Bill Walton

[lancelet's cousin]

Everyone has covered anything I'd want to say.

Except that Bill Walton annoyed me the entire game until he spit out this gem:

"A kick to the groin, always an effective defensive play".

That one got a smile out of me.

 

[scotsman13]

yea i cant tell you how many times during the playoffs this year that i wanted to be out there with them, just to do this to some player from the other team.

i remember hearing about some player who used to make a jab at the other players gut as they were going up for a jump shot. this would cause them to throw their shot off. he only had to hit one person before word got around that he would hit you as you went up for a shot before other players started flinching away.

 

[JPlay]

I was watching this scene of Dr.J and I think George Gervin talking about the playoffs and championships.

They were saying that defense wins championships because there is going to come a point where you need stops.

And it was so true. The Suns were in the game or leading almost every game in the 4th when they just couldn't stop the Spurs from making a big play. Either Manu driving or B.Barry hitting threes or Duncan getting an Offensive rebound.

 

[elindholm]

It's just a quesiton of which cliche you want to adopt. You could also say that you need a go-to scorer to win a championship, for those times that you absolutely have to get points on the board.

The only thing that's really true is that you have to outscore the other team to win. That means that your offense against their defense has to be better than their offense against your defense.

 

[George O'Brien]

The reason defense has such an advantage is that refs stop calling fouls. Defensive teams are better suited to take advantage of the rough stuff.

I know D'Antoni doesn't agree, but the Suns need a real enforcer who can also score. Right now Amare is their only really physical inside guy and the Suns cannot afford to have him in foul trouble. The key to beating the Suns is to be able to attack the basket and teams know they won't get slammed onto the floor when they do it. Against the Spurs, it was a fatal flaw.

 

[JPlay]

It's just a quesiton of which cliche you want to adopt. You could also say that you need a go-to scorer to win a championship, for those times that you absolutely have to get points on the board.

The only thing that's really true is that you have to outscore the other team to win. That means that your offense against their defense has to be better than their offense against your defense.

Defense wins championships is a fact. Look at the teams left. What is the number one thing Phil Jackson stresses. IT's Defense.

The Spurs outscored us by not allowing us to be as explosive as we usually are. Their offense was better than our defense. Our offense wasn't better than their defense. They have balance on both sides.

 

[Evil Ash]

JPlay we were in every single game this series with an absolutely horrid defense. Its not the only thing that results in winning championships.

I wouldn't even say our main problem is defense. In fact I'd say the key problem that has hurt us all year has been REBOUNDING. We gave up way too many chances for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances at the basket. I don't care if you have one of the best defensive teams in the league, if you keep giving teams opprtunities they are going to score.

Quit acting like we lost by 50. We were in every single game. It takes ALL aspects of a game to win a championship ... not just defense

 

[Cheesebeef]

JPlay we were in every single game this series with an absolutely horrid defense. Its not the only thing that results in winning championships.

I wouldn't even say our main problem is defense. In fact I'd say the key problem that has hurt us all year has been REBOUNDING. We gave up way too many chances for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances at the basket. I don't care if you have one of the best defensive teams in the league, if you keep giving teams opprtunities they are going to score.

Quit acting like we lost by 50. We were in every single game. It takes ALL aspects of a game to win a championship ... not just defense

yeah - but giving up offensive boards is part of playing bad defense. I don't think Jplay is acting like we lost by 50 - he's merely pointing out our biggest weakness - which undoubtedly is getting stops (against the Spurs anyway).

 

[Chaplin]

yeah - but giving up offensive boards is part of playing bad defense. I don't think Jplay is acting like we lost by 50 - he's merely pointing out our biggest weakness - which undoubtedly is getting stops (against the Spurs anyway).

Of course, actually MAKING baskets on the offensive end of the floor helps too, you know.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Of course, actually MAKING baskets on the offensive end of the floor helps too, you know.

it DOES? Holy cow Chap? Are you serious?

Again - JPLAY isn't DISSING our offense - he's talking abotu BALANCE - he comes out and says it. It's not rocket science - what are you guys getting all up in a huff about about? When we absolutely needed to get stops we couldn't in this series - that was the biggest problem on the team - no?

 

[Evil Ash]

yeah - but giving up offensive boards is part of playing bad defense. I don't think Jplay is acting like we lost by 50 - he's merely pointing out our biggest weakness - which undoubtedly is getting stops (against the Spurs anyway).

Not neccesarily. You don't have to be a good defensive team in order to BLOCK OUT. We were out hustled with regularity for loose balls and rarely used proper technique to block out for a rebound. Guys like Marion and Amare relied heavily on their freak athleticism to get the board. We were lucky that this didn't bite us in the ass more in the regular season.

Yeah I probably went to far on JPlay (sorry dude having a rough day) but it really came across that the only thing that will win us a title is if we become a defensive club. In which case we would have to change our game to a slow down pure halfcourt game that this team is not made for. Yes we can improve our defense but we don't need to ignore other aspects of our game that need improvement and change our game totally in order for us to win a title.

Our D just needs to improve to a mediocre level and to box out for boards. Do that and add a little depth to this team and we're talking dynasty

 

[Chaplin]

it DOES? Holy cow Chap? Are you serious?

Again - JPLAY isn't DISSING our offense - he's talking abotu BALANCE - he comes out and says it. It's not rocket science - what are you guys getting all up in a huff about about? When we absolutely needed to get stops we couldn't in this series - that was the biggest problem on the team - no?

If we shot like we did in the regular season, we wouldn't be discussing what went wrong right now. This series would still be going on.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we shot like we did in the regular season, we wouldn't be discussing what went wrong right now. This series would still be going on.

but that's just it - and that;s the point Jplay is talking about - apparently a great offensive team CAN get shut down, but most of the time GREAT defense override great offenses. We were so far out of balance - I don't thinkhe's talking about changing the entire style of play. Jackson's Bulls scored points BUT they played SUPERB defense as well. Shaq and Kobe scored points but when they were most devastating their defense was great in the playoffs as well. The point is that when you're NOT shooting as well, at least you can rely on your defense to stop the other team from scoring - we saw that we couldn't do that at the end of games and it's what killed us ultimately.

 

[Chaplin]

I thought you were talking about our defense, not San Antonio's defense.

Regardless, you win by scoring more points. SA did that, we didn't.

 

[lancelet's cousin]

It is said that defense is the last thing a player learns. In the same vein, I'm sure team defense requires more than one year to evolve.

Even if the starting 5 were capable of playing 4 quarters of better D, it just wasn't feasable with this staff.

We had a make-shift bench remember?

Cohesion, experience, and a real bench. Thats not just wishful thinking, those are key ingredients that are going to occur. And those were things that weren't going to happen this year. It was more than enough that our offense clicked right off the bat. Adequate defense is coming. And adequate defense is all we need.

With the right bench everyone can gamble on D. This year we were always screwed when someone picked up 2 early fouls because they had to stay in and try not to pick up a 3rd.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I thought you were talking about our defense, not San Antonio's defense.

Regardless, you win by scoring more points. SA did that, we didn't.

and again - how do you score more points than the other team? You keep them from scoring. It's the ONLY way you can come out ahead.

 

[JPlay]

Not neccesarily. You don't have to be a good defensive team in order to BLOCK OUT. We were out hustled with regularity for loose balls and rarely used proper technique to block out for a rebound. Guys like Marion and Amare relied heavily on their freak athleticism to get the board. We were lucky that this didn't bite us in the ass more in the regular season.

Yeah I probably went to far on JPlay (sorry dude having a rough day) but it really came across that the only thing that will win us a title is if we become a defensive club. In which case we would have to change our game to a slow down pure halfcourt game that this team is not made for. Yes we can improve our defense but we don't need to ignore other aspects of our game that need improvement and change our game totally in order for us to win a title.

Our D just needs to improve to a mediocre level and to box out for boards. Do that and add a little depth to this team and we're talking dynasty

We were out rebounded and outscored. That is a direct result of bad defense. Rebounding is considered part of defense. We have the offense to score points, that's not going to go away if we play defense. Look at San Antonio they proved it, they were almost scoring at will on us. The playoffs slows the opportunities to run down because teams don't give up easy shots and refs let more calls go. I'm not saying we were blown out, but we did lose all of our home games. Our offense, namely Amare kept us in those games, but at the crucial points when we needed stops our Defense and rebounding was awful.

I would like us to change our defensive scheme and play on the ball physical defense instead of off the ball don't pressure the ball-handler. We should have double teamed Ginobli and made someone else beat us.

 

[Chaplin]

and again - how do you score more points than the other team? You keep them from scoring. It's the ONLY way you can come out ahead.

Is THAT how we won 62 games?

 

[JPlay]

Is THAT how we won 62 games?

No but that's how we lost 4-1 including all of our homes games in the playoffs.

 

[Chaplin]

No but that's how we lost 4-1 including all of our homes games in the playoffs.

We were 9-6 in the playoffs.

 

[JPlay]

We were 9-6 in the playoffs.

Let me re-phrase that, the WCF, when you have the MVP, 1st team, 2nd team and 3rd team players and the three point shoot out champ on your team.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, I agree our defense needs to be addressed. I just think it's not the end-all and be-all of our season. Marion was defended pretty good, but he's had good games while being defended well in the past. And Q's shot still didn't fall, and that wasn't because of defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, I agree our defense needs to be addressed.

couldn't you just have said that instead of being a pompous ass? That's ALL either JPlay or I were saying - good lord Chap.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is THAT how we won 62 games?

seriously - this post is just stupidity Chap - I domn't pretend not to be arrogant sometimes, but the fact that you call people out on it when you yourself are probably the most arrogant person here(who else tries to start their own board and then comes grvoeling back when it's a complete and utter failure?) is really stupid.

 

[Chaplin]

couldn't you just have said that instead of being a pompous ass? That's ALL either JPlay or I were saying - good lord Chap.

Cry me a river cheese. I certainly didn't hear you conceding any of my pertinent points. Get over yourself already. Don't know why you have to get personal all the time.