Barron bait?

[Dougmo]

I love indulging various trade scenario's coming up to the draft. Most are unrealistic but alot of fun to think about. Here's one that I think is reasonable.
Our pick comes up and all our 'value' prospects are gone (DeCastro, Ingram, Reiff, Floyd, Kuechly).
Barron is still on the board. Good player but not a huge area of need. The next 3 teams (Dal, Phi, NYJ) all have need at Safety and covet Barron (the only 'great' safety prospect in this draft). A bidding war ensues in which we drop down 1-3 spaces and pick up a 3rd rounder.

Actually, my dream scenario is that one of our value picks is still there but we still swindle the Cowgirls out of their 3rd (or 4th) rounder to move back one space and still get our guy.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think the most realistic trade partener is the Jets. They could want Ingram or Barron, maybe even Upshaw. I don't think getting a 2nd rounder to swap places is likley but a 3rd is very probable. The Jets have the 77th pick so the Cards could slide down to 16 and have picks 77 and 80. In fact, I was going to use this trade in a new mock. I have the Cards taking Glenn at 16, Ronnel Lewis at 77, and Bruce Irvin, maybe Cam Johnson, at 80. That would be a very good trade for the Cards. They could get their RT and address the OLB needs in round 3. Other than Acho and Schoefield, there aren't any OLB's of significance on the Cards roster and it's definitely an area that needs addressed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I think the most realistic trade partener is the Jets. They could want Ingram or Barron, maybe even Upshaw. I don't think getting a 2nd rounder to swap places is likley but a 3rd is very probable. The Jets have the 77th pick so the Cards could slide down to 16 and have picks 77 and 80. In fact, I was going to use this trade in a new mock. I have the Cards taking Glenn at 16, Ronnel Lewis at 77, and Bruce Irvin, maybe Cam Johnson, at 80. That would be a very good trade for the Cards. They could get their RT and address the OLB needs in round 3. Other than Acho and Schoefield, there aren't any OLB's of significance on the Cards roster and it's definitely an area that needs addressed.

I don't think Ingram gets to #13, but - I could see both Dallas and the Jets in a bit of a competition for Barron, that could play into the "Cards". Left to be seen, but the more I hear, the more I think that Upshaw is going to drop in round one. No one can seem to settle on what he actually does well that translates to the NFL game; too short and without the quick step to play as a 4-3 DE and not athletically gifted to play OLB in a 3-4, is some of the assessement.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think the most realistic trade partener is the Jets. They could want Ingram or Barron, maybe even Upshaw. I don't think getting a 2nd rounder to swap places is likley but a 3rd is very probable. The Jets have the 77th pick so the Cards could slide down to 16 and have picks 77 and 80. In fact, I was going to use this trade in a new mock. I have the Cards taking Glenn at 16, Ronnel Lewis at 77, and Bruce Irvin, maybe Cam Johnson, at 80. That would be a very good trade for the Cards. They could get their RT and address the OLB needs in round 3. Other than Acho and Schoefield, there aren't any OLB's of significance on the Cards roster and it's definitely an area that needs addressed.

Don't discount the Pats using their plethora of high picks to trade UP for a pass rusher, S like Barron, or a DL player like Fletcher Cox, and then trading their other 1st for a 2nd/3rd and future 1. Hybrid guys like Ingram and Upshaw might be on their radar as they look to be off the board by the time they pick. Same goes if a solid vertical threat is still around at WR or OT help as Matt Light might retire.

 

[JeffGollin]

I haven't done the exercise, but we might be wise to assess how many players fitting a particular skill-set profile for a given position are as talented as the #1 guy available.

For example - If there's a big talent drop-off behind Barron and 3 teams badly want a guy like that, the price for that pick becomes stiffer.

But, say, three teams badly want Keuchly, but Hightower and Kendrick are considered close enough to Keuchly in talent, those teams can afford to wait - & there's less pressure for a team to overspend to move up.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I haven't done the exercise, but we might be wise to assess how many players fitting a particular skill-set profile for a given position are as talented as the #1 guy available.

For example - If there's a big talent drop-off behind Barron and 3 teams badly want a guy like that, the price for that pick becomes stiffer.

But, say, three teams badly want Keuchly, but Hightower and Kendrick are considered close enough to Keuchly in talent, those teams can afford to wait - & there's less pressure for a team to overspend to move up.

It's generally accepted that there's quite a drop off between Barron and Smith, the number two Safety. Not the case between Kuechly and Hightower. Many prefer Hightower, in fact.

 

[JeffGollin]

It's generally accepted that there's quite a drop off between Barron and Smith, the number two Safety. Not the case between Kuechly and Hightower. Many prefer Hightower, in fact.

My examples were meant to be hypotheticals & not necessarily real-life.

 

[Bodha]

There wont be a bidding war for him. Hes the best safety in this draft, but hes far from elite.

Hes no Eric Berry. Certainly no Sean Taylor. I dont think anyone 'covets' him. Good player, but I doubt anyone would be willing to trade up for him. Its expected he'll be available a little while.

 

[Dougmo]

There wont be a bidding war for him. Hes the best safety in this draft, but hes far from elite.

Hes no Eric Berry. Certainly no Sean Taylor. I dont think anyone 'covets' him. Good player, but I doubt anyone would be willing to trade up for him. Its expected he'll be available a little while.

That's what I originally thought too, but then I keep hearing about strong interests from those 3 teams (no inside source, just guys on tv, blogs, etc) and just about every team below them too.

I'm just thinking/hoping for possible trade-down scenarios in case all our value guys were gone. Barron seems like the most likely to garner interest and a possible bidding war due to the scarcity of quality safties.

I guess another possibility would be one of the other elite corners (Jenkins, Gilmore, Kirpatrick) if some team get's focused on just one of them.

 

[Bodha]

That's what I originally thought too, but then I keep hearing about strong interests from those 3 teams (no inside source, just guys on tv, blogs, etc) and just about every team below them too.

I'm just thinking/hoping for possible trade-down scenarios in case all our value guys were gone. Barron seems like the most likely to garner interest and a possible bidding war due to the scarcity of quality safties.

I guess another possibility would be one of the other elite corners (Jenkins, Gilmore, Kirpatrick) if some team get's focused on just one of them.

IMO the best trade bait we have at 13 is David DeCastro. Ive heard multiple times that the Chargers (17 I think) are very interested in him. He wont last till then if they dont make a move.

or possibly Ingram or Coples if they are still there.

Ive also heard the Patriots are looking to move up in the early picks. #13 is pretty early and all we ask for is a second rounder. Theyve got picks to burn so I dont think theyd be too picky about making a deal with us.

 

[JeffGollin]

IMO the best trade bait we have at 13 is David DeCastro. Ive heard multiple times that the Chargers (17 I think) are very interested in him. He wont last till then if they dont make a move.

or possibly Ingram or Coples if they are still there.

Ive also heard the Patriots are looking to move up in the early picks. #13 is pretty early and all we ask for is a second rounder. Theyve got picks to burn so I dont think theyd be too picky about making a deal with us.

Although it's unlikely - Tannehill could conceivably get past Miami, Buffalo & KC and fall to #13 - a magic moment in terms of an opportunity to trade down.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

IMO the best trade bait we have at 13 is David DeCastro. Ive heard multiple times that the Chargers (17 I think) are very interested in him. He wont last till then if they dont make a move.

or possibly Ingram or Coples if they are still there.

Ive also heard the Patriots are looking to move up in the early picks. #13 is pretty early and all we ask for is a second rounder. Theyve got picks to burn so I dont think theyd be too picky about making a deal with us.

The chances of Cards passing on DeCastro if available at #13; slim and none, and Slim left town (IMO)

 

[Bodha]

Although it's unlikely - Tannehill,could somehow get past Miami, Buffalo & KC and fall to #13.

Problem is whos going to want to move up to take him? Everyone behind us obviously had good seasons because they arent picking in the lottos (which are the teams that need QBs)

Whos going to move on Tannehill at 13? (teams picking after 13)

Philly no
Texans no
cowboys no
packers no
steelers no
Patriots no
49ers no
giants no
ravens - Possible Tannehill but very doubtful.
broncos no
lions no
browns - only real possible one if they dont take him with their 1st pick
bengals no
titans no
bears no
chargers no
jets no

You see, the Browns are the only team whos a Tannehill landing spot. They dont need to move up because they know nobody else is going to take him in the 1st because nobody else needs to.

The chances of Cards passing on DeCastro if available at #13; slim and none, and Slim left town (IMO)

Why, whats happened?

How come all of a sudden hes our guaranteed pick at 13? If youre referring to Deuce, we already signed Snyder to be the RG.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Problem is whos going to want to move up to take him? Everyone behind us obviously had good seasons because they arent picking in the lottos (which are the teams that need QBs)

Whos going to move on Tannehill at 13? (teams picking after 13)

Philly no
Texans no
cowboys no
packers no
steelers no
Patriots no
49ers no
giants no
ravens - Possible Tannehill but very doubtful.
broncos no
lions no
browns - only real possible one if they dont take him with their 1st pick
bengals no
titans no
bears no
chargers no
jets no

You see, the Browns are the only team whos a Tannehill landing spot. They dont need to move up because they know nobody else is going to take him in the 1st because nobody else needs to.




Why, whats happened?

How come all of a sudden hes our guaranteed pick at 13? If youre referring to Deuce, we already signed Snyder to be the RG.

IMO - if Decastro is on the board, he'll be viewed as too good to pass on, and Snyder will move to RT.

 

[juza76]

IMO - if Decastro is on the board, he'll be viewed as too good to pass on, and Snyder will move to RT.

snyder can be justa good starter at guard..at tackle is terrible so i prefer keep him at guard..and draft in the case they trade down glenn in round 1 or osemele in round 2 to play right tackle..so i hope they wont draft de castro cause then the team will be in the first place for sacks allowed

 

[pinetopred]

I know this is all hypothetical, but if we get calls from teams that may be needing safety help trying to move up why wouldn't we just pick Barron ourselves its not like we won't need help there in the near future, and for all we know the FO could have him ranked as a top 10 guy.

 

[JeffGollin]

Problem is whos going to want to move up to take him? Everyone behind us obviously had good seasons because they arent picking in the lottos (which are the teams that need QBs)...Whos going to move on Tannehill at 13? (teams picking after 13)....

Many of the teams drafting below us may not have QB as an immediate need, but several of them may be looking to groom a backup behind their starting QB (Andy Reid for one) and there are a couple of others who are flush with draft picks & totally committed to the BPA philosophy (translation: Belicheck) & may have fallen in love with Tannehill.

I'm not saying the odds favor this, but I'd be careful not to write it off as a possibility.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

snyder can be justa good starter at guard..at tackle is terrible so i prefer keep him at guard..and draft in the case they trade down glenn in round 1 or osemele in round 2 to play right tackle..so i hope they wont draft de castro cause then the team will be in the first place for sacks allowed

Snyder worse than Keith at R-tackle? Don't think so!

 

[Bodha]

Many of the teams drafting below us may not have QB as an immediate need, but several of them may be looking to groom a backup behind their starting QB (Andy Reid for one) and there are a couple of others who are flush with draft picks & totally committed to the BPA philosophy (translation: Belicheck) & may have fallen in love with Tannehill.

I'm not saying the odds favor this, but I'd be careful not to write it off as a possibility.

Wont be the Patriots. They just took whats-his-face, Mallett, last year. They are set.

and everyone else, say the Eagles, they are a few players away from contention, why would they take backups in the 1st? They want guys to win now.

First of all, I dont think Tannehill is getting out of the top 10, but if he does, I think hes worthless to us and everyone else. Hell be one of the 1st picks in the 2nd round.

IMO - if Decastro is on the board, he'll be viewed as too good to pass on, and Snyder will move to RT.

Drafting Guards in the first just makes me ill. You can find pro bowl guards in the 3rd round+

We need play makers in the 1st. I think we are 1 or 2 players away from an ELITE defense. Do you know what that means? Playoffs. The Ravens got 2 deep into the playoffs every year on defense alone. Much rather have that than a guard who will make little to no difference until we also replace our tackles.

rule of thumb, guys drafted in the 1st need to come with a stat line at the end of the game.

Here are the "best guards of 2011"
Jahri Evans -4th
Carl Nicks - 5th
kris Dielman - undrafted
chris snee - 2nd
brian waters- undrafted
chris kemoeatu - 6th
brandon moore - undrafted

See what I mean? Put value on the position. OLBs, WRs, CBs who win superbowls are found in the 1st. We need to be smart about how we draft. Id love DD, but really now, look at the evidence.
game.

 

[Dougmo]

I'd think if DeCastro was there, he'd be our pick.
I hear what you're saying about finding quality OG's in later rounds, but the talking heads say he's a sure thing (knocking on wood), and if we can get a 10 year starter with strong pro-bowl potential at any position (except kicker/punter) with pick #13, I'd think you take him.
I think that would be even more so for our offense with our need for athletic pulling guards (more important than some other offenses).

 

[Dougmo]

I know this is all hypothetical, but if we get calls from teams that may be needing safety help trying to move up why wouldn't we just pick Barron ourselves its not like we won't need help there in the near future, and for all we know the FO could have him ranked as a top 10 guy.

This could be, but we have 2 good safeties already. I would think AW has 2-3 more top-tier years left. We do need to be developing one behind them, but Barron is good enough to pretty much neccessitate playing time right away.
To me, Barron has alot more value to teams in desperate need for a safety. Low supply this year + big need = (relative) windfall for us.

 

[Bodha]

I'd think if DeCastro was there, he'd be our pick.
I hear what you're saying about finding quality OG's in later rounds, but the talking heads say he's a sure thing (knocking on wood), and if we can get a 10 year starter with strong pro-bowl potential at any position (except kicker/punter) with pick #13, I'd think you take him.
I think that would be even more so for our offense with our need for athletic pulling guards (more important than some other offenses).

Nothing Ever is guaranteed. That alone would scare me away. Usually the "safest picks" in drafts tend to be busts.

Aaron Curry
AJ Hawk

Patrick Peterson is NOT a bust, but he sure as heck wasnt NFL CB ready day 1 like they said he would.

Like Martin, I think you should take into consideration Luck inflating their stats. Hes a really good pass blocker because teams rarely sack Luck (or maybe its because Luck gets the ball out quickly...)

There is legit talent at 13 which I would deem pretty safe. Like Kuechly.

I like the prospect of having a lockdown player at a position for 10 years, but again, nothing is guaranteed. What if hes just average and we used a 1st rounder on a guard? Itd be one of those regretable Levi Brown type drafts. "We could have had...." Maybe Barron is the next Ed Reed. You know what I mean? Guards just do not have that much value.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Nothing Ever is guaranteed. That alone would scare me away. Usually the "safest picks" in drafts tend to be busts.

Aaron Curry
AJ Hawk

Patrick Peterson is NOT a bust, but he sure as heck wasnt NFL CB ready day 1 like they said he would.

Like Martin, I think you should take into consideration Luck inflating their stats. Hes a really good pass blocker because teams rarely sack Luck (or maybe its because Luck gets the ball out quickly...)

There is legit talent at 13 which I would deem pretty safe. Like Kuechly.

I like the prospect of having a lockdown player at a position for 10 years, but again, nothing is guaranteed. What if hes just average and we used a 1st rounder on a guard? Itd be one of those regretable Levi Brown type drafts. "We could have had...." Maybe Barron is the next Ed Reed. You know what I mean? Guards just do not have that much value.

If the League knew then what they know now about those guards you listed, they'd have been drafted much higher. You know what I mean?

A clean pocket may not be on a stat sheet, but the guy who helps contribute to that has true value. As does the ability to block effectively in the run game. There are no guarantees, but your preferences offer none either. Kuechly is a tackling machine, but we already have an emerging star (D-Wash) filling that role. You know what I mean?

We'll see on Draft night, but I doubt DD gets past the Red Birds.

 

[Bodha]

If the League knew then what they know now about those guards you listed, they'd have been drafted much higher. You know what I mean?

A clean pocket may not be on a stat sheet, but the guy who helps contribute to that has true value. As does the ability to block effectively in the run game. There are no guarantees, but your preferences offer none either. Kuechly is a tackling machine, but we already have an emerging star (D-Wash) filling that role. You know what I mean?

We'll see on Draft night, but I doubt DD gets past the Red Birds.

Id rather bust out on a skill position than busting out with a guard. Lets be real, BPA's are not created equal. If the next Janikowski was sitting there would you take him? Guy can drill field goals his own 60. Of course not. Thats exactly how I feel about "Top guards" because thats a ridiculous notion.

The fact that pro bowl, best in the game, guards can be found in late round is just a testament to good draft homework. Thats why whiz and company get paid the way they do to find those guys, not just take the easy to find, obvious ones like David, who come at a very steep price (a 1st round pick).

Having a solid pocket is fun, do we really have use for one? We barely even need to have a Oline out there at all with Kolb. Guy snaps and boogies. Skelton, yes, itd be good for but as long as theres this question of "who's our QB?" we shouldnt invest so many resources into protecting that unknown.

Next, windows. We have an elite D in position right now. We are a few pieces away from Ravens status playoffs bound defense. We went 7 out of our last 9 games because of defense. 100%. We cant be wasting time messing with our insignificant Guard postitions right now, we are within reach of greatness. Maybe this year we take David in the 1st. Maybe next year DWash walks and we have need at LB. Then Adrian retires. Then PP blows out his ACL. Then Kerry Rhodes becomes a full time interior decorator. My point is RIGHT NOW, 2012 season, we can add a player in this draft thatll make us contenders with this group we have right now.

Dont believe me, look at the Phoenix Suns and tell me windows dont close. We were within reach of multiple (MULTIPLE) titles at one point, but couldnt get past the Spurs and Lakers. Why? not enough defensive talent.

G is not a major need. We have the ability to built something elite THIS year by taking a WR or CB or LB, or whatever. Someone who makes a major, visible impact. The 2nd half of last year showed a team that was a legit contender. No homer. Im serious. Superbowl quality play in that 2nd half. We beat the nearly undefeated 49ers, dont forget. A Michael Floyd, or Melvin Ingram or, hell, even a Richardson, might be the final piece to making a push for it.

Win NOW mentality. Because we have a window right now, believe it or not. If we pass it up to "invest in our future", thatll be what weve been doing for the entire history of this team. Its always "next year". Yeah well next year we have new needs and variables change. I like David, I would take him any other time, but not THIS year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Seriously Boda, it makes no difference what the position is if it turns out to be a bust...a bust is a bust. Be it a guard or a WR, it is going to hurt one the same. A team does not set up its draft board for those they rank the highest without any faith or setting up a draft board would make no sense. You pay your scouts and you trust them along with your coaching staff. I do agree that the defense could be awesome and I tend to lean to a defensive pick as well in thinking the D could then be at a position now to really carry this team to something special, instead of spreading the picks to achieve an average team across the board. Average does not go far in the end. The only exception would be if someone like Blackmon fell to us, I would be all over it because with Fitz we would have another area of greatness possibly as we had when he was paired with Boldin. DeCastro would not be a bad pickup if he is what they say he is, and that is a rare guard in the mold of elite status (don't tell me players like Larry Allen did not make the whole line better from just the guard position alone, because he was that good). Luck is considered a rare QB that comes along every so often, DeCastro is the same to his position. I think the Cards are going to be making some hard decisions when their pick comes up.