Ayton's Ceiling

[Phrazbit]

Umm... I'm on "team Ayton #1" but, I'm less worried about Doncic as a defender than I am Ayton.

I think Doncic has the size and (more important) passion, to be good defensively, regardless of where he plays. A lot of the best defenders in the NBA are not superb athletes... just look at our former boy PJ Tucker as an example, that guy is anything but a quick reflex, speed demon... but he's made his career as a defender. From the film I've seen of Doncic, he absolutely holds his own on D. Defense, IMO, is waaaaaaaay more about a player deciding to commit themselves to that aspect of that game than a player having the athletic tools to excel there. Sure, there are certain players that Doncic won't be able to contain, but literally, no one can contain the elite guards of the league.

I can tell by the way he plays that Doncic has a fire in him that not a lot of players have... and that is the only thing that worries me about taking Ayton over him. Doncic WILL be a good player in this league, I'd bet my balls on it. Ayton has all of the skill and athleticism to be one of the greatest ever but I don't know if he has the drive.

I'm still taking him first overall... because I think Ayton's floor is somewhere around "Demarcus Cousins with less technicals".

 

[JCSunsfan]

Umm... I'm on "team Ayton #1" but, I'm less worried about Doncic as a defender than I am Ayton.

I think Doncic has the size and (more important) passion, to be good defensively, regardless of where he plays. A lot of the best defenders in the NBA are not superb athletes... just look at our former boy PJ Tucker as an example, that guy is anything but a quick reflex, speed demon... but he's made his career as a defender. From the film I've seen of Doncic, he absolutely holds his own on D. Defense, IMO, is waaaaaaaay more about a player deciding to commit themselves to that aspect of that game than a player having the athletic tools to excel there. Sure, there are certain players that Doncic won't be able to contain, but literally, no one can contain the elite guards of the league.

I can tell by the way he plays that Doncic has a fire in him that not a lot of players have... and that is the only thing that worries me about taking Ayton over him. Doncic WILL be a good player in this league, I'd bet my balls on it. Ayton has all of the skill and athleticism to be one of the greatest ever but I don't know if he has the drive.

I'm still taking him first overall... because I think Ayton's floor is somewhere around "Demarcus Cousins with less technicals".

I am not really worried about either one of them as a defender. As long as Doncic is not guarding little pg's he should be ok. I think Ayton will be a good defender with just minimal coaching adjustments.

 

[jandaman]

Ayton just needs a coach to mentor him defensively. Mike Woodson has coached defensive players before... Corliss Williamson is a defensive minded player or atleast played for Brown who's a defensive minded coach... they need to coach and develop him.

Have to realize Ayton is NO WAY near a finished product. Duncan became an elite defender in college because he spent 4 years developing there.

The suns have had terrible defensive coaches the last 3 or so years.. well it seemed that way anyways

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton just needs a coach to mentor him defensively. Mike Woodson has coached defensive players before... Corliss Williamson is a defensive minded player or atleast played for Brown who's a defensive minded coach... they need to coach and develop him.

Have to realize Ayton is NO WAY near a finished product. Duncan became an elite defender in college because he spent 4 years developing there.

The suns have had terrible defensive coaches the last 3 or so years.. well it seemed that way anyways

Ayton is on a fast learning curve too. His game has developed a lot in the last year.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

McD is on record as stating that he believes Ayton will be a good defender on the NBA level. If he truly believes that than I see virtually no chance that they either trade the pick or draft anyone else.

 

[AzStevenCal]

McD is on record as stating that he believes Ayton will be a good defender on the NBA level. If he truly believes that than I see virtually no chance that they either trade the pick or draft anyone else.

I agree. And as I've mentioned before, Ryan has made it clear from the beginning that the only thing he'd trade it for would be a young star and that it would be a straight up pick for player deal. This nonsense from ESPN and others that we are actively shopping the pick is just that, nonsense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bump! Fight the future!!!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

I meant to post this earlier. Here is a more detailed description of Ayton from McDonough. Some of it has already been mentioned.

“Yeah, he’s a terrific athlete. I think schematically a lot it was schematically. They had him playing they had him playing the 4 a lot with Ristic, so he was guarding away from the basket on the perimeter,” McDonough said. “In the NBA, obviously he’s a center. He slides well. He moves his feet well. He’s a tremendous athlete at that size in terms of strength fluidity, coordination, all of that. What I’ve seen on film and in-person so far, a lot it is just experience. I think knowing defensive rotations. When to switch, when to rotate, that just comes with time. He has a high level feel for the game, especially on the offensive end of the court. And from my experience, guys who have it on that end of the floor usually, in time, able to translate that to the defensive end of the floor as well.”

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...dre-ayton-luka-doncic-mohamed-bamba-nba-draft

 

[JCSunsfan]

McD is on record as stating that he believes Ayton will be a good defender on the NBA level. If he truly believes that than I see virtually no chance that they either trade the pick or draft anyone else.

There is really only one player you consider in trade then and that’s AD.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is really only one player you consider in trade then and that’s AD.

I'd throw Giannis in there too. Dude's a 6'11 BEAST averaging 27/10/5 at age 23. He's pretty damn filthy.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I'd throw Giannis in there too. Dude's a 6'11 BEAST averaging 27/10/5 at age 23. He's pretty damn filthy.

I made the mistake of saying only for AD. You definitely do it for Giannis as well. I think that is it though

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I made the mistake of saying only for AD. You definitely do it for Giannis as well. I think that is it though

You're clearly all forgetting about Kyle Kuzma. Ask any Lakers fan. He's worth the #1 pick and more.

 

[Hoop Head]

You're clearly all forgetting about Kyle Kuzma. Ask any Lakers fan. He's worth the #1 pick and more.

They've slowed down on the Kuzma hype for a brief period, only because they're going to sign Lebron, Paul George, and Cousins. When that doesn't happen, because their front office knows it's not smart to waste that much money on someone who vanishes in the playoffs like George, is as old as Lebron, and has Cousins injury history they'll all get back on Team Kuzma. At least that's where they'll be until they start hyping up the free agents in 2019 that are locks to sign there like Klay and Kemba.

Laker fans are worse than Lebron fans. Lebron fans are annoying but at least he's at his peak and doesn't show signs of slowing down. Lakers fans are convinced because they are the "Lakers" they can and will sign any and every player they want, salary cap be damned. It's great to see the mess they get left with after hyping up All-NBA talent and when the season starts they'll be talking about how Brook Lopez will return to All-Star form and Luol Deng will be a lockdown defender that teams will be fighting each other to trade for by the deadline.

 

[Ronin]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1539...ayton-is-a-once-in-a-lifetime-type-of-player/

 

[JCSunsfan]

I made the mistake of saying only for AD. You definitely do it for Giannis as well. I think that is it though

I am not even sure I do it for Giannis. He has not proven he can carry a team like AD.

Frankly, I just want Ayton. I want to draft the number 1 player in what everyone is calling the best draft in maybe several decades. I do not want to go all of the sudden go conservative and trade for a "sure thing." I want the superstar. I do not want to be speculative in the draft or try to get cute. I do not want to trade down like Ainge did last year.

Ayton is a generational big. His college numbers are better than KAT. They are better than AD (except for the blocks). But remember the difference in philosophies of the coaches. Calipari forces his big men to be big men only. He would rarely let them step out and shoot. He forced them to play D near the hoop and block shots. Miller did just the opposite with Ayton. Ayton played D on the perimeter primarily.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Laker fans are worse than Lebron fans.

I know we're required to hate Lakers and by extension, Laker fans but I think we're all pretty much the same. We may not be quite as bad as Lebron fans or Lakers fans but it's pure luck, pure bad luck. Had we enjoyed the recent success of the Cavs or decades long success of the Lakers, we'd be right there with them.

Just read through this thread and tell me we're all that different.

 

[Hoop Head]

I know we're required to hate Lakers and by extension, Laker fans but I think we're all pretty much the same. We may not be quite as bad as Lebron fans or Lakers fans but it's pure luck, pure bad luck. Had we enjoyed the recent success of the Cavs or decades long success of the Lakers, we'd be right there with them.

Just read through this thread and tell me we're all that different.

I can see your point but I disagree when it comes to comparing Suns fans to Lakers fans. There are a couple other teams up there right now in that their fans are intolerable but for the most part there is good reason for their arrogance. Like Warriors fans are cocky and that makes sense, they are the best team in the NBA right now and they signed an MVP last summer. All of their core players are locked in for 2 more years, at least. Boston fans are the more tolerable version of Lakers fans but that's only because their team is loaded and able to back up the smack that their fans talk. They have won the most titles in NBA history and have a ridiculously bright future. They have Ainge running things and with how he's managed them over the last 5-6 years there is no reason to think they won't be contenders for the next decade.

Suns fans now are giddy because luck FINALLY shined our way. Before the lottery drawing even casual fans accepted we'd be drafting #4 and at best we'd sign an overpaid broken player like Cousins, who would never return to previous form. That's what the Suns do and have done over their last 50 years. Getting the #1 pick has started to spread an optimism that hasn't been present since Amare won Rookie of the Year. No one is fooling themselves that we'll sign max free agents or that we'll be playoff bound but we should finally start trending upwards.

Lakers fans never think they'll miss the playoffs. They were talking about IT getting them on a run for the 8th seed in February of this year. They're a storied franchise but they need to accept that their future looks a lot like the Knicks future. Knicks fans get it, they know they suck, but Lakers fans will never admit that. It would be admirable if it weren't so arrogant. They really are a different breed of fan. Even their knowledgable fans that get how the NBA works are delusional. The only other fanbase like the Lakers base are Cowboys fans. They live on past success, most of which happened before they could speak.

Lebron fans are bad but I think part of the reason some people look down on them is they have no loyalty to teams, only Lebron himself, and that isn't something that happened 20 years ago. If it did then it was never at this scale. He is great, there's no denying that, but there is sort of a prisoner of the moment thing happening because he's currently dominating. A lot of people that claim he's better than Jordan or the GOAT never watched Jordan so they want to believe they're seeing the best ever because to them, he is.

 

[Hoop Head]

Nobody gets bashed for not trading the #1 pick. Even if the player is a bust, no goes down in history for not trading it. Nobody looks back at Anthony Bennett being picked by the Cavs and say "Well they had an offer for _____ they should have taken." Busts happen, I'd be shocked if Ayton is a bust, but McD could down in history for being an idiot if Ayton turns into Hakeem or David Robinson and wins a title elsewhere.

 

[Ronin]

Paul Pierce on the jump just called Ayton a "workaholic." Paul Pierce also took a couple of minutes to praise Ayton.

I was eating at the time the segment came on so I missed a bunch of what was said.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Paul Pierce on the jump just called Ayton a "workaholic." Paul Pierce also took a couple of minutes to praise Ayton.

I was eating at the time the segment came on so I missed a bunch of what was said.

Music to my ears.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Paul Pierce on the jump just called Ayton a "workaholic." Paul Pierce also took a couple of minutes to praise Ayton.

I was eating at the time the segment came on so I missed a bunch of what was said.

For those interested, that same episode of The Jump will be aired again today at 3PM Pacific on ESPN News and again at Midnight (same network).