Blake Griffin

[Phrazbit]

Okay, I'm no expert but this is almost the opposite of what I've seen. I thought Aldridge had a strong face-the-basket game but if either of them were to be called traditional it would have to be Blake. He has multiple moves with his back to the basket and if Aldridge has that in his game he must hide them when he faces the Suns. Blake is like Shawn Kemp, Aldridge is more like Nowitzki. I'd be thrilled with either player but I think Griffin is the better player and he's still improving.

Aldridge is no Nowitzki, he cant shoot the 3, but I agree that he is way more of a face up player than Blake is.

 

[Catlover]

Aldridge is no Nowitzki, he cant shoot the 3, but I agree that he is way more of a face up player than Blake is.

No he's not although his play in a couple of games this postseason has looked eerily reminiscent of Dirk. I was just making a style comparison to highlight the fact (or the opinion) that LaMarcus is not more of a traditional power forward than Blake as slinslin stated.

 

[Cheesewater]

This is why we are one of the most winning franchises in all of sports without a title. For the longest time this organization has cared more about appearance and the entertainment factor while dipping our toes in the other end of the pool with the likes of Barkley.

Screw that. Dive full in.

I doubt the Suns front office has knowingly chosen likeability to the exclusion of championship success. I believe they thought they could have both. Wouldn't winning a championship bring the same level of popularity, if not more?

 

[Mainstreet]

This is why we are one of the most winning franchises in all of sports without a title. For the longest time this organization has cared more about appearance and the entertainment factor while dipping our toes in the other end of the pool with the likes of Barkley.

Screw that. Dive full in.

Lance Blanks dived-in by signing Beasley to a 3 year contract. I'm not against signing players with an attitude but let that attitude show itself foremost in their love for the game. Charles Barkley and Raja Bell loved the game.

 

[Catlover]

I doubt the Suns front office has knowingly chosen likeability to the exclusion of championship success. I believe they thought they could have both. Wouldn't winning a championship bring the same level of popularity, if not more?

There is a school of thought, popular on this board, that seems to suggest that they've never really been in search of a championship. Their goal has been to play an entertaining style of game and give the fans just enough to keep them coming back for more. Or something to that effect. I don't buy it. But regardless, like you, it isn't all about the championship for me.

My life won't change one bit if we win it all but it will change for the worse if we put a completely unappealing product on the court. For example, I can't stand watching the way Chicago plays the game. I know I'm in the minority on this but I'd rather lose our way than win that way.

Thibodeau's way is more likely to result in a championship but I couldn't watch 82 games a season like that. These are some of the most graceful athletes in the world and it can be such a beautiful game when they are allowed to display that athleticism. Or it can be wrestling on hardwood. It may not win but I'll take the graceful Suns over the pushing, holding, hip-checking, strong-arming, grabbing, flopping, whining Bulls.

 

[Covert Rain]

I doubt the Suns front office has knowingly chosen likeability to the exclusion of championship success. I believe they thought they could have both. Wouldn't winning a championship bring the same level of popularity, if not more?

I didn't say that. What I said is that given the choice between two players, one being slightly better with a not so stellar reputation vs a guy with less talent and more of a boy scout, the Suns have levitated towards the boy scout type player.

Look at some of the comments above. It's some fans with that mentality as well.

Lance Blanks dived-in by signing Beasley to a 3 year contract. I'm not against signing players with an attitude but let that attitude show itself foremost in their love for the game. Charles Barkley and Raja Bell loved the game.

I don't disagree with any of that. I am simply saying, don't pass on a guy because you are worried about his "rep". If he is not breaking the law and getting arrested constantly, who gives a damn if he is a complete ass as long as he brings it on the court.

There is a school of thought, popular on this board, that seems to suggest that they've never really been in search of a championship.

I have to stop you there. That might be a school of thought out there but it's hardly prevalent on these boards. I have been here a very long time and I don't recall the majority of Suns fans here ever accusing the Suns of not wanting or searching for a title.

There are the times the Suns have made bad trades to save money or give up draft picks to save money or for example not use cap space to save money. I have seen this franchise since the Walter Davis scandal go our of there way to bring in good citizens when their are other players more talented out there as probably on overprotective reaction to the past which is more of a driver for me in shedding the boy scout image.

Give me 1 title and 10 years of suckage versus another 10 years of "entertaining" basketball and another 30 years without a title. A title is the end game. We have had too much entertainment for one franchise.

 

[Catlover]

I have to stop you there. That might be a school of thought out there but it's hardly prevalent on these boards. I have been here a very long time and I don't recall the majority of Suns fans here ever accusing the Suns of not wanting or searching for a title.

There are the times the Suns have made bad trades to save money or give up draft picks to save money or for example not use cap space to save money. I have seen this franchise since the Walter Davis scandal go our of there way to bring in good citizens when their are other players more talented out there as probably on overprotective reaction to the past which is more of a driver for me in shedding the boy scout image.

Give me 1 title and 10 years of suckage versus another 10 years of "entertaining" basketball and another 30 years without a title. A title is the end game. We have had too much entertainment for one franchise.

I should have said common or perhaps, not unusual, instead of prevalent. They often mean the same thing but prevalent does suggest prevailing (majority) and that wasn't my intention. Anyway, I'm basically talking about the "fifty and fade" group. IMO, that includes you.

While I may not have summed up your position precisely, your position is very much what I'm talking about. I watch every Suns game that I can. Recently that has been every game although I haven't always been that fortunate. Anyway, I just can't understand how someone would accept nine years of suckage for that one championship unless they don't actually watch the games (specifically, the regular season). I'm not saying that this kind of person doesn't exist, just that I can't reconcile that kind of thinking.

I don't think the Suns need boy scouts and nothing else but I don't want to cheer for people that I just can't stand. Winning a championship wouldn't be worth it to me. They don't have to be people I'd like to invite to dinner every night but wife beaters and rapists and chronic liars hold no appeal to me. Somebody that is a bit of a jerk, that I can handle. Give me Blake Griffin. Someone that thinks they are above the law, I'll pass.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'd hate to watch 9 years of poor play - I've enjoyed last 2 years of Suns but 9 years of the play similar to 2 years ago w/o any hope of Playoffs, AS IF! Lol I enjoyed 2 years ago partly because after Dragic played well in Houston, I saw him as Championship quality and then he was back with Suns - I knew they'd be back into Contention soon. Nine years of ugly ball though... Yikes.

 

[Cheesewater]

I didn't say that. What I said is that given the choice between two players, one being slightly better with a not so stellar reputation vs a guy with less talent and more of a boy scout, the Suns have levitated towards the boy scout type player.

You wrote that is what has kept the Suns from winning a title.

 

[Covert Rain]

I should have said common or perhaps, not unusual, instead of prevalent. They often mean the same thing but prevalent does suggest prevailing (majority) and that wasn't my intention. Anyway, I'm basically talking about the "fifty and fade" group. IMO, that includes you.

Well I all I can tell you is that you must not pay attention very closely. I never accused the Suns of NOT trying to win a title in terms of an overall franchise goal. I also have NEVER said the Suns at times didn't do everything they could in a particular year to get one. I do dispute ultimately there has been a consistent effort on the Suns part to do that year in and year out. Especially, in the Sarver years.

There is no disputing during some years the Suns at times have made decisions in given years to NOT go after a title for whatever reason. For example to save cap space or gear up for particular season of free agents. That is just a simple fact. I don't fault them for those instances. However, in some years we have seen this franchise make decisions that baffles the fans and media pundits alike.

For example, not using cap space, going after a more expensive coach, giving up draft picks, making one sided trades or going for a player on the cheap...those are all past actions by this franchise that have ultimately sabotaged any chances at a title. To add insult to injury, in those particular seasons, the marketing machine goes into full gear and starts throwing around terms like "entertaining" or "fun" to try and wash it down the fans throats.

I have ZERO doubt the franchise wants a title. I think the Suns have made some legitimate attempts to do everything they can during certain runs. It's how far they are willing to go sometimes is what I question and rightfully so if history is any indication. Plus now the Suns have to deal with a sullied reputation since Sarver took over which doesn't make the job any easier. Simply put, IMO, it's time for this franchise to stop worrying about the boy scout image and as long as someone isn't a criminal or thug...bring the guy in.

While I may not have summed up your position precisely, your position is very much what I'm talking about. I watch every Suns game that I can. Recently that has been every game although I haven't always been that fortunate. Anyway, I just can't understand how someone would accept nine years of suckage for that one championship unless they don't actually watch the games (specifically, the regular season). I'm not saying that this kind of person doesn't exist, just that I can't reconcile that kind of thinking.

That's very easy to explain. The franchise has been around for what 46 years? We are one of of the most winning franchises in all of sports without a title. If you ask most die hard fans they would die for a title.

Let's say over that period of time, we had 4 titles (one about every 10 years) and in between we put up with some horrid teams. I know very few fans that wouldn't take that over the past 46 with ZERO titles with lots of "entertaining" or "fun" teams instead.

I watch most games every single season. I have gotten my fill of entertaining teams and fun teams. 46 years and counting is enough and becomes more embarrassing year by year. The end game for any fan should be a title IMO.

I don't think the Suns need boy scouts and nothing else but I don't want to cheer for people that I just can't stand. Winning a championship wouldn't be worth it to me. They don't have to be people I'd like to invite to dinner every night but wife beaters and rapists and chronic liars hold no appeal to me. Somebody that is a bit of a jerk, that I can handle. Give me Blake Griffin. Someone that thinks they are above the law, I'll pass.

If you read my original post on the topic, I specifically called out that I was not talking about criminals so I am not sure why you even brought that up. I was specifically talking about guys that are perceived as having egos or being jerks and some of them perceived as dirty. Some of the greatest players of all time have that reputation and they have titles to go along with it. I am simply saying, if that is what it takes to get us a title so be it.

You wrote that is what has kept the Suns from winning a title.

You are oversimplifying what I said. There are many reasons but I can say that the Suns have made player choices based on players reputations for the sake of keeping a good image. This has been a factor since the drug scandal years.

 

[BC867]

With the exception of Connie Hawkins and Charles Barkley, the Suns for four and one-half decades have been a Guard/Wing oriented team.

I don't include Amar'e because he spent too much time as a Forward-playing Center. I don't think we've have ever had an enforcer at the Center position.

This debate about an entertaining team vs. a playoff-ready team remains exactly where the Suns roster is now. And where it has always been at best -- "50-and-fade".

Why can't we have an entertaining team with both a starting and backup Center who are role players? They don't have to be all-stars, just rebounders to trigger the fast break, score some opportunity points and constitute a 48 minute presence on defense, playing next to a legitimate Power Forward.

Perhaps Len could be one of them in the future, but we need two role players next season. For the foreseeable future, it is not he and it is not Plumlee. As it stands now, they are just two excuses for a soft Frye and undersized Markieff to finish our games at C and PF. And that is "50-and-fade."

Recap? Why can't we play 48 minutes with a role-playing Center, to help and take the load off our best players?

 

[Errntknght]

I'm inclinded to think Plumlee will come along strong next year - it looked like he hit the rookie wall about February but he came back fairly well at the end of the year. Now he knows he has to improve his stamina and he has the summer to work on it. Len is much iffier, starting with his ankles but if they are no longer an issue he'll at least get the benefit of summer league and training camp. He's got the size and enough athleticism to be a good rim protector. Adding some muscle would help, too, but mainly he needs to learn how to play defense without fouling every other play. Stamina shouldn't be much of an issue at fifteen minutes per game. He's already fairly good at using his height to rebound and as he learns the NBA inside game he should improve incrementally. The key thing with Len, IMO, if he's healthy enough to play is to keep him focused on defense and rebounding. The offense will come in due time.
If we don't draft a Dieng or Steven Adams type this year we'll still need a third C - a journeyman like Randolf should suffice, if Plumlee and Len progress at a fairly normal rate. However, I don't see great team success if they're having to compensate for very weak to weak rebounding at PF. We stayed within striking distance of mediocre due to good rebounding from the other three positions this past year but that isn't a good thing to rely on.

 

[BC867]

I'm inclinded to think Plumlee will come along strong next year - it looked like he hit the rookie wall about February but he came back fairly well at the end of the year. Now he knows he has to improve his stamina and he has the summer to work on it. Len is much iffier, starting with his ankles but if they are no longer an issue he'll at least get the benefit of summer league and training camp. He's got the size and enough athleticism to be a good rim protector. Adding some muscle would help, too, but mainly he needs to learn how to play defense without fouling every other play. Stamina shouldn't be much of an issue at fifteen minutes per game. He's already fairly good at using his height to rebound and as he learns the NBA inside game he should improve incrementally. The key thing with Len, IMO, if he's healthy enough to play is to keep him focused on defense and rebounding. The offense will come in due time.
If we don't draft a Dieng or Steven Adams type this year we'll still need a third C - a journeyman like Randolf should suffice, if Plumlee and Len progress at a fairly normal rate. However, I don't see great team success if they're having to compensate for very weak to weak rebounding at PF. We stayed within striking distance of mediocre due to good rebounding from the other three positions this past year but that isn't a good thing to rely on.

That is all true. But better and more consistent performances from Plumlee and Len at Center might get us from (predicted) worst to a playoff spot next season, but not a serious contender.

Despite our surprisingly good season, one of our Center tandem was never good enough to finish games more than a handful of times.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Big time measuring stick game for Griffin today. Game 7 at home. Superstar players come up with superstar performances in these games. Let's see how far he's come.

 

[Errntknght]

That is all true. But better and more consistent performances from Plumlee and Len at Center might get us from (predicted) worst to a playoff spot next season, but not a serious contender.

Despite our surprisingly good season, one of our Center tandem was never good enough to finish games more than a handful of times.

I agree that being a serious contender is probably some seasons away without the addition of established solid players or a 'star'. Heck, we could easily move backward if some players decide not to resign or opt out. Even if every significant player returns there may not be the same harmony as last season.

Getting a star that fits your team is always improbable so I'm not counting on that - I'm happy to build mainly through the draft and improvement in players we already have. I don't see a problem with three draft picks this year and then two or three next year if it comes to that. We can easily absorb three this year though McD might have to be resourceful next year if all three stick - those are the kind of problems you don't really mind having.

 

[BC867]

Emeka Okafor was brought here to recuperate, then be our starting (and closing) Center for 2014-15.

When we were predicted to be the worst team in the league, I can understand his decision to distance himself from the Suns.

I wonder if our success could influence him to change his mind and if it would be possible to bring him on board.

 

[Phrazbit]

Emeka Okafor was brought here to recuperate, then be our starting (and closing) Center for 2014-15.

When we were predicted to be the worst team in the league, I can understand his decision to distance himself from the Suns.

I wonder if our success could influence him to change his mind and if it would be possible to bring him on board.

I dont think we ever had an intention of using him as an expiring contract.

And I certainly dont think with him being unwilling to rehab with our people that the Suns would have an interest in signing him this summer.

 

[BC867]

And I certainly dont think with him being unwilling to rehab with our people that the Suns would have an interest in signing him this summer.

If he could help us at Center, would the Suns spite themselves? Or do you think there's something more to it than that?

 

[Errntknght]

Who knows what the story is with Okafor... most players would jump at the chance to rehab with the Suns trainers. Mabye he's pissed at Washington and Phoenix both for the Gortat deal... maybe he's a dyed in the wool East Coaster or Eastern Conferencer. Maybe his agent figures he was hornswaggled by McD on some other deal entirely. On the surface it looks like he's snubbed us at every opportunity so I don't figure we'll give him more chances to do it.

 

[SirStefan32]

If he could help us at Center, would the Suns spite themselves? Or do you think there's something more to it than that?

Suns drafted a C with a fifth pick, and they traded for another one. There is no room for Okafor on the Suns roster even if he were healthy and wanted to play in Phoenix for a minimum contract.

Suns don't need a Center- they have two youngsters that need playing time. What they need is a power forward.

 

[elindholm]

Who knows what the story is with Okafor... most players would jump at the chance to rehab with the Suns trainers. Mabye he's pissed at Washington and Phoenix both for the Gortat deal... maybe he's a dyed in the wool East Coaster or Eastern Conferencer. Maybe his agent figures he was hornswaggled by McD on some other deal entirely. On the surface it looks like he's snubbed us at every opportunity so I don't figure we'll give him more chances to do it.

The biggest mystery to me is how he could simply decide not to report, yet still receive his salary. It looks like he's ripped the Suns off of an eight-figure payout with no repercussions at all.

 

[Errntknght]

Suns drafted a C with a fifth pick, and they traded for another one. There is no room for Okafor on the Suns roster even if he were healthy and wanted to play in Phoenix for a minimum contract.

Suns don't need a Center- they have two youngsters that need playing time. What they need is a power forward.

I wouldn't go that far Sir, not if Okafor were fully recovered. They should jump at the opportunity and I believe they would. You're right, of course, that we need a PF but the ones we have would look better alongside a true anchor in the middle like Emeka. And we'd have three shots at drafting one, plus an outside chance of getting one in a trade or in free agency.

It might be a small setback for Plumlee but Len would have a chance to learn from one of the best defensive centers at the right stage of his career.

We'd be almost a cinch to make the playoffs and if other things went favorably we might actually be in contention. I think it would be great for our fans to see the Suns - yes the Phoenix Suns - rocking on defense for once.

 

[Phrazbit]

The biggest mystery to me is how he could simply decide not to report, yet still receive his salary. It looks like he's ripped the Suns off of an eight-figure payout with no repercussions at all.

I think the Suns preferred it that way. Insurance covered a decent chunk of his salary that I'm pretty sure is forfeit if he had stepped on the court at any point.

 

[elindholm]

Insurance covered a decent chunk of his salary that I'm pretty sure is forfeit if he had stepped on the court at any point.

Ah, I didn't think of that.

 

[overseascardfan]

Aside from his age, Okafor would provide the rebounding and defense PHX needs at the PF position. Again his age and injury history do not make him a fit for PHX going forward.