Bill Simmons calls out Sarver

[Lefty]

Gotta love Bill Simmons.
http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-sarver-dan-gilbert-2011-9

 

[AzStevenCal]

Gotta love Bill Simmons.
http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-sarver-dan-gilbert-2011-9

I like Bill Simmons but I think he's making something out of nothing and it's mostly because he can't stand Sarver. I find it hard to believe that two of the least respected owners in the NBA could wield enough power to have any kind of real impact on these negotiations.

The simple truth (or MY simple truth) is that agents were forced out of this game during a previous CBA conflict and now they feel the situation is such that they can force their way back in. These agents have been working towards this for quite awhile and it's neither a surprise nor a revelation. This war is made even more vicious because of the dire economics the league is facing in all but a small handful of markets.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Bill Simmons might have a point about Sarver but is he really way off?

The current system doesn't work on many levels. It's not just because Sarver sucks as an owner.

 

[Griffin]

For what it's worth, here's a related report from ESPN:

"Owners and players initially found reason for optimism during Tuesday's meetings. Commissioner David Stern and Peter Holt, the head of the owners' executive committee, felt that the players' proposal to take 52 or 53 percent of basketball-related income, compared to 57 under the previous agreement, was basically fair, sources said. Owners were seriously considering coming off of their demand for a salary freeze and would allow players' future earnings to be tied into the league's revenue growth, a critical point for players. The owners also were willing to allow the players to maintain their current salaries, without rollbacks, sources said. But when the owners left the players to meet among themselves for around three hours, Cleveland's Dan Gilbert and Phoenix's Robert Sarver expressed their dissatisfaction with many of the points, sources said. The sources said that the Knicks' James Dolan and the Lakers' Jerry Buss were visibly annoyed by the hardline demands of Gilbert and Sarver."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31994/thursday-bullets-218

 

[AzStevenCal]

For what it's worth, here's a related report from ESPN:


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31994/thursday-bullets-218

Yeah, I don't find it hard to believe that Sarver (or Gilbert) is being a pain in the ass. I just find it difficult to believe they'll have much of an impact in the long run. Unless one or two owners can actually veto a proposal I don't think this will matter much in the long run. Neither of those guys seems the type to be able to generate support from other owners.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

It's kind of funny that Sarver would take a hard line for contract rollbacks when the Suns don't really have any terrible long-term contracts. Childress's is the worst, but compared to what a lot of other teams have, even it isn't that bad.

 

[Azlen]

Here's an article that breaks down the rumored feelings of each owner. It seems to paint other owners as much more hard line than Sarver.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31683/nba-owners-bargaining-positions

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a link to a Bickley article at azcentral dated 9-17-11. I'm not a fan of Bickley however I'm not a fan of Sarver either. I so wish Sarver would sell the Suns if he cannot play with the big boys.

The recent developments only exacerbate Sarver's unfortunate legacy: He is the man squandering the prime of Steve Nash's career, an unforgivable sin on Planet Orange.

Though NBA Commissioner David Stern has denied a growing rift among owners, an ESPN report said New York Knicks owner James Dolan and Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss were "visibly annoyed by the hard-line demands of Gilbert and Sarver." In the past, there have been similar stories of Stern rolling his eyes at Sarver's audacity, or chewing him out for improper behavior.

Except this time, it triggered a skewering series of tweets from ESPN's Bill Simmons, who has nearly 1.5 million followers. One of them is the Suns' point guard, and Nash encouraged his own legion of followers to "check out (Simmons') twitter rant now!"

That included a Simmons plea for Sarver to just "go away."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...17phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-labor-storm.html

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The problem over the past months and even the last year is that owners such as Sarver, Sterling, and Gilbert, were the ones actively involved in the negotiation process and, if im not mistaken, were part of a small group of owners who were involved in this process from day 1.

 

[BC867]

The first two -- no, make that three -- paragraphs of the article are nothing for us to be proud of. Where do the Suns go from here?

Laughingstock owners are not new to Arizona. Once, it was Bill Bidwill. Now it's Robert Sarver.

The Suns owner no longer is just a local irritant. To the national media, he is an obstructionist, one of two men most responsible for the NBA lockout. Along with Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert, they are portrayed as the buffoons in the room, the reason for no season.

The recent developments only exacerbate Sarver's unfortunate legacy: He is the man squandering the prime of Steve Nash's career, an unforgivable sin on Planet Orange.

 

[Cheesebeef]

wow... even Nash is throwing Sarver under the bus, huh? about time. next stop... demand a damn trade when the lockout's over so we don't have to watch you waste the rest of your career Steve!

 

[Griffin]

There are some conflicting reports as to what exactly is Sarver's stance on the cap issue:

This illustrates the complexity of the situation, and why the “large-markets-are-doves/small-markets-are-hawks’’ equation doesn’t work. For instance, while it’s long been reported that Phoenix’s Robert Sarver is a hawk, two sources close to the situation insist he’s one of the biggest doves in the ownership ranks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32025/some-big-market-owners-hawkish-on-hard-cap

 

[elindholm]

I think this is one of those situations where journalists and fans with almost no real information choose the narrative that best fits their preconceived bias.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think this is one of those situations where journalists and fans with almost no real information choose the narrative that best fits their preconceived bias.

and players like Steve Nash, who are probably involved or at least well versed in negotiations, as well?

 

[Griffin]

and players like Steve Nash, who are probably involved or at least well versed in negotiations, as well?

Did anybody actually bothered to check out Nash's twitter to see what he said? The only comment he made was to tell people to check out Simmons' rant when re-tweeting Richardson's original tweet.

RT @jrich23: @sportsguy33 have some great points about NBA lockout. All fans should see what he have to say.(Go check his twitter rant now!)

And immediately people, including Bickley, jump to conclusions or try to turn it into a story just from that. Nash even replied to one person:

RT @mucorey: @SteveNash Btwn u & ur GF RT'ing @sportsguy33 Sarver rant, suppose ur days as a Sun are over? (Nah. I'm a SUN but NBAPA 1st)
15 Sep

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did anybody actually bothered to check out Nash's twitter to see what he said? The only comment he made was to tell people to check out Simmons' rant when re-tweeting Richardson's original tweet.


And immediately people, including Bickley, jump to conclusions or try to turn it into a story just from that. Nash even replied to one person:

read between the lines. Nash didn't have to say ANYTHING about Simmons' rant which specifically skewers our owner. He's not so stupid to then respond again about the team. He said enough just mentioning it.

 

[Bert]

Nash: "Nah. I'm a SUN but NBAPA 1st"

Not sure how that gets perceived as Nash defending Sarver...

 

[Griffin]

read between the lines

With Nash's single six-word sentence comment, I just don't think there are enough lines to read between. How much can you really infer from that simple statement he made?

Nash didn't have to say ANYTHING about Simmons' rant which specifically skewers our owner. He's not so stupid to then respond again about the team. He said enough just mentioning it.

I would bet anything that if Simmons' rant did not mention Sarver but only Gilbert, Nash would have posted the same comment. Richardson did (and I would guess other players reacted too), and he's not a Sun anymore. What was his motive?

Nash: "Nah. I'm a SUN but NBAPA 1st"

Not sure how that gets perceived as Nash defending Sarver...

Why is he supposed to be defending him? Why is there an assumption that if he is not explicitly condemning him then he must be defending him? Or vice versa?

I would not be surprised at all if Nash doesn't have the highest option of Sarver and probably wishes the Suns had a different owner as we all do, but I don't think you can really infer that from any comments he made publicly. Nor do his comments indicate in any way that he wants to be traded, as some already begun to speculate. I think if Nash ever asks for a trade, we won't know about it until he's actually traded.

 

[Bert]

With Nash's single six-word sentence comment, I just don't think there are enough lines to read between. How much can you really infer from that simple statement he made?

I would bet anything that if Simmons' rant did not mention Sarver but only Gilbert, Nash would have posted the same comment. Richardson did (and I would guess other players reacted too), and he's not a Sun anymore. What was his motive?


Why is he supposed to be defending him? Why is there an assumption that if he is not explicitly condemning him then he must be defending him? Or vice versa?

I would not be surprised at all if Nash doesn't have the highest option of Sarver and probably wishes the Suns had a different owner as we all do, but I don't think you can really infer that from any comments he made publicly. Nor do his comments indicate in any way that he wants to be traded, as some already begun to speculate. I think if Nash ever asks for a trade, we won't know about it until he's actually traded.

I didn't say it was either way. That's why I said I couldn't see how that was him defending him. Seemed like simply a show of support for the union.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

More Sarver hate. Remember when basketball people used to like and respect the Suns front office?

"They have the right to resent owners such as Phoenix’s Robert Sarver, who’ve brought no value to the league, who’ve done nothing to make franchises better.

Sarver has received a lot of blame for his hard-line leanings in these talks, but one ownership voice dismisses his gravity. “I don’t think he has any importance in the room, because he’s always shooting his mouth off,” one high-ranking NBA official with access to the talks said. “I’m not sure anyone’s paying attention to him. Stern is still running things there.”"

 

[AzStevenCal]

More Sarver hate. Remember when basketball people used to like and respect the Suns front office?

"They have the right to resent owners such as Phoenix’s Robert Sarver, who’ve brought no value to the league, who’ve done nothing to make franchises better.

Sarver has received a lot of blame for his hard-line leanings in these talks, but one ownership voice dismisses his gravity. “I don’t think he has any importance in the room, because he’s always shooting his mouth off,” one high-ranking NBA official with access to the talks said. “I’m not sure anyone’s paying attention to him. Stern is still running things there.”"

That's been my point all along in this thread. I find it hard to believe that Sarver could control, cajole or manipulate these negotiations in any way. Reading between the lines, over his tenure, I believe he's viewed more as a buffoon than anything else.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's been my point all along in this thread. I find it hard to believe that Sarver could control, cajole or manipulate these negotiations in any way. Reading between the lines, over his tenure, I believe he's viewed more as a buffoon than anything else.

this is probably true... which is even more unfortunate.

we went from the classiest owner in the league to the *******-ist owner in the league... next to Dan Gilbert probably.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

this is probably true... which is even more unfortunate.

we went from the classiest owner in the league to the *******-ist owner in the league... next to Dan Gilbert probably.

Yep, that was my point, going from one of the most respected organizations to a running joke. I can't help but be a little bitter towards Jerry for leaving the team in such poor hands. My favorite team has turned into a laughing stock, with little hope in the short/long term.

 

[elindholm]

Yep, that was my point, going from one of the most respected organizations to a running joke.

BWAHAHAHAHA, "running," I get it, good one.

But seriously, what you write is dead on target. That's one of the reasons that I don't have much hope for the Suns over the next, oh, 10 or 15 years. Building a team that has a serious chance at the conference finals more often than not -- let's not get dragged down into what qualifies as a "contender" -- is darned difficult. The Suns clearly don't have the talent or ownership to get back there any time soon. Given that probably around half the teams in the league haven't been at that level in ages, what should give us any confidence that the Suns will figure out a way to get back into the ranks of the elite?

 

[Cheesebeef]

BWAHAHAHAHA, "running," I get it, good one.

But seriously, what you write is dead on target. That's one of the reasons that I don't have much hope for the Suns over the next, oh, 10 or 15 years. Building a team that has a serious chance at the conference finals more often than not -- let's not get dragged down into what qualifies as a "contender" -- is darned difficult. The Suns clearly don't have the talent or ownership to get back there any time soon. Given that probably around half the teams in the league haven't been at that level in ages, what should give us any confidence that the Suns will figure out a way to get back into the ranks of the elite?

unfortunately agree.