Bledsoe to Bucks

[BC867]

Eric had this same impact when he started with the Suns. In his defense, it seems to take other players some time to figure out how to play with him.

Or not. Being he is not a facilitating Point Guard. I am so glad he is now the Bucks' problem.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Or not. Being he is not a facilitating Point Guard. I am so glad he is now the Bucks' problem.

He is playing quite well for the Bucks right now.

 

[3rdside]

He is playing quite well for the Bucks right now.

So is, IT, dragic, markieff Morris, Marcus Morris...so NOTHING to see here in other words.

And related / not related; don’t know if anyone’s following bogdan bogdanovic but he’s looking like the best player in that trade.




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[Hoop Head]

So is, IT, dragic, markieff Morris, Marcus Morris...so NOTHING to see here in other words.

And related / not related; don’t know if anyone’s following bogdan bogdanovic but he’s looking like the best player in that trade.


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I'd rather have Skal Labissiere right now, who was part of the Chriss trade also. He's averaging 8 ppg and 4.2 rpg in 17 mpg. Chriss is averaging 6.3 ppg and 4.8 rpg in 20 mpg. Skal has better size and better range without the attitude issues.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd rather have Skal Labissiere right now, who was part of the Chriss trade also. He's averaging 8 ppg and 4.2 rpg in 17 mpg. Chriss is averaging 6.3 ppg and 4.8 rpg in 20 mpg. Skal has better size and better range without the attitude issues.

Unless Chriss changes, that trade is looking like a big loser. Last year, toward the end of the year, it was looking like a good trade. Things seem to change fast.

 

[devilalum]

What’s the common denominator in all the bad Suns trades?


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[BC867]

What’s the common denominator in all the bad Suns trades?


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During the Sarver era, the Managing General Partner with his 30% of the Suns stock (who acted like an NBA expert * ) and his General Manager (or is he just his stooge?).

* expert -- ex=someone who used to be; spurt=a big drip.

Except they still are.

 

[Hoop Head]

I thought I'd look up to see how Bledsoe is doing in Milwaukee compared to Phoenix and he hasn't gotten better or stepped up away from the Suns. I know he's playing 2nd fiddle to the Greek Freak but his assists are down in addition to his scoring. The Bucks are 14-9 with him in their lineup and right now they're sitting at 5th in the East with a 18-15 record.

During the last season with the Suns he played in 66 games for 33 mpg while scoring 21.4 ppg. He shot 43% on 15.7 attempts, while shooting 34% from 3 on 4.7 attempts a game. He shot 85% from the FT line on 6.9 attempts a game. He also averaged 4.8 rpg, 6.3 apg, and 1.4 steals to go with 3.4 turnovers. He had a good year but he's pushing for a max contract extension so he should be building on those numbers, especially since he's only 27.

Right now he's played in all 23 games he's been eligible for, averaging 32 mpg and scoring 18.7 ppg. He's shooting 46% on 14.2 attempts, while shooting 31% from 3 on 5 attempts a game. He’s shooting 75% from the FT line on 5.4 FT attempts a game. He’s also averaging 4 rpg, 4.6 apg, and 2 steals to go with 3 turnovers.

So he's getting just 1.5 less FG attempts a game, another 1.5 less FT attempts in only 1 less minute of playing time. His FG shooting has gone up but his 3pt shooting has gone down and his FT shooting has dropped 10%. His rebounding and assists are lower than they were in any of the 4 seasons he played here in Phoenix, which is a bit surprising. I'm not sure if his defense has stepped up or not but he is getting more steals but he averaged 2 steals a game in his 3rd year here in Phoenix. The Bucks are a better defensive team so his steals going up isn't that surprising. I thought his turnovers might go down since he's averaging more than 1.5 less assists a game, he has better teammates, and a real offense but that doesn't appear to be the case, since they've only gone down .4 a game.

Oddly enough it looks like they've been running sort of a 2 PG set as of late in Milwaukee as well. Over the last 17 games they've started 2 PG's in 9 of those games. Gary Payton II has started in 6 of them and Dellavedova started in 3. Brogdon appears to have moved to the bench since Bledsoe's arrival but with them shuffling the other 2 PG's into the starting 5 it wouldn't surprise me to see Brogdon end up there either, especially with his size, being 6'5. Milwaukee was using Giannis as a point forward last year also and I imagine that hasn't changed much this year with the numbers he's putting up, both Middleton and Giannis are averaging 4.5 assists per game. I think it's safe to say that Bledsoe isn't their primary ball handler when he's on the court though, while he may be for stretches. This is the 3rd team that's used Bledsoe in a 2 PG set, first in LA under Del Negro alongside Chris Paul. He was Paul's backup primarily but he played alongside him some a bit also. Of course Hornacek had him and Dragic sharing PG duties his 1st year and then IT, Dragic, and Bledsoe his 2nd year. Then they had him and Knight splitting duties at PG until Booker stepped up his game and they went with a more traditional lineup. Now Kidd is using him with Dellavedova, Payton, and Brogdon. Bledsoe's a decent basketball player but he's definitely not a full time point guard, nor is he worth the max from any team that is hoping he'll play PG for them 30+ minutes a night and win.

 

[Phrazbit]

Milwaukee has been significantly better since the trade and their on court of court splits for Bledsoe are just silly. Giannis is a monster and obvious should get the lions share of the possessions, so Bledsoe's assist stats dipping is not surprising, but he has been really efficient and, as mentioned, the Bucks as a team are worlds better with him vs without him.

Per 100 possessions the Bucks are outscoring their foes 115.6 to 108.7 when he is on the court, when he rests the Bucks are getting beat 108.1 to 114.6. The discrepancy there is crazy. They're WAY better on both ends when he is in the game. His adjust PER is 22.1, while holding opposing PGs to a PER of 12.8.

It paints the picture of a really solid offensive player and a flat out elite defender. Which is the guy we saw here when the team around him wasn't trash. This isn't me trying to fully excuse his play or his behavior here, his method of forcing his way out was pure trash and as a pro making a ton of money he should be putting out effort regardless of the circumstance. But the guy is really freaking good and it really sucks that it took him going to another team for that to become plainly evident.

Especially considering he is an ideal fit with Booker. Someone who won't demand the ball and can help cover for Booker's defensive shortcomings.

It really sucks that he did the Suns dirty... but at the same time it should serve as a warning to those that are fine with sucking perpetually until we hit gold in the lotto, that good players already on the roster can only handle being on a terrible team for so long.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are unanswered questions about the reason for his departure. Was it:

1. The team was bad and he wanted to go somewhere to compete in the playoffs.
2. He was angry about sitting out last season so the Suns could try to draft a point guard.
3. He wanted a max extension and the Suns would not do it now.
4. He was angry about Watson getting fired.
5. He did not like the coaching situation (Watson) and wanted out.

At least the first three have all been floated as reasons when someone’s argument demands it. Whatever the reason, he dogged it on the court.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are unanswered questions about the reason for his departure. Was it:

1. The team was bad and he wanted to go somewhere to compete in the playoffs.
2. He was angry about sitting out last season so the Suns could try to draft a point guard.
3. He wanted a max extension and the Suns would not do it now.
4. He was angry about Watson getting fired.
5. He did not like the coaching situation (Watson) and wanted out.

At least the first three have all been floated as reasons when someone’s argument demands it. Whatever the reason, he dogged it on the court.

I think the Suns holding Bledsoe out to tank last season had a role in his wanting to leave. Also he wanted to play for a competitive team and it wasn't going to happen right away in Phoenix... or so he may have thought. However, I think Bledsoe stays if he has assurance he gets a near max extension. This was not going to happen and rightfully so.

I was glad the Suns traded Bledsoe because he was not worthy of a max extension and the negotiations would have been difficult. Also the risk of further injury to his repaired knee was always out there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bledsoe’s departure was necessary. He wasn’t leading the team anywhere and he wasn’t worth the max he sought.

The manner of his departure was lame on both sides.

What we got for him was okay. Not great not terrible.

The reasons are unknown. I’m sure losing played a role but to state it was the only, or even primary, reason is nothing more than conjecture. I’m sure the max contract was the real driver given paul’s presence, but even that conjecture on my part.

But the use of exaggeration and putting words in other peoole’s mouths is lame. No one has ever used the word “perpetual” word except . . . you. It’s a year-to-year determination. Even poker backed off his hyperbole about wanting to do it past this year. And allow me to remind everyone, we aren’t even tanking right now. So for some of you to keep bringing it up (and ironically it’s the anti-tankers thy bring it up most often now) is just kinda stupid and just baiting.

But when you’ve got a weak argument you have to lower yourself to disingenuous techniques in attempts to bolster your side. I get it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Bledsoe’s departure was necessary. He wasn’t leading the team anywhere and he wasn’t worth the max he sought.

The manner of his departure was lame on both sides.

What we got for him was okay. Not great not terrible.

The reasons are unknown. I’m sure losing played a role but to state it was the only, or even primary, reason is nothing more than conjecture. I’m sure the max contract was the real driver given paul’s presence, but even that conjecture on my part.

But the use of exaggeration and putting words in other peoole’s mouths is lame. No one has ever used the word “perpetual” word except . . . you. It’s a year-to-year determination. Even poker backed off his hyperbole about wanting to do it past this year. And allow me to remind everyone, we aren’t even tanking right now. So for some of you to keep bringing it up (and ironically it’s the anti-tankers thy bring it up most often now) is just kinda stupid and just baiting.

But when you’ve got a weak argument you have to lower yourself to disingenuous techniques in attempts to bolster your side. I get it.

Suns have been perpetual losers for the last few years. Intentional or not is irrelevant. Players get sick of it. "Year to year determination" is just a fancy way of encouraging losing year after year.

I am glad Bledsoe is gone. I always thought he was severely overrated by this board, especially regarding his "elite defense". Don't care what caused him to be gone, what the top 5 factors were, or anything else. Good riddance.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. Reviewing the Bledsoe trade now. Here is the net result.

1. A potential 4-16 pick next year if it conveys.
2. Moving up at least 5 spots in a loaded draft. There can be no doubt that if Bled was here we would be picking in the 10 range.
3. $15 million in cap space this summer with Monroe's expiring. This, more than anything moved up the timeline.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So. Reviewing the Bledsoe trade now. Here is the net result.

1. A potential 4-16 pick next year if it conveys.
2. Moving up at least 5 spots in a loaded draft. There can be no doubt that if Bled was here we would be picking in the 10 range.

they lost their first game of the year by 40... at home... with Bledsoe.

this team was going to be awful with or without him. thinking they'd be in the ten range seriously underestimates how awful this roster was put together going into the year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

they lost their first game of the year by 40... at home... with Bledsoe.

this team was going to be awful with or without him. thinking they'd be in the ten range seriously underestimates how awful this roster was put together going into the year.

OK. Its speculating either way, but I think we would be about 5 slots better with him. Can't prove it, obviously.

 

[Hoop Head]

There's 8 wins separating the Suns from the Knicks, who finished #9. I think Bledsoe would have helped win a couple of games but even winning 3 more games could have dropped the Suns to #5 or #6. The biggest hole all year was at PG, adding a PG who puts up near All-Star numbers at PG would have helped the Suns win 4-5 games. They might not have went all in on the tank if they had Bledsoe also. That's something that can't be known though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

they lost their first game of the year by 40... at home... with Bledsoe.

this team was going to be awful with or without him. thinking they'd be in the ten range seriously underestimates how awful this roster was put together going into the year.

Bledsoe was not playing to win, that was obvious IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bledsoe was not playing to win, that was obvious IMO.

And he would have been if he didn’t get traded?

 

[Mainstreet]

Bledsoe was not playing to win, that was obvious IMO.

I think this is a fair statement. That was my impression as well. He made it clear he didn't want to be here.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And he would have been if he didn’t get traded?

I think the point is that if he didn't get traded it would have been because he was actually invested in playing hard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And he would have been if he didn’t get traded?

No, not saying anything like that. When his agent requested a new contract a full year earlier than expected and we passed, Eric became a problem. The agent apparently had Bledsoe freeze us out of all communication and mail it in when the season started.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, not saying anything like that. When his agent requested a new contract a full year earlier than expected and we passed, Eric became a problem. The agent apparently had Bledsoe freeze us out of all communication and mail it in when the season started.

Yes. He wanted a renegotiated contract extension as I recall.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Btw. I am not giving McD “credit” for that benefit of the trade since he was not planning it that way. It’s just how things fell out.