BA&SK's 5 Drafts

Mitch

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Bold Red---VALUE picks
Bold Blue---Early Value, but unsustained
Bold Black---Bust (To Date)
Bold Orange---Marginal Value in Terms of Round Taken and/or Injuries


2013:

1. G Jonathan Cooper
2. LB Kevin Minter
3. S Tyrann Mathieu
4. DE Alex Okafor
4. G Earl Watford
5. RB Stepfan Taylor

6. WR Brian Swope
6. RB Andre Ellington
7. TE D.J. Jefferson


2014:

1. LB Deone Bucannon
2. TE Troy Niklas
3. DE Kareem Martin

3. WR John Brown
4. QB Logan Thomas
5. DT Ed Stinson
6. QB Carson Palmer*
7. WR Walter Powell

2015:

1. T D.J. Humphries
2. DE Markus Golden
3. RB David Johnson

4. DT Rodney Gunter
5. LB Shaq Riddick
5. WR J.J. Nelson
7. TE Gerald Christian

2016:

1. DE Robert Nkemdiche
2. OLB Chandler Jones*
3. CB Brandon Williams
4. C Evan Boehm
5. S Marqui Christian
5. G Cole Toner
6. S Harlan Miller

2017:

1. LB Haason Reddick
2. S Budda Baker
3. WR Chad Williams
4. G Dorian Johnson
5. T Will Holden
5. RB T.J. Logan
6. S Rudy Ford

Grades By Position:

QB: F (Thomas)
RB: B+ (Taylor, Ellington, Johnson, Logan)
WR: D+ (Swope, Powell, Brown, Nelson, Williams)
TE: F (Jefferson, Niklas, Christian)
OL: F (Cooper, Watford, Humphries, Boehm, Toner, Johnson, Holden)

Offensive Player Development Grade: D-

DT: F (Stinson, Gunter, Nkemdiche)
OLB: B (Okafor, Martin, Golden, Riddick, Reddick)
ILB: C (Minter, Bucannon)
CB: F (Williams)
S: B+ (Mathieu, Christian, Miller, Baker, Ford)

Defensive Player Development Grade: C-

Overall Draft Pick Development Grade: D+

Position Coaches With Plus Development of Draft Picks: RB, OLB, S
Postion Coaches With Subpar Development of Draft Picks: QB, WR, TE, OL, DT, ILB, CB


Hard to Fathom But True:

* Only 1 QB and 1 CB drafted in 5 years.

* The 1 CB drafted in 5 years (B. Williams) had only 1 year of college experience playing CB.


* 7 OL Drafted in 5 years and right now only one figures to start next year: D.J. Humphries (if healthy).

* Only Cardinals' Draft Picks in Last 5 Years (37 picks) Making Positive, Week-to-Week Contributions This Season:

1. S Tyrann Mathieu
2. S Budda Baker



 
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football karma

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too hard on Deone Buccanon

playing through an ankle injury this year that many have said takes a year before it feels 100% again

Deone might not be a all pro, but i think the Cardinals got reasonable value from the pick
 

AZfaninMN

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Jonathan cooper is a starter in Dallas, so I wouldn’t say he’s a bust.

Anyone taken after the 5th round isn’t a bust because if you get production out of them at all they’re a success.

Not sure how chad Williams and T.J. Logan gave marginal value by these terms when Logan hasn’t played an nfl game and Chad Williams has been inactive most of the season.

Lastly, if not for injury I’d say golden and Johnson would be contributing week to week. Bucc is a starter and has been every year in his nfl career, as was/is Kevin minter.

What Keim lacks in the draft, I believe he makes up for in FA. He’s only drafted 1 CB and 1 QB, but he brought in CP3 and Drew Stanton when they got in office. He brought in Cro and Tramon Williams on one year deals and proving they still got it. They traded and got the DPOY, imo, in CJ. They year was the worst team Keim put on the field because of age. I think he realized that and will make the changes this offseason.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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too hard on Deone Buccanon

playing through an ankle injury this year that many have said takes a year before it feels 100% again

Deone might not be a all pro, but i think the Cardinals got reasonable value from the pick

Two years of struggling in a row for Bucannon. He has not gotten better, like so many of the draft picks in the BASK era.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Jonathan cooper is a starter in Dallas, so I wouldn’t say he’s a bust.

Anyone taken after the 5th round isn’t a bust because if you get production out of them at all they’re a success.

Not sure how chad Williams and T.J. Logan gave marginal value by these terms when Logan hasn’t played an nfl game and Chad Williams has been inactive most of the season.

Lastly, if not for injury I’d say golden and Johnson would be contributing week to week. Bucc is a starter and has been every year in his nfl career, as was/is Kevin minter.

What Keim lacks in the draft, I believe he makes up for in FA. He’s only drafted 1 CB and 1 QB, but he brought in CP3 and Drew Stanton when they got in office. He brought in Cro and Tramon Williams on one year deals and proving they still got it. They traded and got the DPOY, imo, in CJ. They year was the worst team Keim put on the field because of age. I think he realized that and will make the changes this offseason.

Cooper was a bust in AZ. When he finally got his chance to start, the coaches benched him because he couldn't handle week to week changes in game plans.

Bold Orange includes Injuries---did you miss that? Chad Williams has been making marginal contributions the past few weeks. Not sure why you question that.

Imo, no excuses for drafting only 1 CB in 5 years, FA signings or not. We are still searching for a long term answer at RCB.

Yes, 5th rounders can be hit or miss. But, it was disappointing that we got so little from Stinton, Riddick, M. Christian and Toner.
 

Dback Jon

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Two years of struggling in a row for Bucannon. He has not gotten better, like so many of the draft picks in the BASK era.


So is that drafting, or coaching (or failing to understand that our coaching staff needs NFL ready players, not projects).


Maybe trading more picks for vets (like the Chandler Jones trade) is the ticket.


Hell, we could have traded our 2016 and 2017 firsts (plus other picks) to Cleveland to get Wentz.
 
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Mitch

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So is that drafting, or coaching (or failing to understand that our coaching staff needs NFL ready players, not projects).


Maybe trading more picks for vets (like the Chandler Jones trade) is the ticket.


Hell, we could have traded our 2016 and 2017 firsts (plus other picks) to Cleveland to get Wentz.

Jon---

I say coaching because Deone Bucannon was a SS converted to ILB, and in trying to get bigger to try to handle the physical aspects of ILB play, he's lost some flexibility and he's become top heavy. He lunges now at tackles instead of running through the RB.

I am with you on trading picks for established players. The draft is such a crap shoot.
 

AZfaninMN

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Cooper was a bust in AZ. When he finally got his chance to start, the coaches benched him because he couldn't handle week to week changes in game plans.

Bold Orange includes Injuries---did you miss that? Chad Williams has been making marginal contributions the past few weeks. Not sure why you question that.

Imo, no excuses for drafting only 1 CB in 5 years, FA signings or not. We are still searching for a long term answer at RCB.

Yes, 5th rounders can be hit or miss. But, it was disappointing that we got so little from Stinton, Riddick, M. Christian and Toner.
I did miss the injury portion. Chad Williams hasn’t made any contributions these past couple of weeks minus his 30 yard rush a couple weeks ago. I have hope he can develop in time, but Kevin minter, who started every year at ILB for us, is in the same category while being taken a round later.

I agree, I’ve been asking for us to take a cb or a qb in the draft for years, but if they’re taking BPA I don’t mind them not taking one and filling the need in FA. In the past 3 drafts, there has only been 3 CBs taken that have made a pro bowl and all were taken before our pick. Our RCB position would still be an issue and we probably wouldn’t have picked up TW.
 

oaken1

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Jon---

I say coaching because Deone Bucannon was a SS converted to ILB, and in trying to get bigger to try to handle the physical aspects of ILB play, he's lost some flexibility and he's become top heavy. He lunges now at tackles instead of running through the RB.

I am with you on trading picks for established players. The draft is such a crap shoot.
sadly...we have drafted decent oline talent but they got worse the longer they were here... Watford for example was much better when he was a rookie than he is now.
Too often we have seen the oline suck for the first half of the season and then show signs of gelling around december...when they should have been that way all along.
Our oline issues fall directly in the lap of harold goodwin. dude ruins linemen
 
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Mitch

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I may have been too hard on Minter, AZMF. I gave him marginal value based on his 2nd round selection.

Would you already term Chad Williams a bust?
 

AZfaninMN

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I may have been too hard on Minter, AZMF. I gave him marginal value based on his 2nd round selection.

Would you already term Chad Williams a bust?
No I’d chalk the guys we drafted this year, minus Budda, as we’ll see. Hard to judge a player after one year. Chad is a small school guy learning the position at a big league level. Just as riddick. If by year 2/3 it’s the same level of production then yes.
 

AZfaninMN

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The most troubling draft class was 2016s. I loved the Nkemdiche pick, but had to google the rest of our draft picks after that when we picked them. Shows what I know about Nkemdiche lol
 

Finito

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Holy crap give the SK drafting stuff a rest. How many times is this going to be discussed.

Mitch isn't a fan of the front office and this stuff is getting old.

Dude any production from a 4-7th rounder is a flat out bonus most of them are out of the league in 2-3 years.

Cooper brought us Chandler Jones so for that im grateful. Like I've said before on here that is probably the single worst draft ive ever seen the top of that draft turned out to be horrible and Cooper was the highest rates guard in 20 years hindsight is always 20/20. It was the right pick to make.

Kevin Minter pretty much had identical stats compared to Donta Hightower in NE yet people on here call Hightower great and Minter a bum. Minter was solid and that's a good thing

Some people live in a fantasy world where you draft 6 pro bowlers every draft.

Have you seen Mel Kiper and McShays draft records? They suck the draft is a flat out crap shoot and anyone who tells you different is full of it.

I'll sit back and wait for everyone to come on here saying of well I wanted(a player that succeeded)
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Holy crap give the SK drafting stuff a rest. How many times is this going to be discussed.

Mitch isn't a fan of the front office and this stuff is getting old.

Dude any production from a 4-7th rounder is a flat out bonus most of them are out of the league in 2-3 years.

Cooper brought us Chandler Jones so for that im grateful. Like I've said before on here that is probably the single worst draft ive ever seen the top of that draft turned out to be horrible and Cooper was the highest rates guard in 20 years hindsight is always 20/20. It was the right pick to make.

Kevin Minter pretty much had identical stats compared to Donta Hightower in NE yet people on here call Hightower great and Minter a bum. Minter was solid and that's a good thing

Some people live in a fantasy world where you draft 6 pro bowlers every draft.

Have you seen Mel Kiper and McShays draft records? They suck the draft is a flat out crap shoot and anyone who tells you different is full of it.

I'll sit back and wait for everyone to come on here saying of well I wanted(a player that succeeded)

Quit trolling my posts. I get it. You can't stand my posts...you try to trash everything I write...so do yourself and me the favor of not reading them. My thoughts are obviously not worth your time.
 

Finito

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Quit trolling my posts. I get it. You can't stand my posts...you try to trash everything I write...so do yourself and me the favor of not reading them. My thoughts are obviously not worth your time.

Nobody is trolling your post. Your just becoming a broken record these days dude. It's Patrick Peterson sucks and BASK needs to go. Yeah I get it we all get stuck on things from time to time but good lord guy.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Nobody is trolling your post. Your just becoming a broken record these days dude. It's Patrick Peterson sucks and BASK needs to go. Yeah I get it we all get stuck on things from time to time but good lord guy.

Thanks for the lecture. I get it. There are some other people on this board who still want to read my posts (and critique them respectfully). For their sake and mine please stop the ad hominems. Your constant vitriol is a form of harassment.
 

DVontel

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Holy crap give the SK drafting stuff a rest. How many times is this going to be discussed.

Mitch isn't a fan of the front office and this stuff is getting old.

Dude any production from a 4-7th rounder is a flat out bonus most of them are out of the league in 2-3 years.

Cooper brought us Chandler Jones so for that im grateful. Like I've said before on here that is probably the single worst draft ive ever seen the top of that draft turned out to be horrible and Cooper was the highest rates guard in 20 years hindsight is always 20/20. It was the right pick to make.

Kevin Minter pretty much had identical stats compared to Donta Hightower in NE yet people on here call Hightower great and Minter a bum. Minter was solid and that's a good thing

Some people live in a fantasy world where you draft 6 pro bowlers every draft.

Have you seen Mel Kiper and McShays draft records? They suck the draft is a flat out crap shoot and anyone who tells you different is full of it.

I'll sit back and wait for everyone to come on here saying of well I wanted(a player that succeeded)
Well Hightower could actually cover & stay on the field for all 3 downs unlike Minter who couldn’t cover a bed.
 

Finito

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Thanks for the lecture. I get it. There are some other people on this board who still want to read my posts (and critique them respectfully). For their sake and mine please stop the ad hominems. Your constant vitriol is a form of harassment.


You honestly feel your being harassed?
 

oaken1

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Yet there stats were pretty much identical
nobody around here appreciates a blue collar type player... they want stars, flash over substance, and weekly de-cleaters. The only way a blue collar type player is appreciated here is if he makes his name somewhere else and comes here in free agency.
 
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Mitch

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You honestly feel your being harassed?

Yes. Your contempt for me is obvious. I get it. You have plenty of company on the board---there's a whole host of posters here who repeatedly bash my posts and never ever say anything positive (you and I and practically everyone else know who they are). To me, one-sided vitriol is a form of harassment and a violation of the rules of the board. Then whenever I point that out, I get the old "you can't handle criticism" reply...which is a crock. Over the years, i have taken more sh*t and criticism than any poster on this board. Then I get statements like yours that "you think Peterson sucks" and "you hate BA&SK." I have never said either. Yes, I do not like PP's efforts in zones and tackling and punt returns...but I always have lauded him for his man cover skills and his philanthropy. I have never said he sucks. Yes, there are a number of things I don't like about BA's coaching style and his high risk offense...but i always recognize that he gave us three years of exciting football. I do not hate BA. Nor do I hate SK.

I am still posting here because I made a commitment to the posters on this board for whom I developed a mutual respect and appreciation. No one here agrees with everything i write, nor do I expect them to. I am an open book, I say whatever i feel (after considerable thought). But, in doing so, i always learn a lot from the healthy discussions we have on this board. Like they say...the truth is often somewhere in the middle---which is why healthy discussions and debates are so valuable.

I hope we can reach some sort of accord. The irony is, i bet if we ever had a couple of beers together, we'd be instant friends. In fact, if you are ever in the Boston area, beers are on me.
 
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