Babby and McDonough Presser

[elindholm]

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well

Actually I think this is one of your best posts. You did a great job of reminding me about some of Dragic's specific weaknesses, and the point about his struggles with the Gortat/Scola front court is well taken. Go to the dentist more often!

 

[Covert Rain]

Simple fact. The Suns want a two pg system. The trades of yesterday indicate that. They want either guard to be able to push and distribute on the break and run the half court.

Dragic didn't want to do that. 3rd team all-nba or not, he didn't buy in and he took it public. They said he did not buy in from the beginning. They told him to be patient and see. He went on to have a career year and the team succeeded. They assumed that would be enough for him and he would see how it could work. He still did not like it.

They HAD to move on. But it was completely unprofessional of Goran to do this the way he did, especially with so little time before the deadline.

Some good points but the fact they want a two PG system (sometimes 3) is not a simple fact. It's piss poor strategy and that is a a simple fact. Asking an all star PG who has proven himself at the PG position to play out of position and play a strategy that has never produced results with no end in site would drive many a player to jump ship.

The team is not on fire this season. They are 4 games above .500 ball at the halfway mark. I know some of you want to solely blame Goran but maybe just maybe average 20.3 and 16.7 is less important than the team winning, driving deep into playoffs and earning a chance at a title. We have seen guys put up huge #'s and be on some pretty god awful teams. Playing a 3 guard system has taken it's toll on the other side of the ball and everyone can see it.

If I see this as the team's direction plus playing me out of position? What is the point of me accepting a role that leads to nowhere? Again..not defending the way he handled it one bit. HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT but he isn't wrong about this front office.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Actually I think this is one of your best posts. You did a great job of reminding me about some of Dragic's specific weaknesses, and the point about his struggles with the Gortat/Scola front court is well taken. Go to the dentist more often!

Well, thanks I guess. I like morphine as much as the next guy but I'm going to have to pass on the dentist idea.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Let's revisit that point in a season or two. We wanted to play him at the point guard spot also but a full season of traditional basketball showcased his flaws. I think it's amazing how so many people here have forgotten how weak he was at really running an offense. He can pick and roll, he can drive and dish but he has tunnel vision, he's a mediocre passer, he (apparently) can't see the play developing in his mind and each year he gets a little worse at defending the position. Not because he's slowed down but because each year there are fewer and fewer Derek Fisher's, Jameer Nelson's, Andre Miller's etc.

This is the era of the quick point (read:scoring) guard. The changing game makes him a far better basketball player than he is a point guard. Jeff still wanted him to handle the ball, not stand in the corner and pout, because his two guard offense is based on the advantages the rules give to the perimeter ball handler. The defense has to play that man differently than the guy just standing in the corner but Dragic has been reluctant to take advantage of that this season.

I agree we are weak down low but just season before last we had Scola, Gortat and Jermaine O'Neal - a front court many teams would love to have. Dragic could do nothing with them. It wasn't until we paired him with a big man that can also pick and pop or shoot the 3 that the lane opened up enough for him to be effective. And he was mostly effective at getting his own shot or working with that one player. Even when we lost Bledsoe his assist rate stayed even (5.9/6.0 thereabouts) despite no longer playing next to a point guard.

This team has problems and the front office has made mistakes. Big deal. Nothing warranted Goran's shots leading into the deadline and I'm sure he knew it. He even acknowledged after it was over that he made the situation sound worse than it was. But you can't casually call men liars and not expect a response.

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well so I'm probably all over he map with this post but I just finished watching the press conference and I'm surprised that the reaction wasn't even stronger. Although I think that was due to Babby sitting on McDonough. I forget the exact point but there was a leading question about me-first players directed to McDonough (long after the one Lon answered) and you could see Babby raise his eyes sternly towards McDonough as if warning him away from the answer he wanted to give. I thought it was funny and more than a little telling about the power structure. Anyway, I give Lon a 9.5 and McDonough a solid 7 for this press conference.

Steve

He had the same flaws he has always had but yet we still brought him in here to do his thing. Dragic wasn't the only reason we employed a multi-guard system. People forget that. Our scoring all the way around was going to be a problem with the anemic front court. Dragic was hardly the only reason we moved him to SG. We wanted to get more play makers and one less unproductive Foward/Center off the floor.

Also, having better stats doesn't necessarily make one a better basketball player. We have seen guys come in and out of this league put up huge numbers an be perennial losers their entire career. He put up great numbers last year for sure. But playing him at SG along side another PG and throwing in a 3rd PG took it's toll on the team down the stretch and again this year. I think he knows that. Hell everybody has been saying that on just about every analyst show I have seen.

Dragic was an IDIOT for opening his mouth. So, you will get no argument from me there. I agree with many of the posters you keep your dirty laundry in house. PERIOD.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm just a ****-eyed optimist - I think Goran did us a favor by pushing his way off the team the way he did. The chances he'd be another Nash in his declining years are pretty remote given his style of play and we are (and were two days ago) certainly nowhere near the brink of contending. I know that I was fearing that Sarver would pay him whatever it took to keep him come next summer's free agency - regardless of whether or not it was in the team's best interest.

I'm unhappy that we let go of Ennis in acquiring Kright - it is a signal that McD and Hornacek believe that two combo guards is the best strategy and the only one they are willing to consider. Frankly, I thought that Hornacek would get a lot more out of playing Bled and Dragic together than he did so I do not consider them a rousing success - and I don't expect Bledsoe and Knight to be any better. Maybe I'll get a pleasant surprise. My dream for Ennis was that he'd open Hornacek's eyes about the value of a more varied half court offense.

Barring some kind of freakishly good fit between Eric and Brandon we are going to have to watch this all play out and wait for Hornacek to get dumped.

 

[Errntknght]

Actually I think this is one of your best posts. You did a great job of reminding me about some of Dragic's specific weaknesses, and the point about his struggles with the Gortat/Scola front court is well taken. Go to the dentist more often!

I second Eric on this, a great post Steve.

 

[sunsfan88]

No they aren't. Where? The evaluation around the league is they made the best of a difficult situation.

Suns put themselves in that difficult situation. Almost every major media outlet and expert have been ripping the Suns for bringing in IT in the first place and screwing up the Dragic-Bledsoe combo that actually worked last year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Suns put themselves in that difficult situation. Almost every major media outlet and expert have been ripping the Suns for bringing in IT in the first place and screwing up the Dragic-Bledsoe combo that actually worked last year.

Yep, I don't usually put much stock in a media analyst. Heck I think some people who post here are just as knowledgeable as some of those guys. However, we were being called out by just about everybody about our FO choices, strategy. system and now they all look right. It happens rarely but I guess it does happen.

 

[devilalum]

Suns put themselves in that difficult situation. Almost every major media outlet and expert have been ripping the Suns for bringing in IT in the first place and screwing up the Dragic-Bledsoe combo that actually worked last year.

They brought in IT when they thought they might lose Bledsoe and he was signed at a bargain. Hindsight is awesome.

 

[Covert Rain]

They brought in IT when they thought they might lose Bledsoe and he was signed at a bargain. Hindsight is awesome.

True but many said playing Bledsoe and Dragic long term wasn't going to work. Even when we were playing well, I think Doug Collins and I remember another ex-coach mentioning it wasn't going to work in the playoffs or long term. We tapered off last season and it did not look the same this season even when Bledsoe and Dragic were on the court together.

 

[sunsfan88]

They brought in IT when they thought they might lose Bledsoe and he was signed at a bargain. Hindsight is awesome.

They knew they were gonna match Bledsoe no matter what. They match nearly a Max deal for him so I doubt they thought they were gonna actually lose him.

But to play devil's advocate, let's say you are right. I'm gonna say what Gambo said yesterday,losing Bledsoe does not mean we immediately had to get another PG. We drafted Ennis who was considered the most NBA ready PG in the draft. Plus we still had Dragic. Most teams only have one good PG and then one backup.

Does the NBA make us forfeit games if we don't have two PGs who are making big money on the roster or something?

But ok even then, why not trade IT in December or January? He's been expressing his desire to start all year directly or indirectly. We didn't have to wait this long.

 

[devilalum]

The best part of all these trades is that I don't have to root for the Lakers to win anymore.

 

[devilalum]

They knew they were gonna match Bledsoe no matter what. They match nearly a Max deal for him so I doubt they thought they were gonna actually lose him.

But to play devil's advocate, let's say you are right. I'm gonna say what Gambo said yesterday,losing Bledsoe does not mean we immediately had to get another PG. We drafted Ennis who was considered the most NBA ready PG in the draft. Plus we still had Dragic. Most teams only have one good PG and then one backup.

Does the NBA make us forfeit games if we don't have two PGs who are making big money on the roster or something?

But ok even then, why not trade IT in December or January? He's been expressing his desire to start all year directly or indirectly. We didn't have to wait this long.

I don't know what the plan was but I never envisioned IT starting next to Dragic. I thought he was brought in to be a 6th man scoring guy.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know what the plan was but I never envisioned IT starting next to Dragic. I thought he was brought in to be a 6th man scoring guy.

Same here. I don't think IT was even gonna start even if Bledsoe left.

Dragic-IT backcourt would have been too much to make up for defensively.

 

[Phrazbit]

Let's revisit that point in a season or two. We wanted to play him at the point guard spot also but a full season of traditional basketball showcased his flaws. I think it's amazing how so many people here have forgotten how weak he was at really running an offense. He can pick and roll, he can drive and dish but he has tunnel vision, he's a mediocre passer, he (apparently) can't see the play developing in his mind and each year he gets a little worse at defending the position. Not because he's slowed down but because each year there are fewer and fewer Derek Fisher's, Jameer Nelson's, Andre Miller's etc.

This is the era of the quick point (read:scoring) guard. The changing game makes him a far better basketball player than he is a point guard. Jeff still wanted him to handle the ball, not stand in the corner and pout, because his two guard offense is based on the advantages the rules give to the perimeter ball handler. The defense has to play that man differently than the guy just standing in the corner but Dragic has been reluctant to take advantage of that this season.

I agree we are weak down low but just season before last we had Scola, Gortat and Jermaine O'Neal - a front court many teams would love to have. Dragic could do nothing with them. It wasn't until we paired him with a big man that can also pick and pop or shoot the 3 that the lane opened up enough for him to be effective. And he was mostly effective at getting his own shot or working with that one player. Even when we lost Bledsoe his assist rate stayed even (5.9/6.0 thereabouts) despite no longer playing next to a point guard.

This team has problems and the front office has made mistakes. Big deal. Nothing warranted Goran's shots leading into the deadline and I'm sure he knew it. He even acknowledged after it was over that he made the situation sound worse than it was. But you can't casually call men liars and not expect a response.

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well so I'm probably all over he map with this post but I just finished watching the press conference and I'm surprised that the reaction wasn't even stronger. Although I think that was due to Babby sitting on McDonough. I forget the exact point but there was a leading question about me-first players directed to McDonough (long after the one Lon answered) and you could see Babby raise his eyes sternly towards McDonough as if warning him away from the answer he wanted to give. I thought it was funny and more than a little telling about the power structure. Anyway, I give Lon a 9.5 and McDonough a solid 7 for this press conference.

Steve

Awesome post, opiates agree with you.

He had the same flaws he has always had but yet we still brought him in here to do his thing. Dragic wasn't the only reason we employed a multi-guard system. People forget that. Our scoring all the way around was going to be a problem with the anemic front court. Dragic was hardly the only reason we moved him to SG. We wanted to get more play makers and one less unproductive Foward/Center off the floor.

Also, having better stats doesn't necessarily make one a better basketball player. We have seen guys come in and out of this league put up huge numbers an be perennial losers their entire career. He put up great numbers last year for sure. But playing him at SG along side another PG and throwing in a 3rd PG took it's toll on the team down the stretch and again this year. I think he knows that. Hell everybody has been saying that on just about every analyst show I have seen.

Dragic was an IDIOT for opening his mouth. So, you will get no argument from me there. I agree with many of the posters you keep your dirty laundry in house. PERIOD.

I'm surprise that no one has mentioned that the GM in charge of the team when Goran was signed was fired. Whatever plan was being put in motion at the moment of the signing went out the window when the team was horrible, Dragic was mediocre and the GM got canned. Goran should realize that.

His expectation that his role was immune to change is absurd, especially when the act of changing it brought a massive change in fortune for the team... but he wanted things to go back to the way they were when he first arrived and the team was awful?

I agree with what others have said. If Goran had simply asked out the team probably would have shipped him off and kept their mouths shut, but when you rip into the organization, call them liars... then the team should respond.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Let's revisit that point in a season or two. We wanted to play him at the point guard spot also but a full season of traditional basketball showcased his flaws. I think it's amazing how so many people here have forgotten how weak he was at really running an offense. He can pick and roll, he can drive and dish but he has tunnel vision, he's a mediocre passer, he (apparently) can't see the play developing in his mind and each year he gets a little worse at defending the position. Not because he's slowed down but because each year there are fewer and fewer Derek Fisher's, Jameer Nelson's, Andre Miller's etc.

This is the era of the quick point (read:scoring) guard. The changing game makes him a far better basketball player than he is a point guard. Jeff still wanted him to handle the ball, not stand in the corner and pout, because his two guard offense is based on the advantages the rules give to the perimeter ball handler. The defense has to play that man differently than the guy just standing in the corner but Dragic has been reluctant to take advantage of that this season.

I agree we are weak down low but just season before last we had Scola, Gortat and Jermaine O'Neal - a front court many teams would love to have. Dragic could do nothing with them. It wasn't until we paired him with a big man that can also pick and pop or shoot the 3 that the lane opened up enough for him to be effective. And he was mostly effective at getting his own shot or working with that one player. Even when we lost Bledsoe his assist rate stayed even (5.9/6.0 thereabouts) despite no longer playing next to a point guard.

This team has problems and the front office has made mistakes. Big deal. Nothing warranted Goran's shots leading into the deadline and I'm sure he knew it. He even acknowledged after it was over that he made the situation sound worse than it was. But you can't casually call men liars and not expect a response.

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well so I'm probably all over he map with this post but I just finished watching the press conference and I'm surprised that the reaction wasn't even stronger. Although I think that was due to Babby sitting on McDonough. I forget the exact point but there was a leading question about me-first players directed to McDonough (long after the one Lon answered) and you could see Babby raise his eyes sternly towards McDonough as if warning him away from the answer he wanted to give. I thought it was funny and more than a little telling about the power structure. Anyway, I give Lon a 9.5 and McDonough a solid 7 for this press conference.

Steve

Awesome post Steve! Gambo said today that 3 days before the deadline, the Suns and Dragic himself sat down and talked. The Suns told Dragic they wanted him long-term and were willing to give him a max deal, and Dragic was apparently content... And then the very next day, the Suns met with Goran's agent and everything had changed! Followed by Goran's agent leaking the news about the only 3 teams Goran is interested in going to (Lakers, Heat and Knicks), with everyone knowing the reality was that the Heat was the only team that would come with a legit offer. It placed the Suns in an extremely compromised position...
I think Babby and McDonough had every right to feel and say what they said. I probably shouldn't be, but I'm surprised Dragic stooped to this level...

 

[Mainstreet]

I listened to the Babby and McDonough Presser carefully and I actually think the Suns pulled their punches regarding Dragic and some of the other players that moved on. It was there, but the Suns left a lot open to interpretation. I didn't see a full blown frontal attack like Dragic leveled at the Suns. As others have noted, I have not seen many players throw their team under the bus especially leaving them so little time to recover from such an attack. Dragic not only demanded to be traded like one and half days before the trade deadline but he limited the Suns options to three teams. He was one of my favorites players but certainly not anymore with what I term a selfish act.

 

[sunsfan88]

Ryan McD is getting clowned for the comments he made about Dragic

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1373931#start_here

I haven't seen the presser yet so I'm not gonna form an opinion.

 

[Sci Fi]

I'm pretty sure the sales pitch was, we'll give you $7.5 million a year and no other team is coming close to that. Everything else was Prima Dragic's ego and inflated value.

He actually turned down an offer for 9 million for 4 years from Charlotte but did so because he didn't think they could win. So much for the theory that he's only about the money.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ryan McD is getting clowned for the comments he made about Dragic

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1373931#start_here

I haven't seen the presser yet so I'm not gonna form an opinion.

You might want to watch the presser. I do not consider the posters on the RealGM forum anywhere near the quality as ASFN posters. A lot of the posters there just shoot from the hip with little knowledge IMO. I certainly would not post there or bother reading posts there for knowledge.

 

[sunsfan88]

You might want to watch the presser. I do not consider the posters on the RealGM forum anywhere near the quality as ASFN posters. A lot of the posters there just shoot from the hip with little knowledge IMO. I certainly would not post there or bother reading posts there for knowledge.

Where were you able to find a link?

 

[Mainstreet]

Where were you able to find a link?

Here is a link to it:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...d-to-be-rid-of-selfish-goran-dragic/23749779/

 

[Sci Fi]

Let's revisit that point in a season or two. We wanted to play him at the point guard spot also but a full season of traditional basketball showcased his flaws. I think it's amazing how so many people here have forgotten how weak he was at really running an offense. He can pick and roll, he can drive and dish but he has tunnel vision, he's a mediocre passer, he (apparently) can't see the play developing in his mind and each year he gets a little worse at defending the position. Not because he's slowed down but because each year there are fewer and fewer Derek Fisher's, Jameer Nelson's, Andre Miller's etc.

This is the era of the quick point (read:scoring) guard. The changing game makes him a far better basketball player than he is a point guard. Jeff still wanted him to handle the ball, not stand in the corner and pout, because his two guard offense is based on the advantages the rules give to the perimeter ball handler. The defense has to play that man differently than the guy just standing in the corner but Dragic has been reluctant to take advantage of that this season.

I agree we are weak down low but just season before last we had Scola, Gortat and Jermaine O'Neal - a front court many teams would love to have. Dragic could do nothing with them. It wasn't until we paired him with a big man that can also pick and pop or shoot the 3 that the lane opened up enough for him to be effective. And he was mostly effective at getting his own shot or working with that one player. Even when we lost Bledsoe his assist rate stayed even (5.9/6.0 thereabouts) despite no longer playing next to a point guard.

This team has problems and the front office has made mistakes. Big deal. Nothing warranted Goran's shots leading into the deadline and I'm sure he knew it. He even acknowledged after it was over that he made the situation sound worse than it was. But you can't casually call men liars and not expect a response.

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well so I'm probably all over he map with this post but I just finished watching the press conference and I'm surprised that the reaction wasn't even stronger. Although I think that was due to Babby sitting on McDonough. I forget the exact point but there was a leading question about me-first players directed to McDonough (long after the one Lon answered) and you could see Babby raise his eyes sternly towards McDonough as if warning him away from the answer he wanted to give. I thought it was funny and more than a little telling about the power structure. Anyway, I give Lon a 9.5 and McDonough a solid 7 for this press conference.

Steve

I can't understand while y'all are so butt hurt. Dragic did you a favor by leaving. Now, with the addition of Knight, you have not one, not two but THREE players better than a third team All-NBA player. It should be easy to hold off the Thunder with all that talent. Probably even should get to seventh place. After all, Dragic is such an incomplete player with so many flaws he was only able to lead the team to a measly 20-19 by himself. Place your bets gentlemen. How do the Suns finish the last 28?

 

[FutureSuperstar]

Has anyone seen the article on ESPN's front-page (It's linked in the REAL GM thread posted above) - "Suns GM tweaks Dragic, "We got best player" ... It is a blatant lie of a headline. The whole article is based off mis-information.

The quote in the article is this:

""We feel like we got the best player in the trade [Brandon Knight], coming or going," Phoenix general manager Ryan McDonough said a day after completing a three-way trade that most notably sent Dragic and his brother Zoran to the Miami Heat; the Suns netted Knight from the Milwaukee Bucks."

... McDonough was saying Knight is the best player in the 3 way trade (Which is pretty obvious) - The article incorrectly states Dragic was a part of the trade (So the whole article uses that quote as a dis toward Dragic)

McDonough has dised Dragic a bit today, but articles such as these w/ a 100% False headline aren't helping ... The general public/fans only read headlines, so having such a blatant lie as a headline is pretty damaging to the public perception of the Suns and isn't right

 

[devilalum]

Has anyone seen the article on ESPN's front-page (It's linked in the REAL GM thread posted above) - "Suns GM tweaks Dragic, "We got best player" ... It is a blatant lie of a headline. The whole article is based off mis-information.

The quote in the article is this:

""We feel like we got the best player in the trade [Brandon Knight], coming or going," Phoenix general manager Ryan McDonough said a day after completing a three-way trade that most notably sent Dragic and his brother Zoran to the Miami Heat; the Suns netted Knight from the Milwaukee Bucks."

... McDonough was saying Knight is the best player in the 3 way trade (Which is pretty obvious) - The article incorrectly states Dragic was a part of the trade (So the whole article uses that quote as a dis toward Dragic)

McDonough has dised Dragic a bit today, but articles such as these w/ a 100% False headline aren't helping ... The general public/fans only read headlines, so having such a blatant lie as a headline is pretty damaging to the public perception of the Suns and isn't right

Who cares. Spin it hard. It will just be more fun when the Suns play Miami next season.