Bartell should get the start if fall to 1-5..

[Russ Smith]

So what if he's thrown more passes we still don't know what we have in Kolb anymore than we know what we have in Bartel. That we are being asked to be patient and wait and see with a guy who has been in the NFL for 4+ years like he's some rookie speaks specifically to that.

My point was there's a large difference in the lack of experience between the 2. Kolb threw as many passes in one season at Houston as Bartel has thrown (in real games) since he graduated HS.

I'm not saying Bartel might not be good but if you're not there in practice watching him it's almost impossible to judge because he didn't play much in college and has barely played since.

If he turns out to be a good NFL QB he'll be an incredible outlier, Warner did it but it's incredibly rare.

I'm not asking you to be patient with Kolb you've made it perfectly clear what you think about him. I'm just saying he's not as comparable to Bartel as you seem to think, he has played MUCH more football since HS than Bartel has.

There's a metric I posted a year or two ago about what NFL people look for when evaluating NFL Qb's and much of it has to do with things like games started and completion % in college. Kolb actually meets most of that, Bartel doesn't really meet any of it. He's not just being overlooked because he's 28 and hasn't played much, there's a reason he's 28 and hasn't played much and it wasn't because he was stuck behind McNabb and then Vick.

 

[Duckjake]

My point was there's a large difference in the lack of experience between the 2. Kolb threw as many passes in one season at Houston as Bartel has thrown (in real games) since he graduated HS.

I'm not saying Bartel might not be good but if you're not there in practice watching him it's almost impossible to judge because he didn't play much in college and has barely played since.

If he turns out to be a good NFL QB he'll be an incredible outlier, Warner did it but it's incredibly rare.

I'm not asking you to be patient with Kolb you've made it perfectly clear what you think about him. I'm just saying he's not as comparable to Bartel as you seem to think, he has played MUCH more football since HS than Bartel has.

There's a metric I posted a year or two ago about what NFL people look for when evaluating NFL Qb's and much of it has to do with things like games started and completion % in college. Kolb actually meets most of that, Bartel doesn't really meet any of it. He's not just being overlooked because he's 28 and hasn't played much, there's a reason he's 28 and hasn't played much and it wasn't because he was stuck behind McNabb and then Vick.

But I never said Bartel was comparable to Kolb only that Kolb hadn't played that much for a guy 27 years old and that's why I don't know what to make of him. Throwing 449 passes in 4+ years in the NFL isn't really playing much. Not nearly enough to know what we have in him.

Once again you make assumptions and then start debating those assumptions.

 

[Russ Smith]

But I never said Bartel was comparable to Kolb only that Kolb hadn't played that much for a guy 27 years old and that's why I don't know what to make of him. Throwing 449 passes in 4+ years in the NFL isn't really playing much. Not nearly enough to know what we have in him.

Once again you make assumptions and then start debating those assumptions.

"we still don't know what we have in Kolb anymore than we know what we have in Bartel. "

That was your comment that I was replying to.

I made a comment about having no idea what to think of Bartel because he played so little, you said that is also why I don't know what to make of Kolb. I merely pointed out their inexperience is not really comparable, Kolb played TONS more football than Bartel in the last 8-9 years.

We have no idea how good Kolb can be but we know literally nothing about Bartel, I don't even know if he got promoted or if Skelton just got demoted.


All we do know about Bartel is when he had his chance in preseason he took advantage of it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

says the man who called AJ Jefferson a "real steal" in the pre-season and was thought Acho/Schofield were going to really help the pass rush... and consitently defended the FO's decision not to address the OT position... and was really confident in Roberts for our #2 WR... and basically thinks the overwhelming majority of any decision the Cardinals make is the right one. yeah... he's the confused one Canuck.

And I'll stand by the earlier comments. The season and beyond isn't over. I leave the day-to-day instant analysis to facile thinkers like you. But, I could be wrong, and you actually have the keys to a DeLorean.

 

[chickenhead]

I just don't really see why anyone would want to see Bartel if we're 1-5. If he starts the rest of the season, we'll just win approximately the same # of games we would have, maybe even less. The only reason you start Bartel (IMO) is if you want Kolb gone and think we can get luck. Or you're just frustrated and want to see him play a couple of games until we go back to Kolb.

 

[conraddobler]

I just don't really see why anyone would want to see Bartel if we're 1-5. If he starts the rest of the season, we'll just win approximately the same # of games we would have, maybe even less. The only reason you start Bartel (IMO) is if you want Kolb gone and think we can get luck. Or you're just frustrated and want to see him play a couple of games until we go back to Kolb.

Personally I've said more than once that we should go with Kolb for the whole year.

I would only want to see Bartel if Kolb got hurt this year, I have no desire to bench Kolb on this roster this year but I'm still curious about Bartel.

This thread I'd maintain is not stupid simply because you don't really worry about how much someone makes when you chose who plays, you shouldn't at least.

It should not be out of the realm of possiblity that Kolb could play bad enough to get benched this year, so far I see NO evidence of that but it's possible and should never be stupid to consider something like that especially on a team where we have ZERO proven starters.

Now if it was Tom Brady we traded for that would be different but it's not.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Well I think you guys WENT WAY OVERBOARD on this. I never said lets cut Kolb or Bartel is the main man. My point, and why I love to see the insults and the worst post of the year statements when I gave 3-4 REASONS why!!!!

Kolb was THROWN into this because of the lockout....he has tried really, really hard to learn our system and FItz stayed basically because of Kolb(IMO) So my assumption is(only a guess) is that Kolb is pressing...and pressing really hard to play well. QB's need to be calm...no stress...(ie Tom Brady and Rodgers) I said lets start Bartel for the simple reason...I think he is good...and if he does outplay Kolb who does it hurt??? If he doesn't play well...we know that Bartel wont help us. And Kolb can see this from the outside...ie like Warner!

Warner was benched for McCown for God's sake. Then we were so happy with Warner...we drafted Leinart!!!! And even though Warner tore up the NFL....we still started Leinart. (Another thing that shows to me Whiz is dumb...He basically got lucky to play Warner) Kurt went through exactly what Kolb is going through....In the end ...I think it worked out for Warner and us! Thank you very much.

The other major issue I said...is our schedule is so tough that if we lose alot of them...it wont matter how Kolb plays...He will be the scapegoat by most. Since most thought our major issue was QB...Mitch has pointed very astutely it is much more. But if we go 3-13...Luck could be there if we have the 1st pick. Wouldnt it be nice to be prepared?

 

[Jetstream Green]

no no no and no...because any hope of the team seeing him as a leader goes down the toilet for Kolb if we put Bartell in

 

[jmt]

Don't be silly.

 

[TheCardFan]

Just the fact that were talking about starting Bartel over Kolb is ridiculous.

Seriously?

 

[john h]

Kolb definitely needs to improve his pocket presence but Bartell, is very likely not the answer either. Skelton may have a chance and I don't see how he can be any more jitterish than Kolb has been,. In fact Skelton looked calm in the pocket. Still, you have to give KK time.

I think we gave away much to much for Kolb but that is history now. 4 games is not enough after all we gave up for him. He should play at least 12 games to get a real idea of what we have. If after 12 games he is not working out then try one of the other guys to see what they can do. Probably Bartel. It is going to be hard for the Cards and whoever signed on to Kolb to not start him. That would be an admission of a most horrible mistake and a loss of a lot of money. Coach Whiz is not likely to insert someone else if say Graves was the man behind the Kolb deal or if Bidwill Jr was behind the deal. Whiz will have enough trouble holding on to his own job if our failures continue.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Kolb has a grand total of 11 starts in the big league. You learn by playing, and I doubt very much that, short of injury, anyone else takes a snap this season.

 

[Mulli]

Kolb has a grand total of 11 starts in the big league. You learn by playing, and I doubt very much that, short of injury, anyone else takes a snap this season.

 

[vinnymac]

Everyone jumping off the Kolb bandwagon? I feel he is doing great under the circumstances. Wasn't a big Kolb supporter in the offseason, but he has prove me wrong just like Cam Newton has. Kolb is going to be a great QB for the Cardinals. We as fans should know there going to be some growing pains. The Cardinals have a running game now. Expect good things after the bye week.