AZCentral: Suns unwilling to part with Amare or JJ for T-Mac

[scotsman13]

this is kind of a dumb statement 'cuz it assumes that tmac will have to play two positions. let's assume that whomever starts w/ tmac as a replacement for either marion or jj averages sumpin' like 10/5/3. that means, added to tmac, their numbers are 38/11.4/7. hmm, 2.3 pts better, 1.rebs worse, and 1.7 assists better. makes your argument a lot weaker. nice try playing w/ stats though.

what you fail to recognize also is that tmac will demand double teaming, thereby further freeing up amare. no one will double team marion or jj.

i am sorry. you fail to see that amare will draw the double teams that way freeing up jj or marion. you are giving up 2 very productive players to get tmac.

tmac or kobe wont be the heart of this team. amare will. offense goes inside out, not outside in, when you have a post player like amare. so you are going to trading role players (that fill the role on on this team well) for a player that doesnt do anything but score well and in that he will take second place to amare.

 

[slinslin]

Pierce isn't nearly the playmaker McGrady is.
Also Pierce is only 6'6-6'7 while McGrady is 6'8-6'9. And Pierce is older as well.

I don't really want Pierce unless Ainge swaps him for Marion straight up.

 

[AnotherHOMER]

...sacrifice JJ...

I would be afraid he would go back in his shell anyway if we got TMac.

GREAT POINT!!!!!!

 

[F-Dog]

If that would be the price of Paul Pierce, I would say: do it!

I would say, no thanks!

The only thing PP has on Marion is that he can create his own shot, which is an overrated skill for a perimeter player anyway, and on the Suns it will be nearly redundant, thanks to Amare, Joe Johnson, and Vujanic or the #7 PG.

McGrady is on a whole other level as far as talent goes, which is why it might be worth the risk of damaging the team's chemistry to bring him in. When you start moving down the list of swingmen, though, you get to the point where you're just trading for the sake of trading.

 

[B-Dogg]

Yuo have got to be kidding me.

Why would Pierce defer more than TMac? Both players have been the unquestioned star of their teams for a long time now.

Pierce is NOT on the same level as TMac. He is on the same level as Marbury, Frances ect. ect. He is a second level star.

Why would Ainge love to have casey? No one would "love" to have Casey.


If it would cost the suns the #7 and Marion for Pierce, and it would cost Marion JJ and the #7 for TMac, McGrady is the obviosu choice. No one knows what kind of player JJ will be as the third option (which he would be in both scenarios). Might as well dump him to get the much better player.

I disagree completely, Boston had a similar talent level to Orlando and Finished with a much better record. I believe Pierce is on the same level as McGrady, he is the leagues leading scoring and also leads the league in shots taken. And Ainge loves the white guy that can shoot and thats exactly what Casey is. And if it takes Marion and the #7 then pull the trigger. This team needs to be built around Amare, you allways build around the big unless you have Jordan, which McGrady is not...

 

[Biclops]

Just for fun but this trade may work after Marion's BYC status is gone...

Marion
Eisley
#7 Pick

for

Pierce
Stewart
#15 OR #25 Pick

Hopefully this works under the salary cap

If this works our lineup would look like this

PG: Barbosa
SG: Pierce (I think he would be a better fit here considering his height)
SF: Johnson (Can anyone say Point-Foward?)
PF: Amare
C: Lampe or Dice (if we resign him)

This is just for fun... what do you guys think?

 

[sunsfn]

In watching Pierce and McGrady, I have seen Pierce make many many more 4th quarter critcal shots than McGrady.

At this point I do not think there is that much difference and Pierce has alway been a clutch player. When the game is on the line he comes through.

He is a leader on his team and the Celtics made the playoffs this year with almost as bad a team as Orlando.
Pierce had Blount which gives him an edge, but not much more.

I realize that McGrady is younger and that is important to build this team, but McGrady has more personal problems than Pierce by far. I do not feel good so I am going to sit out the last 10 games, I will only sign an extension with the Rockets, etc.

If the suns trade for McGrady and do not give up much I will be very happy, but getting Pierce is certainly a good trade for the suns.

 

[Joe Mama]

I would say, no thanks!

The only thing PP has on Marion is that he can create his own shot, which is an overrated skill for a perimeter player anyway, and on the Suns it will be nearly redundant, thanks to Amare, Joe Johnson, and Vujanic or the #7 PG.

I really think that if creating his own shot was an overrated skill the Phoenix Suns wouldn't even be shopping or thinking about trading Shawn Marion.

There's no doubt that Tracy McGrady is a more talented player than Paul Pierce. PP is in that second-tier as far as talent, but he has much more heart than McGrady. He's also healthier, and you don't have to worry about him opting out of his contract next year. He is in the same situation as McGrady without the option to opt out next year.

Joe Mama

 

[B-Dogg]

This is the supposed deal for Pierce right now.

The Bulls and the Boston Celtics have discussed a trade that would send three-time all-star Paul Pierce to the Bulls for Tyson Chandler, the No. 3 pick in Thursday's NBA draft and another player to even out salaries, according to a source close to the Bulls.

If such a trade occurs, Scottie Pippen, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams would all work as the additional player. One theory has Boston eyeing Connecticut guard Ben Gordon with the third pick.

 

[F-Dog]

I really think that if creating his own shot was an overrated skill the Phoenix Suns wouldn't even be shopping or thinking about trading Shawn Marion.

There's no doubt that Tracy McGrady is a more talented player than Paul Pierce. PP is in that second-tier as far as talent, but he has much more heart than McGrady. He's also healthier, and you don't have to worry about him opting out of his contract next year. He is in the same situation as McGrady without the option to opt out next year.

Joe Mama

Well, they don't seem to be talking about shopping Marion and the #7 for PP.

I think that an NBA team only needs 1 1/2 perimeter guys who can create their own shot, which is what Detroit and the Lakers had. The Suns already have that, so I don't see any desperate need to trade Marion for a player who'll need more touches.

 

[Skkorpion]

Under the Colangelos, the Suns have a recent history of not having patience with their young players and turning the roster over too much.

I'd rather keep Marion, keep the #7, and go from there. I guess that's defeatest but I don't see McGrady or Pierce solving our defensive problems or making our miserable center position better.

Any time the Suns start talking trade, I start cringing.

 

[slinslin]

When was the last time you remember us having 20M$ caproom or so?

With that room we can acquire the players needed around TMac and Amare.

Don't just look at FAs. Caproom is so valueable today that you can get good players and picks for it.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I disagree completely, Boston had a similar talent level to Orlando and Finished with a much better record. I believe Pierce is on the same level as McGrady, he is the leagues leading scoring and also leads the league in shots taken. And Ainge loves the white guy that can shoot and thats exactly what Casey is. And if it takes Marion and the #7 then pull the trigger. This team needs to be built around Amare, you allways build around the big unless you have Jordan, which McGrady is not...

So wait, if Pierce is on the same level as TMAC, wouldn't he be the center of the team? If you want the team to be built around Amare, by your assesment of talen, you have the EXACT SAME problem with both players.


The Celtics have wayyy more talent than the Magic. Ricky Davis, Jiri Welsh, Mark Blount beat the Magic complimentary players any day. The Magic fielded by far the worst starting lineup in the league (at least until the Hawks traded their team).


Why does Ainge love "the white guy that can shoot". That is a completely unfounded statement.

 

[Joe Mama]

When was the last time you remember us having 20M$ caproom or so?

With that room we can acquire the players needed around TMac and Amare.

Don't just look at FAs. Caproom is so valueable today that you can get good players and picks for it.

$20 million? Guess again. It's about $14.5 million. These Howard Eiseley fantasy deals are borderline ridiculous.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

$20 million? Guess again. It's about $14.5 million. These Howard Eiseley fantasy deals are borderline ridiculous.

Joe Mama

The cap will be at 46-48M$.

The Suns have roughly 28M$ tied up right now.

If they trade Marion, JJ and #7 for TMac add 2M$ to our caproom immediately because we don't have to pay our first round pick.

46-48M$ minues 28M$ = 18-20M$ .......

 

[Joe Mama]

The cap will be at 46-48M$.

The Suns have roughly 28M$ tied up right now.

If they trade Marion, JJ and #7 for TMac add 2M$ to our caproom immediately because we don't have to pay our first round pick.

46-48M$ minues 28M$ = 18-20M$ .......

the salary cap is not expected to be at $46-48 million. It's expected to stay the same or actually go down because the league revenue did not increase as expected. It should be about $43 million. With McGrady and without Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and the draft pick the Phoenix Suns team salary will be $28.8 million. That leaves them with a little over $14 million to spend in free agency.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

David Stern was interviewed during the NBA finals and said that revenue, ratings and attendace was up.

I doubt your sources are right....

 

[Joe Mama]

David Stern was interviewed during the NBA finals and said that revenue, ratings and attendace was up.

I doubt your sources are right....

It was ESPN Insider about 1-2 months ago. They said that the people who basically, with the numbers that the salary cap and luxury tax are based upon said that revenue was not up this season. It was either that or they projected that it would not go up next season. Anyhow, the bottom line was that the salary cap is not expected to increase and they will likely be a luxury tax again next season. I have yet to see anyone anywhere predict that the salary cap is going to be $48 million. The most I've seen predicted is $47 million, and that was some time ago.

I hope you are right. I really do. But I'll bet you $20 right now that the salary cap for next season is not over $45 million.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

But I'll bet you $20 right now that the salary cap for next season is not over $45 million.

Don't do it slinslin! Joe Mama has an uncanny way of winning impossible bets.

(By the way, Joe Mama, PM me so we can figure out how to settle.)

 

[Chaplin]

It was ESPN Insider about 1-2 months ago. They said that the people who basically, with the numbers that the salary cap and luxury tax are based upon said that revenue was not up this season. It was either that or they projected that it would not go up next season. Anyhow, the bottom line was that the salary cap is not expected to increase and they will likely be a luxury tax again next season. I have yet to see anyone anywhere predict that the salary cap is going to be $48 million. The most I've seen predicted is $47 million, and that was some time ago.

I hope you are right. I really do. But I'll bet you $20 right now that the salary cap for next season is not over $45 million.

Joe Mama

I finally figured it out! All this negativity that's been complained about is coming from the moderator! My God, how did we miss it??

 

[Joe Mama]

I finally figured it out! All this negativity that's been complained about is coming from the moderator! My God, how did we miss it??

don't laugh. I know many of you believe that is true. I know you are joking, but there are many here who probably believe that is negativity. It's not. It's objectivity. If someone argues I'm being negative I say it's because guys like slin get overly excited and are far too optimistic.

A trade like this would probably get the Valley excited about Phoenix Suns basketball for at least a while. It would probably sell more season tickets next year. I keep hearing people on the radio and on the Internet comparing this to the Charles Barkley deal. It's not even close. In that deal the Phoenix Suns gave up Horny and a few other players for a top-five player. There were no questions about Barkley's contract. There were no questions about his heart although his dedication had been questioned. Most importantly they were left with a great team to go with Barkley. Barkley also really did not have the injury questions that McGrady has. In this deal the Phoenix Suns far, far more to get McGrady.

After the Barkley trade was made the Phoenix Suns were the immediate favorites to win the Western Conference. That would not even be close to the case with this McGrady trade. We would all still be left just praying that they can do something great in free agency to put a team around the two stars.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

I haven't really said all that much about the specifics of the McGrady trade. That said, I would love to have him, but I am against the current speculation of Marion, JJ AND the #7. We'll have to see what happens.

 

[Evil Ash]

After the Barkley trade was made the Phoenix Suns were the immediate favorites to win the Western Conference. That would not even be close to the case with this McGrady trade. We would all still be left just praying that they can do something great in free agency to put a team around the two stars.

Joe Mama

If we don't make this deal we are still hoping JJ further develops (which isn't a sure thing), the #7 pick in the draft is well worth keeping and that we get pieces to build around the big 3. So no matter what we are still hoping for FAs that serve as role players.

That point seems rather moot

 

[Evil Ash]

I haven't really said all that much about the specifics of the McGrady trade. That said, I would love to have him, but I am against the current speculation of Marion, JJ AND the #7. We'll have to see what happens.

We should know something by tomorrow since our deal includes the draft pick. So if we make an unusual pick its because we are drafting for Orlando.

Who knows at this point though?

 

[slinslin]

Too bad Orlando would also look for a PG.

Maybe the deal hinges on wether Phoenix gets a PG at #7 they think is better than Barbosa?

Lets say Gordon is on the board. Phoenix trade Marion, Johnson and Barbosa for TMac.
Lets say Gordon isn't Phoenix trades Marion, Johnson and #7.

Colangelo talking about to PG at #7 being better than Leandro was probably negotiating tactics.