Better Rebounding Team W/O Marion?

[Skumbag]

Last 5 games according to nba.com says that our avg rebound margin is -1.00 team rpg.

Thats pretty good I think. I was expecting a lot more of a difference.

 

[nowagimp]

Last 5 games according to nba.com says that our avg rebound margin is -1.00 team rpg.

Thats pretty good I think. I was expecting a lot more of a difference.

Dont be blinded by the stats. The suns outrebounded the warriors(the worst rebounding team in the NBA) by 15, which would add 3 per game in that time span.

 

[jbeecham]

Dont be blinded by the stats. The suns outrebounded the warriors(the worst rebounding team in the NBA) by 15, which would add 3 per game in that time span.

I thought we were the worst rebounding team in the NBA?

 

[Skumbag]

Dont be blinded by the stats. The suns outrebounded the warriors(the worst rebounding team in the NBA) by 15, which would add 3 per game in that time span.

Yeah but they're the only team worse than us. And statistically close to our averages.

 

[green machine]

It shows more that Marion was an opportunistic rebounder, and without him the Suns have guys who can grab those very same rebounds.

 

[nowagimp]

I thought we were the worst rebounding team in the NBA?

Week to week its nip and tuck between suns and warriors. It also seemed that nellie played alot of smallball, smaller than the suns. Jackson was guarding amare a good part of the night, biedrins didnt play alot. When Biedrins sits the warriors are, on paper at least, much worse than the suns in rebounding. If you take away that one game and just use the previous 5, the stats will be alot different(-4rpg?). Lesson: dont allow an ususual sample to skew the statistics.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

It still boggles my mind that we didnt just feed amare the whole game so he could punish jackson in the paint. Amare could foul out the whole warriors starting lineup with the amount of double teams he would have.

 

[Covert Rain]

It shows more that Marion was an opportunistic rebounder, and without him the Suns have guys who can grab those very same rebounds.

That just means Marion was better and going and getting the ball then other players on our team who are now forced to step up.

In Grant's own words he was used to staying "out of there" and now has to get used to getting back "in there" until Shaq comes in.

Also, Marion is rebounding just as well in Miami. I think we can put to rest Marion is not a great rebounder debate.

 

[green machine]

That just means Marion was better and going and getting the ball then other players on our team who are now forced to step up.

In Grant's own words he was used to staying "out of there" and now has to get used to getting back "in there" until Shaq comes in.

Also, Marion is rebounding just as well in Miami. I think we can put to rest Marion is not a great rebounder debate.

Marion is the same type of rebounder in Miami that he was here: opportunistic.

 

[Covert Rain]

Marion is the same type of rebounder in Miami that he was here: opportunistic.

Everybody has an opportunity for a rebound. The players who are the most hungry get the rebounds. Marion is one of the best.

 

[mathbzh]

Sometime he reminds me Rodman

 

[Griffin]

Week to week its nip and tuck between suns and warriors. It also seemed that nellie played alot of smallball, smaller than the suns. Jackson was guarding amare a good part of the night, biedrins didnt play alot. When Biedrins sits the warriors are, on paper at least, much worse than the suns in rebounding. If you take away that one game and just use the previous 5, the stats will be alot different(-4rpg?). Lesson: dont allow an ususual sample to skew the statistics.

That game did show however that the Suns can be a good rebounding team, or at least a team that doesn't get killed on the boards, given effort and, most importantly, no size disadvantage. Some argued vehemently that the Suns' rebounding woes are mainly a byproduct of DA's system. But we run in that game as much as we run any other night, and GS did crash the boards whenever they could. But it is much easier to get rebounds when the other team is smaller (or no bigger) than you are.

Also, I am not surprised to see Hill rebound more. He is getting a lot of the boards that would go to Marion, and Hill has been a good rebounder throughout his career. Wish Diaw could do the same.

 

[cly2tw]

Sometime he reminds me Rodman

That's an insult to the craftmanship of Rodman. Shawn is nothing like Rodman besides the size.

 

[jandaman]

It shows more that Marion was an opportunistic rebounder, and without him the Suns have guys who can grab those very same rebounds.

that doesnt make sense...

Marion for his size is one of the best of all times... so who isnt an opportunistic rebounder?...

Practically every great rebounder is half opportunistic.. half HUGE... Marion rebounds as well as them without being huge... oh.. Rodman was like that too... obviously he was stronger.. but he was undersized... used quickness and instinct.. just like Marion.


Stop hating.. he averaged 18/10/2 for the Suns... he's great.

 

[cly2tw]

Practically every great rebounder is half opportunistic.. half HUGE... Marion rebounds as well as them without being huge... oh.. Rodman was like that too... obviously he was stronger.. but he was undersized... used quickness and instinct.. just like Marion.

.

Did you really watch Rodman rebound? He was the best positional rebounder of all time. He relished fighting positions with the strongest of them, outtricking them, for rebounds. Using quickness advantage was only a small part of the whole package, while it's the only means Marion has for rebounds. But he is great at getting the numbers though. But they are in different leagues completely, despite Marion's numbers.

 

[mojorizen7]

Sometime he reminds me Rodman

Not even fricken close.

 

[mojorizen7]

that doesnt make sense...

Marion for his size is one of the best of all times... so who isnt an opportunistic rebounder?...

Practically every great rebounder is half opportunistic.. half HUGE... Marion rebounds as well as them without being huge... oh.. Rodman was like that too... obviously he was stronger.. but he was undersized... used quickness and instinct.. just like Marion.


Stop hating.. he averaged 18/10/2 for the Suns... he's great.

No Marion/Rodman comparison's please.

 

[tobiazz]

(Oops, wrong thread)

 

[green machine]

that doesnt make sense...

Marion for his size is one of the best of all times... so who isnt an opportunistic rebounder?...

Practically every great rebounder is half opportunistic.. half HUGE... Marion rebounds as well as them without being huge... oh.. Rodman was like that too... obviously he was stronger.. but he was undersized... used quickness and instinct.. just like Marion.


Stop hating.. he averaged 18/10/2 for the Suns... he's great.

What I mean is Marion was the quickest leaper and one of the highest leapers and he got to rebounds that usually is teammates could have gotten, but since Marion is quicker he got them first.

He didn't get them from boxing out or doing anything like that, he just had more athletic ability.

Not to take away from him, it's his skill and he uses it well, but that's why I think the rebounding hasn't really suffered without him because instead of Marion flying into a pile of 2 other Suns to take the rebound away from a teammate the teammates are now able to get the boards themselves.

 

[mathbzh]

That's an insult to the craftmanship of Rodman. Shawn is nothing like Rodman besides the size.

I knew there would have such reactions

I don't compare Marion to Rodman, I just mean that SOMETIME Shawn appetite for rebound remind me of Rodman (who is obviously a player in his own category). I believe that with a better attitude Diaw could be the rebounder Marion is (he is bigger and has comparable athletism).

 

[mathbzh]

Did you really watch Rodman rebound? He was the best positional rebounder of all time. He relished fighting positions with the strongest of them, outtricking them, for rebounds. Using quickness advantage was only a small part of the whole package, while it's the only means Marion has for rebounds. But he is great at getting the numbers though. But they are in different leagues completely, despite Marion's numbers.

They are also in different leagues according to numbers. Rodman was ALSO one of the best opportunistic rebounder.
I stop there, I didn't mean to compare Marion to Rodman.

 

[Covert Rain]

Did you really watch Rodman rebound? He was the best positional rebounder of all time. He relished fighting positions with the strongest of them, outtricking them, for rebounds. Using quickness advantage was only a small part of the whole package, while it's the only means Marion has for rebounds. But he is great at getting the numbers though. But they are in different leagues completely, despite Marion's numbers.

I am not sure I complete agree with this statement. I remember Rodman in many Bulls games getting rebounds by playing angles and having the most amazing skill at timing his jumps and knowing what angle the ball was coming off the rim. I was much more impressed with those skills then his skills to battle down low to get rebounds.


So when someone makes those comparisons I get it. Rodman was a better all around rebounder but I think Marion is a better all around player.

 

[nowagimp]

So when someone makes those comparisons I get it. Rodman was a better all around rebounder but I think Marion is a better all around player.

Yup, marions skill set is way more developed than rodmans ever was. Rodman was notably better at boxing out and position defense, he was just smarter at those things. In just about all other areas, marion is better than rodman was. Rodman could only contribute offensively with several other much more dangerous offensive options occupying the defense. Marion is faster than rodman ever was as cutter without the ball or as an on-ball defender at the '2' or '3'.

 

[cly2tw]

I am not sure I complete agree with this statement. I remember Rodman in many Bulls games getting rebounds by playing angles and having the most amazing skill at timing his jumps and knowing what angle the ball was coming off the rim. I was much more impressed with those skills then his skills to battle down low to get rebounds.

.

Yours actaully supports mine by adding that Rodman perfected rebounding as an art. He always seemed to use the right means to secure the rebound, be it boxing out, finding the angle, or simply outjumping someone. If you looked closer, you might have observed that he often strategically tricked his opponents into suboptimal position/timing while timing it just a bit better than the others, just like how the best martial artists do it to win a fight. That's why I said it being an insult to compare Marion's rebounding to his.

Let's agree on Rodman being the all time best rebounder and move on.

 

[BC867]

.. he averaged 18/10/2 for the Suns... he's great.

Among other things, a great player makes those on his team better by his performance.

Marion's 10 rpg did not help the rest of the team. The Suns were among the worst rebounding teams in the NBA, and that is a fact.

Marion's stats an individual accomplishment? Yes.

Marion's stats a team accomplishment? Unfortunetely, no.

His presence actually stood in the way of the team's total success.

Shaq is a better Center than Amare. Amare is a better Power Forward than Marion. Marion's departure made that happen.