Babby and McDonough Presser

Covert Rain

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Because they have not.

McStunna clearly adressed this. They are the 3rd youngest team and solidified their status as a winning team this season. 2 years ago Dragic was the PG and they won 25 games.

They did not screw up anything. He took over a horrid team and made moves that made them competetive again and young at the same time.

B.S. You put together a roster to generate some excitement and tried to bring back an original Sun to drum up more. You have to give the team credit for stock piling assets but got the stupid idea to build the team around a guarapalooza strategy.

A strategy by the that led to one of the biggest roster turnovers in NBA history at the trading deadline. If you don't think that is royal black eye and screw up....I don't know what to tell you.

Did the FO screw the pooch over this debacle? Sure, why not. But what Goran did to publicly disparage this organization in the media has long damaging consequences for the Suns. Calling the FO untrustworthy can affect future FAs who the Suns could pursue in the future. Goran should have voiced his displeasure and trade demands in private or through his agent. I lost a ton of respect for Goran over this matter.

What did I say above? I am not defending Dragic's handling of the situation. Just like I am not defending this FO from having a stupid strategy, degrading itself into a pissing match, failing to just take the high road and failing to admit we screwed up.
 
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JS22

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and they damaged them further by throwing him under the bus after he left. Great, classy organizations don't get into pissing matches after something blew up in their face. they just move on.

"Pissing match?" Please.

I honestly can't think of a player in recent memory doing what Dragic did. Kobe, sure. But that's Kobe being Kobe.

Dragic essentially called the FO liars and acted like a spoiled little ... well you know ... a day before the trade deadline - in public. And we all know why. If he does this behind closed doors the Suns most likely keep him and try to convince him to stay. But he didn't want the Suns to retain his Bird rights so he embarrassed them publicly to get his way. (And his extra 15-20 million from a team he wanted to play for.)

Not that it matters, but Dragic went from one of my favorite players to a guy that I lost a lot of respect for. I have no problem with the FO voicing their displeasure with the situation.
 

KloD

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Sure they could. This sounded more like two high school kids getting in a pissing match.

Dragic didn't set out the strategy for the organization. Dragic didn't make the decisions that baffled the entire NBA in terms of turning the roster into Guardapalooza.

Look, I think Dragic could have handled it better but to blame him is ludicrous. The Front Office screwed the pooch in terms of decision making and direction and to some extent is continuing that with Bledsoe/Knight combo.

How about taking some ownership for making mistakes and admitting they screwed up the entire situation. I would have left too if I was Dragic.

:mulli: Your rational is so ass backwards it's painful.
 

JCSunsfan

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How do you think he looks now? The Front Office is the butt of jokes right now. They have been criticized across the league for a stupid strategy.

You really think pissing on Dragic helps? It didn't. Not one bit. Just makes the front office look stupid and now petty too.

Have some freaking class and rise above.

No they aren't. Where? The evaluation around the league is they made the best of a difficult situation.
 

Covert Rain

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"Pissing match?" Please.

I honestly can't think of a player in recent memory doing what Dragic did. Kobe, sure. But that's Kobe being Kobe.

Dragic essentially called the FO liars and acted like a spoiled little ... well you know ... a day before the trade deadline - in public. And we all know why. If he does this behind closed doors the Suns most likely keep him and try to convince him to stay. But he didn't want the Suns to retain his Bird rights so he embarrassed them publicly to get his way. (And his extra 15-20 million from a team he wanted to play for.)

Not that it matters, but Dragic went from one of my favorite players to a guy that I lost a lot of respect for. I have no problem with the FO voicing their displeasure with the situation.

Cheese is right. It is a pissing match. I have seen plenty of organization with bad situations with players take the high road and not get into it. Dragic was probably lied to.

Do you really thinks the sales pitch to have him return here was hey Dragic....we are not really going to build the team around you but instead get a bunch of redundant PGs in here and play that way?

Right. Dragic SHOULD have kept his mouth shut but this FO doesn't get a free pass here.

No they aren't. Where? The evaluation around the league is they made the best of a difficult situation.

They aren't? Why then I have watched people question what the hell the Suns are doing on ESPN, NBATV, TNT, Yahoo news and just about every other publication. The team just turned over half of it's roster.

That is not a joke? Wait...what?!?! How can that be construed as anything but? Did they make the best of of a bad situation.

YES. We agree. However, it's a situation of their own making.
 
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devilalum

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B.S. You put together a roster to generate some excitement and tried to bring back an original Sun to drum up more. You have to give the team credit for stock piling assets but got the stupid idea to build the team around a guarapalooza strategy.

A strategy by the that led to one of the biggest roster turnovers in NBA history at the trading deadline. If you don't think that is royal black eye and screw up....I don't know what to tell you.



What did I say above? I am not defending Dragic's handling of the situation. Just like I am not defending this FO from having a stupid strategy, degrading itself into a pissing match, failing to just take the high road and failing to admit we screwed up.

A couple of years back 2 teams made a 12 player deal at the deadline. The Suns traded one starter.
 

KloD

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"Pissing match?" Please.

I honestly can't think of a player in recent memory doing what Dragic did. Kobe, sure. But that's Kobe being Kobe.

Dragic essentially called the FO liars and acted like a spoiled little ... well you know ... a day before the trade deadline - in public. And we all know why. If he does this behind closed doors the Suns most likely keep him and try to convince him to stay. But he didn't want the Suns to retain his Bird rights so he embarrassed them publicly to get his way. (And his extra 15-20 million from a team he wanted to play for.)

Not that it matters, but Dragic went from one of my favorite players to a guy that I lost a lot of respect for. I have no problem with the FO voicing their displeasure with the situation.

:cheers:
 

slinslin

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Cheese is right. It is a pissing match. I have seen plenty of organization with bad situations with players take the high road and not get into it. Dragic was probably lied to.

Do you really thinks the sales pitch to have him return here was hey Dragic....we are not really going to build the team around you but instead get a bunch of redundant PGs in here and play that way?

Right. Dragic SHOULD have kept his mouth shut but this FO doesn't get a free pass here.

Counter question

Do you really think the sales pitch was

" you will be playing PG forever exclusively and have the ball at all times no matter what the record of the team is ? "

Pretty sure a sales pitch would be more like "we will try to build a very good team but it will take some time".

Our owner already is in a weak spot in the public eye. No way we could have McStunna, the real success story of the last 2 years, to suddenly be damaged and looked at as a bad guy or weak spot in the organization and lose the trust of the fans.
 
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Covert Rain

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Counter question

Do you really think the sales pitch was

" you will be playing PG forever exclusively and have the ball at all times no matter what the record of the team is ? "

Pretty sure a sales pitch would be more like "we will try to build a very good team".

That is a dumb counter question. Every player knows in the NBA regardless of why they brought you here if you don't get the job done the team will move on.

However, the average team also doesn't bring in a PG, SG, PF or whatever and sign or draft redundant players to play the same position while continuing to tell said player "your the man".

A couple of years back 2 teams made a 12 player deal at the deadline. The Suns traded one starter.

Not the point I was making but OK.
 

slinslin

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How do you know that McStunna ever told Dragic he is "the man".

McStunna made it pretty clear that the ultimate goal is making the team better and that in order to do that players have to buy into it and buy into their roles that it takes to win.
He made it very clear that they want players on this team who put the team first and put winning first and that players who care more about their own role will not be tolerated.
 

KloD

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Counter question

Do you really think the sales pitch was

" you will be playing PG forever exclusively and have the ball at all times no matter what the record of the team is ? "

Pretty sure a sales pitch would be more like "we will try to build a very good team but it will take some time".

I'm pretty sure the sales pitch was, we'll give you $7.5 million a year and no other team is coming close to that. Everything else was Prima Dragic's ego and inflated value.
 

elindholm

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"some players say they only want to win whatever it takes and mean it, example PJ Tucker."

What a load of crap. If Tucker wanted to win at all costs, he wouldn't put his dead-drunk ass behind a steering wheel.

For the love of all that is holy, if this front office really thinks that Tucker is a model citizen of the league, they are far more clueless than I could have possibly imagined.
 

82CardsGrad

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"Pissing match?" Please.

I honestly can't think of a player in recent memory doing what Dragic did. Kobe, sure. But that's Kobe being Kobe.

Dragic essentially called the FO liars and acted like a spoiled little ... well you know ... a day before the trade deadline - in public. And we all know why. If he does this behind closed doors the Suns most likely keep him and try to convince him to stay. But he didn't want the Suns to retain his Bird rights so he embarrassed them publicly to get his way. (And his extra 15-20 million from a team he wanted to play for.)

Not that it matters, but Dragic went from one of my favorite players to a guy that I lost a lot of respect for. I have no problem with the FO voicing their displeasure with the situation.

Totally agree! :thumbup:
 

95pro

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Dragic was just not accepting his role. He said it himself that he didn't like being stuck in the corner. He's right to feel that way. IT and Bledsoe never got the ball to him. And that's not his skill set either, standing in the corner for 3's. Bad on the FO/coach for that.
Dragic was wrong to go out the way he did. Our FO needs to save face and just **** and move on with positive media messages. A lot of wrong on both parties, but it all started with the FO.
 

Covert Rain

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How do you know that McStunna ever told Dragic he is "the man".

McStunna made it pretty clear that the ultimate goal is making the team better and that in order to do that players have to buy into it and buy into their roles that it takes to win.
He made it very clear that they want players on this team who put the team first and put winning first and that players who care more about their own role will not be tolerated.

So let met get this straight. It's a huge leap to tell him to comeback here after being a 3rd team NBA all star at PG that he wouldn't be the team's future PG?

Usually when teams say you need to play your role that typically under normal circumstances doesn't mean primarily playing out of position and signing/drafting guys to play a redundant role. Now that is a stretch.
 

slinslin

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What a load of crap. If Tucker wanted to win at all costs, he wouldn't put his dead-drunk ass behind a steering wheel.

For the love of all that is holy, if this front office really thinks that Tucker is a model citizen of the league, they are far more clueless than I could have possibly imagined.

I dont see what you are trying to say here, off-court mistakes in the offseason does not mean that Tucker as a player does everything in order to win no matter what he is asked to do.
 

StreetTruckinTitan

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What a load of crap. If Tucker wanted to win at all costs, he wouldn't put his dead-drunk ass behind a steering wheel.

For the love of all that is holy, if this front office really thinks that Tucker is a model citizen of the league, they are far more clueless than I could have possibly imagined.

Totally unrelated to on court performance. I couldnt give two s#its about what he does off the court.
 

elindholm

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I dont see what you are trying to say here, off-court mistakes in the offseason does not mean that Tucker as a player does everything in order to win no matter what he is asked to do.

Of course it does. Do you think that the truly great players have an "offseason," or that they are really ever "off the court"? If you're as focused on winning as McBabbough evidently believes Tucker to be, it's an all-consuming passion, not just something that you think about for a few hours at a time during seven or eight months of the year.
 

StreetTruckinTitan

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Dragic was just not accepting his role. He said it himself that he didn't like being stuck in the corner. He's right to feel that way. IT and Bledsoe never got the ball to him. And that's not his skill set either, standing in the corner for 3's. Bad on the FO/coach for that.
Dragic was wrong to go out the way he did. Our FO needs to save face and just **** and move on with positive media messages. A lot of wrong on both parties, but it all started with the FO.

Nobody puts baby in a corner! :D
 

JCSunsfan

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Counter question

Do you really think the sales pitch was

" you will be playing PG forever exclusively and have the ball at all times no matter what the record of the team is ? "

Pretty sure a sales pitch would be more like "we will try to build a very good team but it will take some time".

Our owner already is in a weak spot in the public eye. No way we could have McStunna, the real success story of the last 2 years, to suddenly be damaged and looked at as a bad guy or weak spot in the organization and lose the trust of the fans.

It was probably "We will give you 7.5 mill and look, you will get to run your own team." Not intended to be a contractual promise, but rather a description of the present circumstances at the time. There was no other pg for him to play behind.

For a player to think he has a right to start at any position is arrogant. Winning takes precendence over everything. That is why IT is gone too. He wants to start. There is no way in HELL IT becomes a starter for this team. He is deficient as a pg, and you just can't have a 5'9" sg as a starter. You just cant.
 

Covert Rain

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It was probably "We will give you 7.5 mill and look, you will get to run your own team." Not intended to be a contractual promise, but rather a description of the present circumstances at the time. There was no other pg for him to play behind.

For a player to think he has a right to start at any position is arrogant. Winning takes precendence over everything. That is why IT is gone too. He wants to start. There is no way in HELL IT becomes a starter for this team. He is deficient as a pg, and you just can't have a 5'9" sg as a starter. You just cant.

I don't disagree with that but that is not what happened here IMO with Dragic. You have a 3rd team All star PG that by all accounts of yesterday is a well sought after PG in the NBA. Teams that want to play him in his natural position by the way.

To say that the sales pitch wasn't your a PG of the future is hardly a stretch. I can guarantee it wasn't hey we are going to trade, draft or bring in guys to play PG too.

Our font court is weak. If there was an issue with not winning it's hardly Dragic's fault. The team lacked leadership on and off the court with rudderless direction. We are playing guys out of position which has never produced a title for us.

What player would be happy with that?
 
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JCSunsfan

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Simple fact. The Suns want a two pg system. The trades of yesterday indicate that. They want either guard to be able to push and distribute on the break and run the half court.

Dragic didn't want to do that. 3rd team all-nba or not, he didn't buy in and he took it public. They said he did not buy in from the beginning. They told him to be patient and see. He went on to have a career year and the team succeeded. They assumed that would be enough for him and he would see how it could work. He still did not like it.

They HAD to move on. But it was completely unprofessional of Goran to do this the way he did, especially with so little time before the deadline.
 

AzStevenCal

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I don't disagree with that but that is not what happened here IMO with Dragic. You have a 3rd team All star PG that by all accounts of yesterday is a well sought after PG in the NBA. Teams that want to play him in his natural position by the way.

To say that the sales pitch wasn't your a PG of the future is hardly a stretch. I can guarantee it wasn't hey we are going to trade, draft or bring in guys to play PG too.

Our font court is weak. If there was an issue with not winning it's hardly Dragic's fault. The team lacked leadership on and off the court with rudderless direction. We are playing guys out of position which has never produced a title for us.

What player would be happy with that?

Let's revisit that point in a season or two. We wanted to play him at the point guard spot also but a full season of traditional basketball showcased his flaws. I think it's amazing how so many people here have forgotten how weak he was at really running an offense. He can pick and roll, he can drive and dish but he has tunnel vision, he's a mediocre passer, he (apparently) can't see the play developing in his mind and each year he gets a little worse at defending the position. Not because he's slowed down but because each year there are fewer and fewer Derek Fisher's, Jameer Nelson's, Andre Miller's etc.

This is the era of the quick point (read:scoring) guard. The changing game makes him a far better basketball player than he is a point guard. Jeff still wanted him to handle the ball, not stand in the corner and pout, because his two guard offense is based on the advantages the rules give to the perimeter ball handler. The defense has to play that man differently than the guy just standing in the corner but Dragic has been reluctant to take advantage of that this season.

I agree we are weak down low but just season before last we had Scola, Gortat and Jermaine O'Neal - a front court many teams would love to have. Dragic could do nothing with them. It wasn't until we paired him with a big man that can also pick and pop or shoot the 3 that the lane opened up enough for him to be effective. And he was mostly effective at getting his own shot or working with that one player. Even when we lost Bledsoe his assist rate stayed even (5.9/6.0 thereabouts) despite no longer playing next to a point guard.

This team has problems and the front office has made mistakes. Big deal. Nothing warranted Goran's shots leading into the deadline and I'm sure he knew it. He even acknowledged after it was over that he made the situation sound worse than it was. But you can't casually call men liars and not expect a response.

I spent some quality time with the dentist this morning that didn't go well so I'm probably all over he map with this post but I just finished watching the press conference and I'm surprised that the reaction wasn't even stronger. Although I think that was due to Babby sitting on McDonough. I forget the exact point but there was a leading question about me-first players directed to McDonough (long after the one Lon answered) and you could see Babby raise his eyes sternly towards McDonough as if warning him away from the answer he wanted to give. I thought it was funny and more than a little telling about the power structure. Anyway, I give Lon a 9.5 and McDonough a solid 7 for this press conference.

Steve
 

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