Be careful what you wish for...

[Chris_Sanders]

Looking at Pierce's contract, he is going to opt out to get the max again for sure. It would be his last big deal.

I believe this is why the Celtics have been discussing trading him because it is unlikely he will stay with them.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Oh snap!

I think that you guys are arguing semantics. He said this year, which I believe that he is talking about 05-06. You are talking about the 06-07 year.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think that you guys are arguing semantics. He said this year, which I believe that he is talking about 05-06. You are talking about the 06-07 year.

Well everyone is talking about Marion's upcoming contract value.

Yes I suppose if you wanted to try to prove some strange point you could use next year's Marion salary and last year's Pierce salary, but I prefer to compare apples to apples.

 

[myrondizzo]

Oh snap!

for a mod you sure are childish. i was first making reference to azfinest who stated that marion was making 16 mil a year while complaining about his preformance this year. so i would assume he would be talking about the 05-06 season since we havent seen him play in the 06-07 season.

OT kinda wierd how posters started dropping off after changes were made to the mods on this board.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

for a mod you sure are childish. i was first making reference to azfinest.

Then why did you quote me?

you should post his correct salary.

I did at your request. If you were talking to Az Finest then I suggest you quote him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

OT kinda wierd how posters started dropping off after changes were made to the mods on this board.

Well as Elindholm has personally PMed me and said that it wasn't me that made him leave, I won't take exception to that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Anyway myrondizzo, I apologize if I made you mad with the Oh Snap comment. It's just what my friends say when someone tries to correct us.

I meant no ill intent and was actually smiling. Things don't translate well on the net at times.

 

[playstation]

Marion is anything but dispensible unless Amare is healthy and dominant. You are assuming too much here.

And your Pierce crusade is kind of silly. What has Paul Pierce done for Boston in the LEast? He doesn't play a lick of defense and is an average rebounder at best.

Yeah I am pretty sure that Boston would easily trade Marion for Pierce because it is a bad deal for us.

Paul Pierce in 05-06: 26.8ppg/ 6.7 reb/ 4.7 ast on 47% from the field and 35% from 3 (being a #1 option no less). he also took 10 FTA's/game.

Keep in mind, that given our situation, Marion will be playing MUCH more small forward next year, which mean much more on the perimeter.

You lose reb's with pierce, but a marion on the perimeter is not going to get as many either. pierce is also your backup pg (with LB, bell, amare, and diaw, we're still devastating even with nash on the bench).

so would i trade marion for pierce? yes

I'd also trade him for kevin garnett out of the people that could potentially be available this summer. to me, that's not a putdown. nobody's 'untradeable'. i wouldn't give marion up for picks or anything, just one sure thing for another...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well we are back to my original point.

There is no guarantee that Marion will be playing the 3 next year. That is the best case scenario. I would love to believe that Amare is going to be back but I have my doubts

 

[playstation]

Well we are back to my original point.

There is no guarantee that Marion will be playing the 3 next year. That is the best case scenario. I would love to believe that Amare is going to be back but I have my doubts

put it this way, if marion is NOT playing the 3, winning a title is again a long-shot. the reason for this is that with marion having to hold down the fort at big man positions, we can only play one way. champions can play in any number of ways (dallas can now do this).

if amare is chronically injured, than the whole conversation is moot imo. i agree i'd rather have marion at the 4 than pierce, but i don't like either option. conversely, i'd rather have pierce at the 3 than marion.

 

[nowagimp]

Okay - I have been the lead captain on the trade Marion bandwagon so i will make my point about this and be done with it.

Let me start by saying this about Marion: Many of us were shocked and dismayed when we selected Shawn 9th over Corey Maggette. I thought this was a mistake. You thought this was a mistake. Dick Vitale thought this was a mistake. The Suns must be given all the credit in the world for that pick. Marion is probably the best ‘second jumper’ in the NBA. His jump shot has been refined enough where its passable. His length causes many steals and he is on of the top five players at finishing on the break. He rebounds unlike any other guy his size. I LOVE Shawn Marion. I just wish he was on his rookie contract still. Here’s why you trade him -

$$$$$$$: You see here is the problem with paying a Super utility player 16 million a year. That money, in this salary cap age, is reserved for players who you can build around. The current system in the NBA in order to stay below the luxury tax is have a superstar – a superstar lite a good third option and then role players. Those first three players and especially those first two HAVE to be players who you can lean on when others get injured. They have to be carry the team in some way. Shawn cannot do this. Think about it for a second. What characteristic defines Shawn’s excellent play in Phoenix. Well for 8/10’s of his time here he has had the best PG in the league on his team. This can’t be overstated enough. Jason Kidd and Nash just make players better. Especially guys like Shawn who you can’t just give the ball to and get out of the way. Shawn played well when Steph was here but he was clearly the third best player behind Steph and Amare. Do you remember after we traded Steph to NY who our best player was. Good ol’ Joe Johnson.

Ok so we have established that he cant create his own shot. And at 16 million, that’s real expensive for a role player. Think about this – guys like Wade, Lebron, and Kobe will make 16 million a year (under the new CBA) – do you think those guys would have just a little more impact than Shawn does on team success. Of course. But his salary isn’t the only reason I think we should trade him while his value is high….

He is replaceable: Honestly guys. Igoudala, Richard Jefferson, Desmond Mason, JR Smith and maybe even a guy like Stromile Swift would get close to Marion’s production on this team. Marion is an athletic freak at the three, but there are a lot of those in the league. And the ones that make 16 million are the ones who have a jump shot.

He complains too much: If Marion just cashed his check, did his thing with the obscene numbers, and that was enough, I would be less against trading him. But damn he is constantly whining. That’s got to wear on the other guys when they are obviously concerned with W’s. I just don’t get it. He plays in Phoenix. He is on a championship type team. He makes crazy money. He plays with the perfect PG in the perfect system for his skills. He is a consistent all-star and has made all NBA a couple times? Whats wrong with this picture? Are you kidding me? Should’nt we just trade him to Milwaukee and give him a taste of life on the other side (Desmond Mason = Shawn Marion lite)

He doesn’t fit into D’Antoni’s system: How many times you think Shawn has missed a wide open jumper or a three and D’Antoni has thought….”Man a guy like Kyle Korver would have hit that shot” The point is Mike likes shooters. Especially at the three position. He would let the 4 and 5 do all the dirty work inside if he had a three who could shoot. Why do you think he moved Marion to the PF anyway. His system doesn’t work if the three can’t shoot…

His value is as high as it will get: I think we could use him in a package for a superstar. I think we could trade him and get back a young stud. I think a lot of teams are Shawn Marion away from being really good. Taking on his contract will be a problem but that thing has to be running out soon right? Couldn’t be more than three years (This contract has been never ending in my mind…..). When he gets older (like in a couple years) his value plummets without his insane athleticism. Lets get something for him before he turns into old Shawn Marion

He doesn’t play THAT good of defense: I always felt he played great perimeter defense and I was telling everyone he would be the x-factor in the Dallas series because he was Nowitzki’s match-up nightmare. Just put Shawn on him and let it be. Well Nowitzki absolutely killed us and when he didn’t it seemed like TT was guarding him. Say what you want about Howard needing to be guarded but if Dirk is what makes that team go – Shawn should be on him. When we were up 77-70 in Game 5, That should have been Shawn’s call to arms right there. No way Nowitzki should go off like that for 50 points…..but he did.

He can be game planned out. See here’s the dirty little secret about Shawn. He makes 16 million a year, but if a opposing coach decides to game plan for him, he can be rendered completely useless. Shawn gets all these points and rebounds because – Well why the hell would you worry about Marion when Nash, Amare, and even Diaw are so much more important to the game plan? But when he is focused on (see 2005 WCF) he is a non factor. That’s why he is so damn inconsistent in the playoffs. Because coaching and defense are heightend and they take him out of the game plan. Conversely look at a guy like Wade. You think the Mavs were game planning for him? Yeah I would guess so. But he still gets his 42 and 13. That’s what superstars do. And if you are making 16 million – like it or not you are in the superstar tax bracket.

So do I want to get rid of Shawn for nothing? Hell no. But it’s a confluence of factors here. He is IMO our fifth most important player to team success. (Nash, Amare, Diaw and Bell are ahead of him) He makes a TON of money (More than all those guys I think) He has inflated trade value (as all Suns do which is an added benefit to D’Antoni;’s system) and he gripes WAY to much. And I mean way to much. We can’t go three months without some Shawn Marion bitching and whining comments. And I can’t for the life of me understand it. Everyone gets on Sprewell fro saying he can’t feed his family. Well Shawn can feed his family, is a NBA star, plays for a winner and still whines? What will happen if things go south. Do you have confidence Marion will be the team leader to right the ship? I don’t…..

I want to win next year. Depending on the package, I’m not sure we can get in return for the ‘06-‘07 what Marion will give us so I am not saying we SHOULD trade him. It’s not my money though. If it was up to me, I would just keep adding salary. But we live in the real world and we know Sarver’s limitations. And Marion is an expensive luxury to have. So while I understand why many Suns fans don’t want to trade him and think it will hurt the team (which for next season is likely as they would probably take back young players and cap space) you have to consider the alternative. Marion is our most replaceable/ expensive asset. Sooner or later it will come to a head. Would you rather trade Diaw or Amare? I don’t think so………

I agree with some of the post but:

1) "he's replacable": on that list, only Richard Jefferson is of shawn's caliber, RJ is a complete stud, and the nets would laugh at that trade.

2) "He complains too much , bothers the other players": ask them, we just read sensationalized news articles that seek controversy.

3) "doesnt fit into D'antonis system": OK so a guy who plays several positions, is the teams most versatile defender(helps player rotations), runs like a deer from one end to the other in 3 sec and finishes, gets 2 stl/game to feed the fast break offense, rebounds strong on a weak rebounding team doesnt fit the system? The only area he doesnt fit is in passing and outside shooting where he shoots 35% career from three(same as prince by the way) in BOTH playoffs and regular season. I think that players like shawn are needed in the system to make up defensively for players like Amare, TT, Nash.

4) he doesnt play that good a defense, disappeared agains the mavs with the suns up 77-70: Correct, he went to the bench with his 4th foul(disappeared alright) and Nowitski proceeded to shred the suns for 10 consecutive pts. Kind of says the suns are alot better with him than without. Nowitski was getting all kind of touch fouls against Marion and TT as I recall, while suns were being thumped in the lane without a call. The real problem with that game was admitted by Jason Terry: plan was NOT to guard Bell(injury), collapse into the lane, shut down the penetrators. Once TT got into foul trouble, the outside shooting went to almost zero. So we blame Marion when you have guys like Barbs, Nash and Bells obviously debillitating injury?? Question, who was guarding Jason Terry and how did that work out? Answer: when shawn was switched onto him, he as ineffective, yet the spurs and heat could not control terry, the second leading scorer on the mavs. Gee, shawn was guarding terry and nowitski and Howard, the three best mavs for ~45 mins/game, sounds brutal as an assignment. Could Bowen, prince, or artest do that and score 20ppg and grab 11 rebs and 2 steals/game?? Maybe prince could, though he's never done it. Shawn does other high energy things than play on-ball D.

"He can be game planned out": this can be said of alot of star players. The problem is who will make them pay for the adjustments, someone MUST step up since their defender is likely being used to limit shawns effectiveness. If other suns hit their outside shots, game planning shawn out will just play into the suns hands, give them open shots. Shawn had more points in the paint than any SF in the NBA and shot 52%.


Do I think the suns should trade Marion? Not this year, but probably next year due to his excessive contract. Win the championship, and he probably is worth even more to a prospective trade partner. Lets just take stock here: Raja doesnt get a calf tear, this years suns team had a good shot to win it all. Get KT and a 90% Amare(already throwning down windmill dunks) and this team is probably a favorite to win it all. The value of keeping players together, instead of swapping continuously, has strong merit, especially for the most active passing team in the NBA.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

He's replacable with JR Smith or Desmond Mason????

How do you even say that and believe it? One of the big fallacies here is that Marion's production is a product of the system. Marion has been putting up nearly identical numbers regardless of who he plays with or the system.

At least with Paul Pierce he is a good player, if all you are interested in is scoring.

Excellent I am glad you brought this up. Am i saying Desmond Mason or JR Smith are equals as players to Shawn Marion. Not at all. But Marion has been the league alot longer than both guys but lets assume they never get to his point production.

What I am saying is that I would rather have Desmond Mason (I imagine he would average 16 ppg and 8 rebounds on our team) at 8 MILLION that I would rather have Shawns 20 and 10 at 15.1 Million. For another 8 million dollars you can get an integral piece/starter for your team that woule COMPLETLY eclipse the production of Marion (see Bell, Raja). First of all two 8 million dollar contracts allow for more flexibility and trading of assets. If one guy goes down - its not a complete loss. Mason is an athlete in a league where 28 of the teams have no idea how to utilize athletes. You can think what you want but I am quite confident I have watched more NBA basketball and Suns basketball than most and my knowledge on the subject is quite large. So the casual fan would look at my comaprisons of athletic small forwards and say "Desmond Mason does not equal Shawn Marion" Well thanks for the news flash. But when you account for things like salary, wasted production on bad teams, the ability to get better, and what these other players numbers would be on the Suns PLUS the fact that you can use that difference in salary on another player who can address your weaknesses (defense, rebounding, etc) than what i am saying makes alot more sense.

Its this closed tunnel-player loving point of view that relegates the fans to the armchair and the GM's to the decsion making. We can't live in this utopic box where players are just evaluated on what their numbers are. That's naive. There are many other factors and i spoke to those in my previous post. You can disagree but it's hard to say that if you had to choose between the main foursome and then you factor in that Shawn is the highest paid - somethings just not right there. Nash, Diaw, and Amare are all worth more than Marion to even the casual fan and you can't have you cake and eat it too. If we were the Knicks this wouldn't be an issue. But we ain't.....and thank god for that...

 

[LakeShowMan]

In the words of Ron Burgandy, "Agree to disagree".

Yes, 'When in Rome...'

 

[Covert Rain]

Some of these responses are freaking funny. Marion is not dispensible even with Amare coming back 100%. What one of the previous posters said was right on. Short of getting Kevin Garnett to take his spot, Marion is anything but dispensible.

This team had both players on the roster last year and didn't get it done. The rest of the NBA and the Suns management knew the team needed more defense and rebounding. So they went out and got Kurt Thomas. So Suns management knew with Amare and Marion they still needed more.

Now some of you want to take one of the best rebounders and defenders on the team and get rid of him? So if the Suns management felt that having Amare and Marion TOGETHER was not enough, why would that same managment feel that getting rid of Marion helps the team???

Common sense says they don't. First off, Amare, Marion and Kurt never got to play together. So they still don't know if that will work. Kurt already proved he could run with the team. So, why not see how good this team can be. After all, the Suns management feels it can work, feels it will make the team better. However, some of you would be GM's know more then the Suns.

All of this changes should we be able to get KG. However, there are tons of chat rooms and message boards across the NBA that are having the same conversation about getting KG. Chances are we won't get him.

So trading one of the best if not the best small forward in the NBA is not only dumb but unless you can replace his defense and rebounding, this team is WORSE then the last 2 years and has no chance at a title.

PS. Saying Marion doesn't fit this system is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum. You need Marion to make the system work. This system depends on outside shooting and athleticism. The mere fact that Marion was near the top all season in dunks means easy buckets. This system doesn't work without easy buckets. So your right Marion doesn't fit the system at all.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

The point is, 1st, Marion is definitely dispensible in this system. 2nd, he can't initiate offense. So, if Amare is not back healthy, we wouldn't have a chance with Marion, again. In that case, why sticking to him anyway? And, more importantly, if we for example could get Pierce for Marion, we'd have much better chance to win the title next season even without Amare healthy. We wouldn't win a championship on defense alone anyway, we need to keep our offense sharp enough under the playoff conditions.

I don't agree that Marion is dispensible. With our size and style of play, we need exeptional rebounders at every position, and Marion is the best rebounder in the league, pound for pound.

 

[Phill11]

I don't want Peyton Manning, I want Tom Brady. You guys can throw out all the statistics you want, but when it comes down to it he disappears every year in the playoffs. Regular season does us no good. I agree that we probably have a better shot at a title next year if we keep Marion. But if you guys want to remain competitive long term, then we must seriously consider letting Shawn go. Shawn will be traded this year or next. It just depends on when you want to do it.

He doesn't dissapear. He just doesn't do as he did in the regular season.

I think that is because we depend on him too much. I think when Amare comes back he will easily get 20/10 in the playoffs next year.

Shawn is a true player and I'd hate to see him traded anyway for anyone.

 

[nowagimp]

Some of these responses are freaking funny. Marion is not dispensible even with Amare coming back 100%. What one of the previous posters said was right on. Short of getting Kevin Garnett to take his spot, Marion is anything but dispensible.

This team had both players on the roster last year and didn't get it done. The rest of the NBA and the Suns management knew the team needed more defense and rebounding. So they went out and got Kurt Thomas. So Suns management knew with Amare and Marion they still needed more.

Now some of you want to take one of the best rebounders and defenders on the team and get rid of him? So if the Suns management felt that having Amare and Marion TOGETHER was not enough, why would that same managment feel that getting rid of Marion helps the team???

Common sense says they don't. First off, Amare, Marion and Kurt never got to play together. So they still don't know if that will work. Kurt already proved he could run with the team. So, why not see how good this team can be. After all, the Suns management feels it can work, feels it will make the team better. However, some of you would be GM's know more then the Suns.

All of this changes should we be able to get KG. However, there are tons of chat rooms and message boards across the NBA that are having the same conversation about getting KG. Chances are we won't get him.

So trading one of the best if not the best small forward in the NBA is not only dumb but unless you can replace his defense and rebounding, this team is WORSE then the last 2 years and has no chance at a title.

PS. Saying Marion doesn't fit this system is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this forum. You need Marion to make the system work. This system depends on outside shooting and athleticism. The mere fact that Marion was near the top all season in dunks means easy buckets. This system doesn't work without easy buckets. So your right Marion doesn't fit the system at all.

You speak too much sense steel dog. Sometimes a history of discussion on a particular topic does not allow people to hear sensible discourse. Its seems like people want shawn to "save the day" no matter how shallow the bench is or how poorly the suns execute. By that logic, If DWade scores 39pts instead of 42 the other night, he's a bum and the heat are down 3-0, as good as gone.

Some responses seem to indicate that some suns fans are trying to win the "salary cap" and not the championship. Marion was rated by ESPN as the 2nd best small forward in the NBA in this years playoffs, behind only Lebron James. People keep taking about consistency, but almost no player has been consistent in this years playoffs(RIP chauncey, Rasheed, Tony Parker, Manu, Vinsanity, RJ, Dirk, and even Sam Cassel have all been inconsistent). I think that the incoinsistency has been caused by more advanced game plans than in the regular season that attack players tendencies. It has been happening for a very long time in the NBA playoffs. I think I can forgive shawn for not being as consistent as Lebron, Tim Duncan, or DWade.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You speak too much sense steel dog. Sometimes a history of discussion on a particular topic does not allow people to hear sensible discourse. Its seems like people want shawn to "save the day" no matter how shallow the bench is or how poorly the suns execute. By that logic, If DWade scores 39pts instead of 42 the other night, he's a bum and the heat are down 3-0, as good as gone.

Some responses seem to indicate that some suns fans are trying to win the "salary cap" and not the championship. Marion was rated by ESPN as the 2nd best small forward in the NBA in this years playoffs, behind only Lebron James. People keep taking about consistency, but almost no player has been consistent in this years playoffs(RIP chauncey, Rasheed, Tony Parker, Manu, Vinsanity, RJ, Dirk, and even Sam Cassel have all been inconsistent). I think that the incoinsistency has been caused by more advanced game plans than in the regular season that attack players tendencies. It has been happening for a very long time in the NBA playoffs. I think I can forgive shawn for not being as consistent as Lebron, Tim Duncan, or DWade.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

Guys - No one is saying Marion is not a "pound for pound" the best rebounder. No one is saying he doesn't help the team win. No one is even saying that trading Marion makes us a better team (which is why I am saying we should go for it all next year and NOT trade him this off-season)

But lets look at the facts. There really is no conceding these points. He makes TOO much money for what he does. He is the fourth best player on our team in terms of W-L's behind Amare, Nash, and Diaw. He is constantly griping. The people in the trade Marion camp are not Marion haters - they are just realistic. Can't keep all these guys and who else are you going to trade. I'm of the opinion that Nash, Amare and Diaw and their respective skill sets are LESS replacable than Shawn. I don't even think thats up for debate.

The debate isn't wheteher Marion is a important/great player on our team. Thats not even debatable. The argument is do you want to maximize what we can get for him now and get enough back to still make a title run OR do you want to get rid of one of those other three players after next season. Personally I don't. Stick to the points guys. No one wants to trade Marion just for the sake of getting rid of him. But in the NBA you have to assess next years title viabailiy vs long term health. Its a valid debate. But PLEASE stop just listing his attributes cause we are all watching the games. If you want to make our title run next year and keep everyone together thats a valid point of view. But if you want to get what you can now while his value is at an all time high.....well that needs to be considered too. But like i said.....We can't keep them all after next season......So pick your side.....

 

[sly fly]

AZ Finest:

$$$$$. By that rationale, Kevin Garnett isn’t worth the contract he has. Are you saying Garnett is a role player? Check their numbers.

Replaceable? I’ll go down the list of names you gave:
- Richard Jefferson. Has he played through a full season w/o being seriously injured?
- Iguadola. Perhaps. But, don’t ask him to lean on Lamar Odom or Elton Brand… which Marion was asked to do.
- JR Smith. I’ll pretend you didn’t even list him here.
- Kyle Korver. See above.

Complains too much? Come on. You have to take what Marion says with a grain of salt. Half the time I don’t think he knows what he’s saying.

Doesn’t fit into D’Antoni’s system? You mean the system in which Marion was playing near MVP levels for most of the year?

His value has peaked? Yeah, and there are teams out there who are wanting to fleece the Suns… and make us pay for the next 5 years. Like I said, “Be careful for what you wish for”.

He doesn’t play that good of defense. Defense isn’t all about staying in front of your man. It’s the intangibles. Tipped balls, running the break after a steal, help D, etc . Not a lock-dock down defender, but better than most small forwards.

If Marion end up beng dealt, you will see why he was so important over the long-stretch of a season. Why mess with a good thing? Hell, let's see what happens with this core group all healthy. This team will be favored to win the title next year, provided Amare is back to form. What more could we ask for?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

Guys - No one is saying Marion is not a "pound for pound" the best rebounder. No one is saying he doesn't help the team win. No one is even saying that trading Marion makes us a better team (which is why I am saying we should go for it all next year and NOT trade him this off-season)

But lets look at the facts. There really is no conceding these points. He makes TOO much money for what he does. He is the fourth best player on our team in terms of W-L's behind Amare, Nash, and Diaw. He is constantly griping. The people in the trade Marion camp are not Marion haters - they are just realistic. Can't keep all these guys and who else are you going to trade. I'm of the opinion that Nash, Amare and Diaw and their respective skill sets are LESS replacable than Shawn. I don't even think thats up for debate.

The debate isn't wheteher Marion is a important/great player on our team. Thats not even debatable. The argument is do you want to maximize what we can get for him now and get enough back to still make a title run OR do you want to get rid of one of those other three players after next season. Personally I don't. Stick to the points guys. No one wants to trade Marion just for the sake of getting rid of him. But in the NBA you have to assess next years title viabailiy vs long term health. Its a valid debate. But PLEASE stop just listing his attributes cause we are all watching the games. If you want to make our title run next year and keep everyone together thats a valid point of view. But if you want to get what you can now while his value is at an all time high.....well that needs to be considered too. But like i said.....We can't keep them all after next season......So pick your side.....

You never want to get rid of a player so late that you handicap your team for years, but you have to evalaute the risk, most teams that change out ther stars are struggling francises that need a change in direction the risk is low. If the Suns were an average team like the Pigbury years or Kidd years I would agree, a change might do some good, but the Suns are on the brink of a title removing Marion with all his shortcommings at this time would be amazingly foolish. There are always options and oppourtunities to move dead weight contracts at the end of the season, I say explore those then.

The Suns have essetially been in rebuilding mode since the mid 1990's please tell me where this has worked in terms of titles? Thinking ahead is always dandy but sometimes you just need to sack it up and go for it, this is one of those times. I think it's time to keep the core this year and make a run at the title in 2006-2007.

 

[Gaddabout]

This being right after Gaddabout said "No one is saying trade Marion for junk."

It's a conspiracy to make me appear the fool. I claim no one's opinion but my own.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm obviously not going to change anyone's mind but I'll cast my vote: don't trade Shawn this summer - even for KG. I've disliked Shawn's contract from day 1 and probably would have supported trading him last year after his bad series against the Spurs but now we're too close to risk a major shake up and he did better in the playoffs. As far as his complaining goes, I hope he keeps it up because the more he whines the better he plays.

 

[Joe Mama]

As many of you know I'm not necessarily against trading Shawn Marion, but I am not one of those who be happy dumping him for salary relief and draft picks. I would make a KG trade if it was possible in a heartbeat. Otherwise it would have to be a really sweet deal for me to be happy it.

As Chris and others have pointed out it's hardly a lock Amare Stoudemire is going to come back completely healthy. In fact I expect he probably won't look like the Amare of old for some time if at all.

Joe

 

[George O'Brien]

I about fell off my chair when I saw a post stating we need to "consider trading Marion". Consider? It has been debated endlessly for the last three years. Is this debate going to be endless? It sure seems that way.

This is not about whether the Suns should consider a deal if someone offered a great trade. It is all about whether the Suns should shop Marion and take whatever the least bad offer turns out to be. In any case, there are some implied assumptions that I simply don't buy.

1. That what the Suns should have done four years ago matters. No it doesn't. It doesn't matter if the Suns should have taken Maggette, if they should have waited for RFA free agency offers rather than tying Marion down to a max deal, if they should have taken Prince, etc. Doesn't matter. The past is past. Get over it. Dumping Marion does not undo any of it.

2. The belief that the Suns can trade Marion for an equally talented player for less money and save the difference in cap space. In the world of cap economics, this is not possible. In practical terms the only way that can be done is to give Marion away to a team with the cap space and then hope to sign a lower priced free agent. What never seems clear is why the team with the cap space wants Marion rather than the lower priced guy.

3. There are lower priced guys AVAILABLE who can replace Marion. The list of lower priced guys changes every year (remember when Peja was everyone's favorite before his major playoff meltdowns?) My problem with most of these suggestions is that these guys aren't ACTUALLY available and certainly not for Marion. Usually the bargain guys are on rookie contracts, so they won't remain affordable for long.

4. Marion is too expensive for the Suns, but he not equally too expensive for the team to be traded for. Obviously he's not too expensive if the team can unload untalented cap killers on the Suns, but trading for value is a different story.

5. Marion is too expensive because he's not very good at making his own shot. But everybody is supposed to want him even though they need a guy who can make his own shot more than someone on a team with Nash.

6. Marion's value is very high right now. Yes, a lot of teams would like him from a basketball standpoint, but that doesn't mean they'll pay the price of both his big contract AND somebody worth having. BTW, Korver isn't one of them.

7. That Marion is going to become less valuable in the future. On the floor, there is no reason to think he's going to less valuable just because his stats aren't as high. Whle Marion is a stat filler, his value isn't just stats. In terms of trade value, he may become more valuable simply because with fewer years the total amount of his contract will be less. In the last year of a contract, expiring contracts are extremely popular.

8. Marion whins so he needs to be traded. If whinning was all that counted, I'd suggest checking into the reputation of many of the people being considered in trade.

9. Marion is not a good fit for the Suns AND Marion's success is entirely due to playing in the Suns system. I haven't figured this one out since it's not only contradictory, but IMHO both views are wrong.

I don't expect to convince any of the dump Mario crowd that they are wrong. This doesn't mean that Marion won't get traded, but I seriously doubt that shopping him would produce a favorable outcome.

 

[cly2tw]

Is Amare gonna be healthy as he was? If yes, we'd win it all even if we just dumped Marion's contract for the cap, as long as we keep others on the team including TT. If we get any of the players of Pierce, Desmond Mason, Iguadala, Dalembert, Deng/Songaila, etc. We'd be even more of a lock.

If Amare failed to regain his dominance, then the team would be again without a reliable go-to scorer, with the highest paid player Marion easily to be game-planned out as in years past. We might win it all still, despite of him though as we have been close the last couple years. Yet, say with Pierce replacing Marion, we'd be the favorite to win it all even if Amare is only 1/2 the player he was, because our offense wouldn't be shut down as it was in this year's WCFs. Marion's defender could slack off him to put a lot more pressure on the other 4 suns players and wear them down over the course of games. Our offense became gradually stagnant consequently.

Hypothetically, if he was only making 8mil while we could have Mason for the other 7mil from the cap his contract occupies, we might be OK again. See, it's the combination of how he plays the game and how much he makes that suggests that it's the best for the Suns to trade him for other assets, in order to maximize both short and long term perspective of team success.