spent the money and can do what he wants. But the best thing owners can do is let the people they're paying to do their jobs....do their jobs.

 

[Superbone]

As Hoop Head said, it's a very rare situation we have. How many owners in the history of the league played basketball past the high school level? Jerry Colangelo was actually one of them and he has a pretty good track record.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

As Hoop Head said, it's a very rare situation we have. How many owners in the history of the league played basketball past the high school level? Jerry Colangelo was actually one of them and he has a pretty good track record.

He was a walk on - he didn't play. Again, he may be a much better basketball mind than the majority of owners, but he's not a GM, and shouldn't be playing one.

 

[elindholm]

He was a walk on - he didn't play. Again, he may be a much better basketball mind than the majority of owners, but he's not a GM, and shouldn't be playing one.

I agree that he shouldn't be going beyond the boundaries of his job, but I don't think his limited skill as a basketball player has much to do with it. Quite a number of All-Star players have tried to become executives after their playing careers, and most have failed. The only guy who seemed to be able to do it all was Bird.

 

[Yuma]

Well, both are arguable points, nevertheless. The proof in the pudding will be the outcome. If Durant isn't able to stay healthy (just for one example), we will likely regret both trades.

What I regret mow is not taking chances. Like not resigning Joe Johnson. Suns not trying to draft Tatum because our owner is a dumbA$$. The chances you don't take sometimes are worse than the ones you do.

 

[Yuma]

He was a walk on - he didn't play. Again, he may be a much better basketball mind than the majority of owners, but he's not a GM, and shouldn't be playing one.

True, but he actually understands what a top tea takes to make. He was part of a team with a great coach and part of a great organization. So he has a better knowledge than some guy who is rich that just wants to own a team because they are bored and want to do something.

 

[Yuma]

Pretty sure the Suns are serious about winning a championship - just look at all the moves we've made since our billionaire hopefully soon to be saviour has taken over - and one thing about self made billionaires... they tend to be pretty smart and thorough when it comes to new acquisitions and business decisions - what I'm getting at is I'm pretty freakin sure Phoenix did their research on one Jusuf Nurkic - especially with the insane amount of time the trade was on the table - we're talking months - so if Nurkic was some type of disruptive drama queen mr poopy pants - I think the Suns would know - without having to google it - I mean come on

Plus, IF you know you have a turd piece on your side, assuming they only trade Ayton IF:

Booker wants him gone, or KD wants him gone, or JJ wats him gone, or Ishbia is leery of Ayton disrupting the team, etc.

If Ayton is all that with us, no way we trade him AT ALL. It doesn't matter if Nurkic has some negatives. Do you think he will fit better than Ayton. Anyone really think they didn't float this by Book and KD? Really?

 

[Yuma]

The history of heavily involved owners has not been great! GM's need to GM, and not have an eager beaver telling them what to do.

Most owners that ended up disasters were like Sarver, Dan Snyder, etc. Guys who wanted to win, but didn't know how. I like the moves Ishbia is making. Leaving out trades, etc. He's opening up TV to everyone. He's committed to improving a stadium that already has been upgraded. On the radio they are saying aside from starting a G League team, he's committed to making the Suns a world wide popular sports team by opening up Chinese and European marketing arms. He wants BOTH the Mercury and Suns to be not only top NBA teams, but top teams in all of sports in general. He is looking to expand revenues for both these teams any way he can This guy has a plan.

 

[Hoop Head]

He was a walk on - he didn't play. Again, he may be a much better basketball mind than the majority of owners, but he's not a GM, and shouldn't be playing one.

We've seen guys promoted to GM with little to no experience, JJ being an example. He went from player to Assistant GM to GM in like 2 years. What makes a good GM candidate? There's lots to it. Ishbia knows basketball and he knows business. How well he knows the business of basketball is questionable but the moves made since he's been owner have been better than the last 2 decades of Sarver. I'll give him benefit of doubt so long as he continues saying the right things and doing what he says.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m both over the moon to have an owner who will spend big dollars to win a title, but also a little leery of how often his hand seems to go in the player personnel cookie jar.

Those two feelings don’t have to be mutually exclusive from each other.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What I regret mow is not taking chances. Like not resigning Joe Johnson. Suns not trying to draft Tatum because our owner is a dumbA$$. The chances you don't take sometimes are worse than the ones you do.

That's on the GM, not the owner. Ryan McD gloated over pulling a fast one to keep Josh Jackson away from the Celtics but Boston drafted before us and everything I've read was that Tatum was always their guy.

 

[Yuma]

I’m both over the moon to have an owner who will spend big dollars to win a title, but also a little leery of how often his hand seems to go in the player personnel cookie jar.

Those two feelings don’t have to be mutually exclusive from each other.

So I am reading the articles critically. It seems like JJ is being asked what it would take to make the Suns the top team by Ishbia and answering him. Sounds like Ishbia is telling him to get it done. Then Ishbia's involvement is selling the targeted player on coming to the Suns.

 

[Yuma]

That's on the GM, not the owner. Ryan McD gloated over pulling a fast one to keep Josh Jackson away from the Celtics but Boston drafted before us and everything I've read was that Tatum was always their guy.

No. If you google, there's a famous quote on how Sarver interrupted the Tatum tryout where Tatum was on a roll hitting a large number of three's in a row. He said he already had a guy (meaning Booker) that could hit three's. He didn't need another one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Most owners that ended up disasters were like Sarver, Dan Snyder, etc. Guys who wanted to win, but didn't know how. I like the moves Ishbia is making. Leaving out trades, etc. He's opening up TV to everyone. He's committed to improving a stadium that already has been upgraded. On the radio they are saying aside from starting a G League team, he's committed to making the Suns a world wide popular sports team by opening up Chinese and European marketing arms. He wants BOTH the Mercury and Suns to be not only top NBA teams, but top teams in all of sports in general. He is looking to expand revenues for both these teams any way he can This guy has a plan.

If he's doing all of those things on his own, we're destined for disaster. GM is not a part time job and it's far more complicated today than when JC took over. We need a good GM and a good owner. I define good owner as one who sets parameters and gets involved in major decisions but by and large lets his people do their jobs. And maybe that's all we're seeing right now. I hope so because a meddlesome owner will be a huge problem, I don't care if he's the smartest man alive or if he played for every great coach that ever lived.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No. If you google, there's a famous quote on how Sarver interrupted the Tatum tryout where Tatum was on a roll hitting a large number of three's in a row. He said he already had a guy (meaning Booker) that could hit three's. He didn't need another one.

I'm familiar with the story but Boston chose Tatum. We never had the chance to choose Tatum because he was already off the board. Maybe we'd have blown it because of Sarver but we didn't have the opportunity.

 

[Superbone]

He was a walk on - he didn't play. Again, he may be a much better basketball mind than the majority of owners, but he's not a GM, and shouldn't be playing one.

Hate to tell you but many NBA owners do. Maybe you haven’t watched Winning Time. Dr. Jerry Buss insisted on drafting Magic when Jerry West would have gone a different direction. We’ve heard many times that Sarver also made key player decisions and that dude was a banker who thought he knew something about basketball.

 

[Hoop Head]

If he's doing all of those things on his own, we're destined for disaster. GM is not a part time job and it's far more complicated today than when JC took over. We need a good GM and a good owner. I define good owner as one who sets parameters and gets involved in major decisions but by and large lets his people do their jobs. And maybe that's all we're seeing right now. I hope so because a meddlesome owner will be a huge problem, I don't care if he's the smartest man alive or if he played for every great coach that ever lived.

That's what has bothered me about JJ. He has essentially said he works 9-5. Whether that was because of Sarver, I'm not sure, but he's always seemed more reactive than proactive. Ishbia seems to be very proactive and that is a breathe of a fresh air as a Suns fan because Colangelo was as well but didnt have the warchest Ishbia has at his disposal. Sarver was all about the bottom line and how much he could maximize profits, nothing more or less.

 

[Superbone]

That's on the GM, not the owner. Ryan McD gloated over pulling a fast one to keep Josh Jackson away from the Celtics but Boston drafted before us and everything I've read was that Tatum was always their guy.

Yep, in this case it didn’t matter how much of an idiot McD was about this particular situation. I don’t think a Jackson workout was going to change the Celtics’ minds.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's what has bothered me about JJ. He has essentially said he works 9-5. Whether that was because of Sarver, I'm not sure, but he's always seemed more reactive than proactive. Ishbia seems to be very proactive and that is a breathe of a fresh air as a Suns fan because Colangelo was as well but didnt have the warchest Ishbia has at his disposal. Sarver was all about the bottom line and how much he could maximize profits, nothing more or less.

Yeah that's always been my concern about him. I know he's smart, I know he knows the game, but I've never known for sure if he's fully committed he is to the job.

I'm sure that was in large part due to RS but he made the comment early on in his GM career here so maybe it's his philosophy. And maybe some of the GMs do spend more time at their job than they really need to but if you're going to differentiate yourself from them by boasting about being an 8 hour a day GM, I'm a little worried.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hate to tell you but many NBA owners do. Maybe you haven’t watched Winning Time. Dr. Jerry Buss insisted on drafting Magic when Jerry West would have gone a different direction. We’ve heard many times that Sarver also made key player decisions and that dude was a banker who thought he knew something about basketball.

And you have Red Auerbach, no matter what job he had he ran things top to bottom. But this really isn't the same NBA that Red and Buss operated in.

Sarver was meddlesome but despite knowing anything about the league and the game, he thought he was the smartest man in the room, in every room. Ishbia could be meddlesome and still be worlds better than Robert Sarver but if he's as meddlesome as Robert was, just being better than Sarver won't be enough.

 

[Superbone]

And you have Red Auerbach, no matter what job he had he ran things top to bottom. But this really isn't the same NBA that Red and Buss operated in.

Sarver was meddlesome but despite knowing anything about the league and the game, he thought he was the smartest man in the room, in every room. Ishbia could be meddlesome and still be worlds better than Robert Sarver but if he's as meddlesome as Robert was, just being better than Sarver won't be enough.

I agree it’s a fine line. But owners are going to be owners. They are going to be involved at some level. Let’s just hope Ishbia stays in his lane for the most part. Hoping for the best.