AZCentral: Suns unwilling to part with Amare or JJ for T-Mac

[Joe Mama]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0623mcgrady0623.html

Suns would trade Marion, pick, more for McGrady
Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 23, 2004 12:00 AM


Trade talks that would bring four-time All-Star and NBA scoring champion Tracy McGrady to Phoenix grew stronger Tuesday as Orlando's proposal to deal the guard to Houston faltered.

Phoenix is discussing a package that would include Shawn Marion, the No. 7 pick in Thursday's draft and possibly another player, according to a person familiar with the negotiations. Phoenix will not give up Amaré Stoudemire or Joe Johnson.

Phoenix's shot at McGrady appeared bleak when Orlando and Houston reportedly agreed to a seven-player deal that would have swapped McGrady and Rockets guard Steve Francis. But Orlando showed more interest in Phoenix's offerings after Francis' cold reaction and issues with his contract.



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If the Suns make the trade, they likely would want McGrady to yield his player option, which comes up after next season. McGrady, 25, still would make $32.6 million combined for the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons.

Phoenix traded for Antonio McDyess in 1997 and lost him after one season when he signed as a free agent with Denver.

Orlando sought trade offers when McGrady said he would opt out of his seven-year, $93 million deal if the Magic did not jump from last season's NBA cellar.

Houston, Indiana and Phoenix are believed to be the strongest bidders.

If Phoenix and Orlando do not make a trade, the Suns are talking about a swap of first-round picks with Cleveland. That would drop the Suns to No. 10 in exchange for other considerations.

Reporter Bob Young contributed to this article.

 

[Joe Mama]

That's very interesting. I've been saying for a while now that I don't believe the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give them Shawn Marion, JJ, and the draft pick. Most interesting is the idea that the Phoenix Suns would not require an extension. I'm not sure how I really feel about that. It's risky because he could leave after two seasons, but it also is safer for the Suns if they are worried about his health.

If the Phoenix Suns trade down it could be that they figure they can still get one of the guys they really like get at #10. One of the following players is sure to be on the board. I think it would be a good move, especially if they are convinced that Gordon and Iguodala will be of the board at #7.

Josh Smith
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Josh Childress
Luke Jackson
Pavel (this is for you Chris)

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

It would suck big time if the deal fell through because the Suns don't want to part with JJ rather than #7.

TMac+#7 > Marion+Johson still

 

[Joe Mama]

It would suck big time if the deal fell through because the Suns don't want to part with JJ rather than #7.

TMac+#7 > Marion+Johson still

what if the Phoenix Suns are holding out with regards to JJ, so they can get the #7 draft pick out of the deal? I mean who knows what is really going on behind the scenes.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

I guess we will after the draft because of the Barbosa deal with San Antonio we won't be able to trade #7 until after we made the pick...

If Iguodala or Smith are available...sacrifice JJ...

I would be afraid he would go back in his shell anyway if we got TMac.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

That's very interesting. I've been saying for a while now that I don't believe the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give them Shawn Marion, JJ, and the draft pick. Most interesting is the idea that the Phoenix Suns would not require an extension. I'm not sure how I really feel about that. It's risky because he could leave after two seasons, but it also is safer for the Suns if they are worried about his health.

If the Phoenix Suns trade down it could be that they figure they can still get one of the guys they really like get at #10. One of the following players is sure to be on the board. I think it would be a good move, especially if they are convinced that Gordon and Iguodala will be of the board at #7.

Josh Smith
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Josh Childress
Luke Jackson
Pavel (this is for you Chris)

Joe Mama

I'm not too concerned as to whether or not he would resign. If he plays in Phx for 2 years, he might actually like the team/city. Also, if he is intent on leaving after two years, could the Suns trade him away for other players? Or maybe resign him then trade him?

 

[scotsman13]

I guess we will after the draft because of the Barbosa deal with San Antonio we won't be able to trade #7 until after we made the pick...

If Iguodala or Smith are available...sacrifice JJ...

I would be afraid he would go back in his shell anyway if we got TMac.

personally i am more afraid of tmac doing what he did to the magic last year. quitting on the team and thinking that he is only in it for personal honors. i am still trying to understand what you tmac fans think he can bring to this team that we need?

scoring? scoring wasnt our problem for most of last year?

defense? tmac isnt even as good of a defender as jj.

leadership? yea he did a good job leading the magic to 18 wins last year. one of the biggest problems that doc rivers had with tmac is that he wanted him to take a bigger leadership role on the team and tmac wouldnt do it.

rebounding? in replacing marion and jj the suns lose the single best rebounding small forward in the nba and a good rebounding 2 guard. this means that the suns who were already not rebounding well will be rebouding even less.

health? jj played in every game last year, marion only missed a couple, and tmac missed 15 games because of a bad back.

star power? while tmac did lead the nba in scoring last year and was on the allstar team, but one of the best judges of star power in the nba is how many times you go to the line. in that tmac doesnt even hold up to amare. amare went to the line 10.31 times per game last year, tmac on the when to the line 8.97 last year. so by the looks of it we do have a star in amare that is even bigger then tmac.

it all comes down to would adding tmac carry this team to a championship? NO, there is no question that just matching stars will lead to a championship. ask barkley and malone, they found out the hard way. tmac may take us back into the playoffs next year but i believe that we'll be there next year anyway. tmac wont make the teams defense better just by being on the team. he wont get more steals or rebounds, the refs wont respect this team more then before. so it all comes down to is having a player that will give you 28 ppg, 6.4 rpg, and 4 apg better then having 2 player will give you 35.7 ppg, 13.2 rpg, and 5.3 apg? i say no it isnt.

 

[F-Dog]

If the Phoenix Suns trade down it could be that they figure they can still get one of the guys they really like get at #10. One of the following players is sure to be on the board. I think it would be a good move, especially if they are convinced that Gordon and Iguodala will be of the board at #7.

Josh Smith
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Josh Childress
Luke Jackson
Pavel (this is for you Chris)

Joe Mama

Here's my thought:

There are four 'locks' to be gone by the time the Suns pick--Okafor, Howard, Deng, and Ben Gordon (Gordon must think he's a lock, at least, and I'm inclined to believe him).

That leaves Shaun Livingston, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Devin Harris, and Jameer Nelson. Two of those players will be gone when the Suns pick.

The fact that the Suns are talking with Cleveland at all suggests to me that the #2 or #3 player on the Suns' board is not one of those five players. There's no point in screwing around trying to trade down three spots in the draft unless they're 99% sure their guy won't be taken.

The 'next tier' of guys IMO is Childress, Luke Jackson, Podkolzine, and Biedrins.

 

[devilalum]

If the Phoenix Suns trade down it could be that they figure they can still get one of the guys they really like get at #10. One of the following players is sure to be on the board. I think it would be a good move, especially if they are convinced that Gordon and Iguodala will be of the board at #7.

Josh Smith
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Josh Childress
Luke Jackson
Pavel (this is for you Chris)

Joe Mama

If they trade down they're going for Jackson.
He'd be a classic Suns pick.

Is there any team over the last 35 years that has had more good white guards than the Suns?

 

[slinslin]

They could also expect Nelson or Harris to drop to #10.

Maybe even Josh Smith.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

That's very interesting. I've been saying for a while now that I don't believe the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give them Shawn Marion, JJ, and the draft pick. Most interesting is the idea that the Phoenix Suns would not require an extension. I'm not sure how I really feel about that. It's risky because he could leave after two seasons, but it also is safer for the Suns if they are worried about his health.

I doubt TMac would sign an extension anywhere. Just like with Kobe, he would be better off to opt out then resign. By having him waive his opt out, you are right, the suns get to look at his health and chemistry before committing long term. Personally, I like that approach better.

 

[slinslin]

Interessting scenario.

Would Indiana take Joe Johnson, Howard Eisley and #7 for Ron Artest and Fred Jones? Indiana has a 1.8M$ or so trade exemption from the expansion draft. We actually get 1.8M$ capspace more.

Send Ron Artest and Shawn Marion to Orlando for Drew Gooden and Tracy McGrady. We take on about 800k$ salaries I think.


So afterall we end up with Gooden, TMac, Fred Jones and 1M$ more capspace for Marion, Johnson and #7.

 

[Quagmire]

Don't forget about Biedrins. A couple of weeks ago we thought that the Wizards had him at #5. A defensive big man is still one of our needs. Still, I prefer to trade down or pick someone for Orlando to complete the trade for T-Mac!

 

[Biclops]

If we do trade down with Cleveland...

I wonder what other compensation we are going to get?


1. Take Eisley's contract and we get another player back (highly unlikely)

2. Future first round pick (we just got rid of one of their old picks, will they
give us another first round pick with alot of restrictions)

3. Give us second rounder for this years and next year

4. Hehe... Give us Carlos Boozer


That is all I can think of right now

Anyone else know wondering what we could get out of this?

 

[JCSunsfan]

It would probably be something like Eisley and the #7 for the #10.

Which would actually be a very good trade. Eisley might actually contribute in Cleveland. I don't know if they could absorb the cap $ though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

so it all comes down to is having a player that will give you 28 ppg, 6.4 rpg, and 4 apg better then having 2 player will give you 35.7 ppg, 13.2 rpg, and 5.3 apg? i say no it isnt.

this is kind of a dumb statement 'cuz it assumes that tmac will have to play two positions. let's assume that whomever starts w/ tmac as a replacement for either marion or jj averages sumpin' like 10/5/3. that means, added to tmac, their numbers are 38/11.4/7. hmm, 2.3 pts better, 1.rebs worse, and 1.7 assists better. makes your argument a lot weaker. nice try playing w/ stats though.

what you fail to recognize also is that tmac will demand double teaming, thereby further freeing up amare. no one will double team marion or jj.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If they trade down they're going for Jackson.
He'd be a classic Suns pick.

Is there any team over the last 35 years that has had more good white guards than the Suns?

true dat:

bratz
macy
westy
horny
thunder
ainge
sexy rex
and their hopin' casey

 

[George O'Brien]

It would probably be something like Eisley and the #7 for the #10.

Which would actually be a very good trade. Eisley might actually contribute in Cleveland. I don't know if they could absorb the cap $ though.

Cleveland will be at $38 million, which may or may not be enough to aborb Eisley. It would probably mean taking someone Kendrick Brown ($2.3 million), who becomes an RFA next summer. The Cavs would have to want to move up a lot.

 

[slinslin]

Cleveland will be at $38 million, which may or may not be enough to aborb Eisley. It would probably mean taking someone Kendrick Brown ($2.3 million), who becomes an RFA next summer. The Cavs would have to want to move up a lot.

I would think that they have picked up their team option on Jeff McInnis. That puts them at over 42M$

I mean it would still be awesome if we could get #10 and Diop or Brown for #7 and Eisley.
Trade #10 to Indiana , Chandler to Phoenix and Harrington to Chicago.

 

[Joe Mama]

It would probably be something like Eisley and the #7 for the #10.

Which would actually be a very good trade. Eisley might actually contribute in Cleveland. I don't know if they could absorb the cap $ though.

I respectfully disagree that there is any chance at all of this happening. If the Phoenix Suns are going to rid themselves of Howard Eiseley at the very, very least is going to cost them the draft pick. They are not going to get anything good in return. The Cleveland Cavaliers already have a point guard they don't want making less money than Howard Eiseley in Ollie. There's no way they're going to take Howard Eiseley and his bad contract just to move up three spots in the draft.

I think Howard Eiseley is going to be with this Phoenix Suns team next season unless he is needed to make a bigger trade work kind of like Luc Longley.

Joe Mama

 

[B-Dogg]

If Boston is willing to give up Pierce I think he would be a better addition to the Suns than McGrady... for a couple of reasons. First this team is going to be built around Amare I think Pierce would adjust to that alot better than McGrady.... second Pierce would cost us alot less than McGrady and provide the same level of player... I think he could be had for Marion straight up or even Marion plus Casey... you know Ainge would love to have Casey... I think that would be a much better team than what McGrady would cost us and in turn bring to the Suns...

Lampe
Amare
Pierce
Johnson
FA/#7/Barbosa

Thats a hell of a team in my opinion with parts that would work well together...

 

[Joe Mama]

I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I would rather have Paul Pierce than Tracy McGrady. T-Mac has really turned me off in the last few weeks.

There's no way the Boston Celtics would take Shawn Marion straight up for him though. It would require at least the #7 draft pick as well as Marion to get him.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaz]

I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I would rather have Paul Pierce than Tracy McGrady. T-Mac has really turned me off in the last few weeks.

There's no way the Boston Celtics would take Shawn Marion straight up for him though. It would require at least the #7 draft pick as well as Marion to get him.

Joe Mama

I'll second that.

 

[hcsilla]

There's no way the Boston Celtics would take Shawn Marion straight up for him though. It would require at least the #7 draft pick as well as Marion to get him.

Joe Mama

If that would be the price of Paul Pierce, I would say: do it!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Yuo have got to be kidding me.

Why would Pierce defer more than TMac? Both players have been the unquestioned star of their teams for a long time now.

Pierce is NOT on the same level as TMac. He is on the same level as Marbury, Frances ect. ect. He is a second level star.

Why would Ainge love to have casey? No one would "love" to have Casey.


If it would cost the suns the #7 and Marion for Pierce, and it would cost Marion JJ and the #7 for TMac, McGrady is the obviosu choice. No one knows what kind of player JJ will be as the third option (which he would be in both scenarios). Might as well dump him to get the much better player.