Bill Simmons wants Kobe on the Suns

[dodie53]

Here's a fun trade possibility:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~1966&teams=13~13~22~5~22~21~5~13~13~22~21~13

See if you can come up w. something stupider than that.

Z and odom to the suns..

center - Z
PF - odom
SF - jones
SG - LB
PG - diaw

wow.
stupid thread..

 

[hsandhu]

Kobe aint getting traded. But if by some chance he does, the question is what would you rather have if you're the lakers:

gordon/deng/#9 (that almost certainly would be chicago's offer, they can't put in tyrus thomas, or all they have is hinrich/kobe/wallace, not any better than the lakers now, except in the east)

or

marion/barbosa/atl 2008/#24/#29

The first offer is better, because deng is 5/6 years younger than marion and gordon is a little better than barbs (although barbs has a higher ceiling).

The only way the suns could get kobe, is to somehow convince him behind the scenes that the suns are the only place he wants to be traded, that with the suns he'll win ringS, in chicago it's still gonna be tough.

Also maybe swap boris for kwame (bad contract for bad contract, but one player actually has talent), although i'm not sure the base year comp implications with boris

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kobe aint getting traded. But if by some chance he does, the question is what would you rather have if you're the lakers:

gordon/deng/#9 (that almost certainly would be chicago's offer, they can't put in tyrus thomas, or all they have is hinrich/kobe/wallace, not any better than the lakers now, except in the east)

you forgot about Nocioni also - Hinrich, Kobe, Nocioni and Wallace is good enough, especially defensively to beat probably anyone in the East. They could even throw Thomas in there and that foursome is still better than the Cavs, who look like they have a shot to beat a tired Pistons club which only gets older by the minute.

 

[elindholm]

Kobe aint getting traded. But if by some chance he does, the question is what would you rather have if you're the lakers:

gordon/deng/#9

Fails under the CBA.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If Mitch Kupchak is an average GM then I'm not sure what a poor GM looks like. Seriously, has the guy ever made one move that could be considered great? He's at best one of the ten worst GM's in basketball but realistically he's one of the five most inept.

 

[hsandhu]

Fails under the CBA.

As cheese said, I forgot about Noc. But you're right this is difficult for chicago to put together a trade. P.J. brown's contract runs out july 1, can they trade him before then with the current number?

If not, I dont know how the bulls can do this. I used to be an expert on cap stuff, then stopped caring much. Any answers? Noc is also a free agent, you can't sign and trade either him or p.j. with other players. Hinrich has a bigger number but is a byc.

Other than including
a) ben wallace
b) half their roser
c) getting a third team, and why would anybody want to help another team get kobe

how can they do it?

P.S.: Simmons trade FAILS, but he puts the condition that p.j. comes off the books, but he ignores that hinrich's extenstion kicks in, and he makes 8 million more

 

[elindholm]

P.J. brown's contract runs out july 1, can they trade him before then with the current number?

I answered this in another thread only a few hours ago. The answer is no, Brown cannot be traded.

Noc is also a free agent, you can't sign and trade either him or p.j. with other players. Hinrich has a bigger number but is a byc.

That's correct.

Other than including
a) ben wallace
b) half their roser
c) getting a third team, and why would anybody want to help another team get kobe

how can they do it?

They can't.

P.S.: Simmons trade FAILS, but he puts the condition that p.j. comes off the books, but he ignores that hinrich's extenstion kicks in, and he makes 8 million more

I like Simmons, but he doesn't know much about the CBA.

 

[hsandhu]

I answered this in another thread only a few hours ago. The answer is no, Brown cannot be traded.



That's correct.



They can't.

Wow, so other than getting a third team involved, they can't do this (or if lakers are dumb enough to take wallace).

Man, why is the sports media so damn incompetent? Everybody has chicago at the top of the list if this happens, but they ignore the small fact it essentially cant.

A competent guy like stein even missed this. Chris Sheridan almost got it, saying it would be difficult, but can be done with signing and trading noc, but of course that can't happen.

 

[hsandhu]

Man, I guess we are the only team that can reasonably do this because, (howard is a byc for dallas, it can only be dirk):

a) of salary reasons
b) having enough assets after the trade to be a real contender, what kobe wants
c) having some pieces to move

That at least will put in a good mood for the next hour. Of course no way it's happening, but with our fortune the past few weeks i'll take anything I can get.

 

[AsUdUdE]

I really think the following trade would work well for both teams:

Suns Trade

Shawn Marion PTS: 17.5 REB: 9.8 AST: 1.7
Leandro Barbosa PTS: 18.1 REB: 2.7 AST: 4.0
James Jones PTS: 6.4 REB: 2.3 AST: 0.6
#29
2008 ATL pick

Suns Recieve:

Kobe Bryant PTS: 31.6 REB: 5.7 AST: 5.4
Vladimir Radmonivic PTS: 6.6 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.2

The Lakers get a Perrinial All-Star in Marion, a potential All-Star and leading Scorer in Barbosa, a 1st round pick this year and a potential high lottery pick next year to build toward the future. This trade gives them a chance to win 50 games next year, and still be built for the future with a rotation of:

PG: Farmar
SG: Barbosa
SF: Marion
PF: Odom
C: Bynum
Bench: Jones, Turiaf, Walton, draft: Derrick Byers?, #29-Ante Tomic?

The Suns will meanwhile boast a linup of:

PG: Nash
SG: Kobe
SF: Bell
PF: Diaw
C: Amare
Bench: Radmonivic, Rose, KT, #24-Splitter?

With a potential 7 man rotation with Diaw and Nash facilitating the offense, they could litterally average 120 a game, and still improve their overall team defense form 2007.

It is important to note, this trade could not go through unless BOTH Nash and STAT emphatically endorsed this idea, as well as kobe, but if all parties agree, this is a 70 win team...

I think this is still unlikley, but I also believe if the suns offer this deal, it is the best deal the lakers could possibly hope for in exchange for Kobe....

Thoughts

 

[hsandhu]

I really think the following trade would work well for both teams:

Suns Trade

Shawn Marion PTS: 17.5 REB: 9.8 AST: 1.7
Leandro Barbosa PTS: 18.1 REB: 2.7 AST: 4.0
James Jones PTS: 6.4 REB: 2.3 AST: 0.6
#29
2008 ATL pick

Suns Recieve:

Kobe Bryant PTS: 31.6 REB: 5.7 AST: 5.4
Vladimir Radmonivic PTS: 6.6 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.2

The Lakers get a Perrinial All-Star in Marion, a potential All-Star and leading Scorer in Barbosa, a 1st round pick this year and a potential high lottery pick next year to build toward the future. This trade gives them a chance to win 50 games next year, and still be built for the future with a rotation of:

PG: Farmar
SG: Barbosa
SF: Marion
PF: Odom
C: Bynum
Bench: Jones, Turiaf, Walton, draft: Derrick Byers?, #29-Ante Tomic?

The Suns will meanwhile boast a linup of:

PG: Nash
SG: Kobe
SF: Bell
PF: Diaw
C: Amare
Bench: Radmonivic, Rose, KT, #24-Splitter?

With a potential 7 man rotation with Diaw and Nash facilitating the offense, they could litterally average 120 a game, and still improve their overall team defense form 2007.

It is important to note, this trade could not go through unless BOTH Nash and STAT emphatically endorsed this idea, as well as kobe, but if all parties agree, this is a 70 win team...

I think this is still unlikley, but I also believe if the suns offer this deal, it is the best deal the lakers could possibly hope for in exchange for Kobe....

Thoughts

No way that laker team wins 50. If they trade kobe, they will be worse, the only reason to do it is if he forced it.

That laker team will at least have some young pieces (players/picks), and all-star talents like odom/marion to prevent them from falling off the map, and maybe contendtng for the playoffs.

But again, it's not a positive move for the lakers, the only reason to trade kobe is if he makes them. Fans arent paying big bucks to see that team above.

 

[fordronken]

Why does everybody keep putting Raja at small forward? He's a whole lot smaller and a much worse post defender than Kobe. I really can't think of a small forward match up in the playoffs that would really concern me against Kobe, other than LeBron. But unless the Cavs get three more decent players on that team, I can't see them beating the Suns anyway.

 

[playstation]

we still have nobody to stop parker and nobody to stop duncan. we'd be a superstar team that will once again lose to the spurs.

it would be crazy fun to watch though. kobe coached by his idol telling him to run his ass off for easy points. we'd actually slow down as a team without marion and barbosa though.

at that point, i'd rather we run a half-court offense. also, both kobe and nash need the ball to be effective. i don't see kobe being a catch and shoot guy. it really doesn't make much sense.

 

[fordronken]

we still have nobody to stop parker and nobody to stop duncan. we'd be a superstar team that will once again lose to the spurs.

That's a little misleading. Amare and Kurt do a solid enough job on Duncan. Nobody can stop him. Parker is a bigger problem, but I actually kind of like Kobe on him. He did it at times in their playoff series in the past and did a pretty good job.

Then there's the other side. The Spurs would have to totally change their defensive scheme. If you still put Bowen on Nash, then, well, who the heck is gonna guard Kobe? So that means you've got Bowen on Kobe, Parker on Nash and whoever the other wing player is, just sitting on Raja Bell to not give up open shots. If you trap Nash, he gives the ball to, arguably, the greatest basketball player on the planet. And he can score in single coverage on anybody. So that means you can't trap Nash AND double Kobe, or you're giving up threes. It's a nightmare. So either you're letting Kobe beat you one-on-one or you're letting Steave Nash pick you apart.

Oh, and then there's Amare Stoudemire in the paint. The guy you can double off of is Diaw, but then you're still only doubling Kobe or Nash.

Needless to say, I'll take that team. I'd love to add a guy like Matt Barnes, so we could even go SUPER small and see if the Spurs want to run their offense through Francisco Elson in a big playoff game.

 

[az1965]

we still have nobody to stop parker and nobody to stop duncan. we'd be a superstar team that will once again lose to the spurs.

it would be crazy fun to watch though. kobe coached by his idol telling him to run his ass off for easy points. we'd actually slow down as a team without marion and barbosa though.

at that point, i'd rather we run a half-court offense. also, both kobe and nash need the ball to be effective. i don't see kobe being a catch and shoot guy. it really doesn't make much sense.

Sorry, Spurs are very beatable. We were 2-2 weren't we? Game 3 was given to them on golden platter and we almost pulled it out. We also have someone by the name of Amare who is also pretty much unstoppable, well, except by his own stupid fouls. We just need to toughen up to play the muggers and don't let them get inside our heads.

 

[TBaslim]

I really think the following trade would work well for both teams:

Suns Trade

Shawn Marion PTS: 17.5 REB: 9.8 AST: 1.7
Leandro Barbosa PTS: 18.1 REB: 2.7 AST: 4.0
James Jones PTS: 6.4 REB: 2.3 AST: 0.6
#29
2008 ATL pick

Suns Recieve:

Kobe Bryant PTS: 31.6 REB: 5.7 AST: 5.4
Vladimir Radmonivic PTS: 6.6 REB: 3.3 AST: 1.2

The Lakers get a Perrinial All-Star in Marion, a potential All-Star and leading Scorer in Barbosa, a 1st round pick this year and a potential high lottery pick next year to build toward the future. This trade gives them a chance to win 50 games next year, and still be built for the future with a rotation of:

PG: Farmar
SG: Barbosa
SF: Marion
PF: Odom
C: Bynum
Bench: Jones, Turiaf, Walton, draft: Derrick Byers?, #29-Ante Tomic?

The Suns will meanwhile boast a linup of:

PG: Nash
SG: Kobe
SF: Bell
PF: Diaw
C: Amare
Bench: Radmonivic, Rose, KT, #24-Splitter?

With a potential 7 man rotation with Diaw and Nash facilitating the offense, they could litterally average 120 a game, and still improve their overall team defense form 2007.

It is important to note, this trade could not go through unless BOTH Nash and STAT emphatically endorsed this idea, as well as kobe, but if all parties agree, this is a 70 win team...

I think this is still unlikley, but I also believe if the suns offer this deal, it is the best deal the lakers could possibly hope for in exchange for Kobe....

Thoughts

Hmmmmm...Going to play the contrarian here.

(Not that a trade for Kobe will ever happen. Kobe had his chance to be a Sun the year we signed Nash - and I think he and the Suns Brain Trust independently considered the pairing for about 30 nanoseconds and then moved on to other things.)

But it is fun to speculate...Kobe is a heck of a player.

Would Kobe in a lineup with Nash, Bell, Diaw and Amare be silly good? Sure - it would be a fantasy team at times. We know there is mutual respect at least between Coach D and Kobe, Nash and Kobe, Amare and Kobe.

Are the Suns really better with the Mamba and Vlad the Injured vs Marion, Barbs and JJ? Not sure. We lose depth, rebounding, defense against forwards, and overall team scoring and possibly ball movement. We gain a few assists and bunch of free throws. We gain another crunchtime, playoff scorer/performer.

Add in the fact that Barbs still has upside to improve, both in scoring and play making, while what you see is what you get with Kobe and Vlad (and Marion and likely JJ).

In the end, it would be wildly entertaining to have Kobe run with Nash and Amare, but I don't think it guarantees a ring. KG for Marion doesn't either, but probably fits more of what this team needs. It still isn't perfect, though.

The Suns need a *&##$% bench. Plain and simple. Keep the team intact and figure out a way to get a damn bench. Let the young players grow another year (LB and Diaw in particular). Be able and willing to run a legit 9-10 deep, throw in a few more practiced half court sets feeding Amare 5 more touches a game, and win the next 2 or 3 rings.

 

[elindholm]

Man, I guess we are the only team that can reasonably do this because

I wouldn't go that far. Utah could offer Boozer and Williams. Dallas could offer Howard, Terry, and Harris (which works in spite of Howard's BYC status). Detroit could offer Hamilton and Prince. There are other deals out there.

 

[cly2tw]

When Kobe comes to Suns, you could bet that Nash goes the other direction to Lakers. Nobody will accept Marion and the core piece for a franchise player like Kobe.

 

[cly2tw]

I wouldn't go that far. Utah could offer Boozer and Williams. Dallas could offer Howard, Terry, and Harris (which works in spite of Howard's BYC status). Detroit could offer Hamilton and Prince. There are other deals out there.

Dallas would have to go Dirk + Howard + Terry for Kobe/Radmanovich/Walton.

 

[Gee!]

When Kobe comes to Suns, you could bet that Nash goes the other direction to Lakers. Nobody will accept Marion and the core piece for a franchise player like Kobe.

So its a forgone conclusion?

I would hate to see the Kobe experiment on this team..

Send Kobe to Charlotte..

 

[elindholm]

Dallas would have to go Dirk + Howard + Terry for Kobe/Radmanovich/Walton.

There is absolutely no chance that Dallas would make that trade. Nowitzki is the reigning MVP and Howard is an All-Star just entering his prime.

 

[cly2tw]

There is absolutely no chance that Dallas would make that trade. Nowitzki is the reigning MVP and Howard is an All-Star just entering his prime.

Yet, like Suns, Mavs problem is that the composition of their team is not ripe for a consistent run for the title. They really need to change it. Howard is a better version of Marion, an all around great utility player.

 

[arwillan]

I wouldn't go that far. Utah could offer Boozer and Williams. Dallas could offer Howard, Terry, and Harris (which works in spite of Howard's BYC status). Detroit could offer Hamilton and Prince. There are other deals out there.

why would you the jazz do that? did you watch deron williams this post season? hes amazing and only in his second year. Boozer is only 25 and very very good as well, thats their entire future. no way would they bother trading that. The pistons wouldnt bother trading hamilton and billups, especially since billups is a free agent this coming year. having one scorer like kobe goes away from their entire gameplan of spread out scoring. not to mention that the lakers dont want billups and hamilton who are both old and cant do anything to rebuild a team. The mavs wouldnt trade howard, not a chance. hes probably the most consistent player on their team. terry and harris can be dealt though, but thats not nearly enough for kobe. the suns deal is better for both sides than all of those.

 

[TBaslim]

ON a related note: Do the Lakers have to trade Kobe? No - but they are in a real pickle as a franchise (and it is wonderful to watch).

I think they made a fundamental miscalculation in handing the franchise keys to Kobe a couple of years ago...but not for the reasons most people would say (personality, primadonna, etc).

No, they screwed up because he is a shooting guard. By far the best shooting guard in the world, and best in the last decade. But still a SG. If you look throughout league history, shooting guards not named Jordan do not deliver titles by themselves.

Sorry, Laker fans, but it is true. And don't bring up Rick Barry's 70's Warriors. He was a small forward and it was a bizzaro year when they won.

The list of teams that featured one great SG and a mediocre supporting cast does not bode well for the Lakeshow future. Ray Allen's Bucks, Gervin's Spurs, Drexler's Blazers (before they got a frontline), Wade's Heat before Shaq, Pierce's Celtics (until Jefferson matures), and on and on. All entertaining teams, but none winning a title or coming very close.

With the exception of Jordan's Bulls, titles in any era of this league come from superb big men (either 4's or 5's) paired with great guards (more often PG, but can be a SG - Drexler, Wade are examples) and supporting casts that are well balanced across required roles (shooters, defenders, etc).

It hurts my FastBreaking Suns heart to admit it (since it would be a hoot to see an all-world PG, an all-world SG and 3 guys under 6-7 race to multiple titles), but history proves it out.

Kobe is great, but he is not Jordan. Maybe, just maybe, he could have come close in a previous era, with the old man-to-man defense rules that rewarded good isolation players and showered riches (in the form of foul shots and room to operate) on the truly great iso players. But not with the current rules.

The limited zone D allowed today negates much of the bonus that having the 'best isolation player in the world' used to give a team. I actually think Jordan would struggle under today's rules to dominate as much as he did (still would win rings, but fewer).

So, the Lakers should have resigned Kobe and made it clear he was not going to get to be Jordan Part 2. He would get to be Kobe, and they would find a suitable big man to chase titles with him.

Oh well, most of the league is probably not crying for the Lakers mistakes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I wouldn't go that far. Utah could offer Boozer and Williams. Dallas could offer Howard, Terry, and Harris (which works in spite of Howard's BYC status). Detroit could offer Hamilton and Prince. There are other deals out there.

Lots of other teams could put together nice packages, but Kobe has to sign off on it. No way he would go to Utah, especially if they are losing Williams/Boozer. Same with Detroit losing Hamilton/Prince.

Dallas is a possibility though.