Bledsoe: To Keep or Shop

hcsilla

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I think this would be a non-issue if Eric Bledsoe was the #3 option unfortunately we don't have 2 players better than him.

And majority of NBA teams don't either, so saying the problem with Bledsoe is not having two better players quite weird and misleading since acquiring two better players than him seems very very difficult especially with the assets that the Suns have.
 

thephoenixson28

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I would trade for Cousins and reunite them. I would trade both Morris twins, our 1st and some other stuff for him.
 

JS22

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Yes, please. His turnovers drive me crazy. His defense is overrated. He takes plays off. He's got the charisma/leadership of a rock. He's not a good pg. He can't shoot. His game is solely built on athleticism. Athleticism does not get better after age 25.

That's exactly how I look at it.

I'd rather just roll the dice with Knight and ship Bledsoe + others for a decent big to pair with Len. You're all in with Knight at this point. May as well see what Bledsoe can bring back.
 

chickenhead

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I say keep: it's too soon to buy high and sell low. The organization has chosen Bledsoe several times now; I would like to see at least one season where they actually build around him. Dragic was traded less than 2 months ago.

But I'm also saying this with the assumption that "shopping" him would yield less than he may ultimately be worth. If somehow there is an amazing PF to be had...sure, something to consider.
 
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slinslin

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Building teams around good/great/elite PG's doesn't work.
:deadhorse2:

BS almost all the good teams in the NBA are kind of build around good/great/elite PGs
Houston you might call an exception but Harden is basically their PG.

Golden State - Curry
Atlanta - Teague (their best player)
Clippers - Paul
OKC - Westbrook
Memphis - Conley
Portland - Lillard
Cleveland - Irving
Chicago - Rose
Washington - Wall (their best player)
Toronto - Lowry (their best player)
San Antonio - Parker (was their best player in the last championship runs)
 

WildBB

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This team at guard needs a play maker first, they should have a competent jump shot at well. They seem to be harder to find than you would think.

But therein lays a problem as well. The Suns as a team are streaky shooters all around.
 

Ronin

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I'm thinking the Suns should just go ahead and trade Bledsoe. Hopefully the Suns can get something good in return for him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

mojorizen7

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BS almost all the good teams in the NBA are kind of build around good/great/elite PGs
Houston you might call an exception but Harden is basically their PG.

Golden State - Curry
Atlanta - Teague (their best player)
Clippers - Paul
OKC - Westbrook
Memphis - Conley
Portland - Lillard
Cleveland - Irving
Chicago - Rose
Washington - Wall (their best player)
Toronto - Lowry (their best player)
San Antonio - Parker (was their best player in the last championship runs)
None of those teams have won anything yet, except for S.A. that was built around Tim Duncan, and OKC which was built around Kevin Durant.
C.Paul? Hows that worked out in his career? Rose and Chicago? Nada.
The fact that you even mention Cleveland without mentioning LeBron is amusing.

Here i'll help you out.
S.A. = Duncan
Miami = LeBron/Wade(there's one with a superstar next to him)
OKC = Durant
Cleveland = LeBron
Dallas = Nowitski
Lakers = Kobe/Shaq
Boston = Garnett/Pierce
Orlando = Howard
Detroit = Wallace/Billups(there's one with a bigman next to him)

There are the Finals/relevant over teams the last 10 years. I could go back even further, but then the evidence only gets stronger that elite PG's aren't the key to success.
 
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slinslin

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Half of the teams you mentioned had or will have had hall of fame PGs in their final runs. And the Lakers were built around a ball-dominant shooting guard which is esentially no different than building around a PG, same for Wade in the finals.
 

mojorizen7

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Half of the teams you mentioned had or will have had hall of fame PGs in their final runs. And the Lakers were built around a ball-dominant shooting guard which is esentially no different than building around a PG, same for Wade in the finals.
I spelled it out for you. If you want to see it differently that's fine. The evidence is there in black and white.
Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaq, Nowitski, Kobe, Garnett, Howard, LeBron, Wade, Durant...none of those teams matter without those guys and none of them were elite PG's(with the rare exception of Magic Johnson who was an obvious exception due to his size/abilities).

Go back and look at the starting PG's for all of these title teams.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

Now granted, things could change with the evolution of the game. I'll wait for it...
 
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slinslin

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I spelled it out for you. If you want to see it differently that's fine. The evidence is there in black and white.
Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaq, Nowitski, Kobe, Garnett, Howard, LeBron, Wade, Durant...none of those teams matter without those guys and none of them were elite PG's(with the rare exception of Magic Johnson who was an obvious exception due to his size/abilities).

Go back and look at the starting PG's for all of these title teams.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/championships/year_by_year.htm

Now granted, things could change with the evolution of the game. I'll wait for it...

Kobe handled the ball so much it is hilarious to think that Derek Fisher was the PG or playmaker for those teams. Same for the Wade/Shaq Heat.

Same could be said about Jordan and Kerr or BJ Armstrong.

You say OKC does not matter without Durant, well they don't matter without Irving either.
And how about Isaiah Thomas or Bob Cousy why stop there?

Name a good team today without a PG being a key contributor. Oh you can't.
 

Zobaczcie suki

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It would be idiotic to trade Bledsoe at this point. Not only would we not get decent value in return, but you can't project his future based upon how the team fell apart after the big trade. Initially, we were left way undersized by the trade. Things started to a gel a bit with Knight handling some of the playmaking duties, then Knight goes down. Then Len goes down.

So the injuries leveled our trade depleted team even more. Looking at the starting roster last night, I think we started Morris, Morris, Tucker, Bledsoe and Wright. Enough said there.

It is extremely challenging for any PG to make good things happen without solid pieces around you, and even more challenging when the pieces you have get changed up mid season by trades, and again by injuries. New people are plugged in, chemistry suffers, you think they are going to zig, when they are really going to zag.

Bledsoe is an extremely talented player with a lot of upside. He is young and still has a lot of maturing to do in his decision making with the ball. With Knight sharing the playmaking duties next year, he should be able to flourish again. At this stage of his development, I don't think Bledsoe can carry the full load of running the offense himself, especially when he is typically guarding the other team's best guard on the other end, and racking up valuable steals and blocks along the way.

We have Bledsoe on a decent contract, that is not a max contract by the way, and there is no reason to give that up.

I think that a lot of people are making the mistake of judging Bledsoe based upon the last several weeks since the trade. We need to take a step back and keep things in perspective.
 

Mainstreet

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It would be idiotic to trade Bledsoe at this point. Not only would we not get decent value in return, but you can't project his future based upon how the team fell apart after the big trade. Initially, we were left way undersized by the trade. Things started to a gel a bit with Knight handling some of the playmaking duties, then Knight goes down. Then Len goes down.

So the injuries leveled our trade depleted team even more. Looking at the starting roster last night, I think we started Morris, Morris, Tucker, Bledsoe and Wright. Enough said there.

It is extremely challenging for any PG to make good things happen without solid pieces around you, and even more challenging when the pieces you have get changed up mid season by trades, and again by injuries. New people are plugged in, chemistry suffers, you think they are going to zig, when they are really going to zag.

Bledsoe is an extremely talented player with a lot of upside. He is young and still has a lot of maturing to do in his decision making with the ball. With Knight sharing the playmaking duties next year, he should be able to flourish again. At this stage of his development, I don't think Bledsoe can carry the full load of running the offense himself, especially when he is typically guarding the other team's best guard on the other end, and racking up valuable steals and blocks along the way.

We have Bledsoe on a decent contract, that is not a max contract by the way, and there is no reason to give that up.

I think that a lot of people are making the mistake of judging Bledsoe based upon the last several weeks since the trade. We need to take a step back and keep things in perspective.

I'm not pushing to trade Bledsoe but if either Bledsoe or Knight brought something good in a trade I would definitely look at it. I'm not sold on Hornacek's two PG (sort of) offense.
 

mojorizen7

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Kobe handled the ball so much it is hilarious to think that Derek Fisher was the PG or playmaker for those teams. Same for the Wade/Shaq Heat.

Same could be said about Jordan and Kerr or BJ Armstrong.

You say OKC does not matter without Durant, well they don't matter without Irving either.
And how about Isaiah Thomas or Bob Cousy why stop there?

Name a good team today without a PG being a key contributor. Oh you can't.

I'm not saying Jordan/Kobe/Wade weren't the primary playmakers on those teams. Clearly they were, but clearly they aren't great PG's like Nash, Paul, Kidd, Westbrook, Parker, Stockton, KJ, Billups, I.Thomas, etc etc etc...

Durant: Don't lose sight of this conversation. We're talking about teams BUILT around elite PG's vs being built around elite "insert any other position here."

Name a good team today without a PG being a key contributor? A key contributor. Again, don't move the goalposts on this conversation. Every team needs a PG who is a key contributor(at least). We're talking about teams that have built a championship team by building around an elite cornerstone PG and putting lesser talent around that guy. It hasn't worked anywhere.
 
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slinslin

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Bledsoe has made a lot less turnover lately.

I still think Bledsoe can be great but great PGs need to be surrounded by capable shooters and players that get open.

If we keep Bledsoe I expect a big improvement next season.

I think Bledsoe is the perfect #3 guy on a great team. Maybe if we could move Len, Morris twins, Tucker for Cousins and Thompson.

Cousins/???
???/Thompson
Warren/???
Knight/Goodwin
Bledsoe/???

If Knight can improve has a scorer and shooter that is a pretty good core.
 

JCSunsfan

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I am hearing this more and more. However, I was curious about PG stats. Currently there are only 13 guys in the NBA that average more assists per game than Bledsoe. I realize that is only one part of running an offense as a PG.

Again...have not seen enough of Knight. Just food for thought but who is out there AND AVAILABLE that is better than Bledsoe in terms of PGs? If there are only 13 guys that involve their teammates more (assists).....that doesn't sound good to simply ship him off. Unless we are trading for one of those other guys or hoping to land a "true" PG in the draft.....the prospects to do better than Bledsoe don't look so hot.

Thoughts?

Sorry, I meant to type "shopped" not "shipped". Iphone spell-correcter again.

Bledsoe should be shopped just like anyone else on this team. There is no player on this team that should not considered tradeable if the deal can nab a star/superstar talent. That includes Len and Warren.

I am not, however, advocating trading Bledsoe just to get rid of him. If the right deal comes along, fine, if not, keep him. This team is not to a level where shipping off talent, just to get rid of it, is a good idea.

That type of move is reserved for teams that are on the verge of being great and need to tweak the chemistry, or for dealing with really disruptive players like Beasley.

Neither situation applies here.
 
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sunsfan88

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They've legalized marijuana in Hannover?

Yea im not sure what that type of package could net but it's certainly not a star player.

Despite our FO thinking otherwise, people need to realize our trade "assets" are extremely overrated. I highly doubt any team cares much for the Morris twins and it's possible they end up being bad contracts in the future (even with cap going up, yes) if they keep up with their on court and off court drama/antics. Len at this point hasn't showed ability to stay healthy, if he played for any other team we would be calling him Mr. Glass. And PJ Tucker, an energy guy? Kiddin me? Bledsoe hasn't lived up to his contract and still hasn't learned how to run an offense.
 

TJ

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This is pretty ridiculous. You realize that you just basically said that nobody will really want him because he isn't that good and yet you want the Suns to build around him.

So you want the Suns to build around a player that other teams don't really care for because he isn't that good?

Umm...I never said that, but well done putting words in my mouth.

He's a good enough player that he would be able to trade, but not with the accompanying contract. He's still a very talented player, nonetheless.

Bledsoe may not be the vocal leader that everyone wants him to be, but he's still a very good player.
 
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TJ

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How do you build around a Point Guard who doesn't fit a role?

He is not a Point Guard making the rest of the team better.

He is not a Shooting Guard.

His defense comes and goes.

He is not a vocal leader nor is he a leader by example.

He is an instant offense/hot & cold defense free spirit who would be the final piece surrounded by a couple of superstars on a strong playoff team.

As we have seen this season, he is not the one to build around. Bledsoe is what he is! I am surprised that LeBron hasn't influenced Cleveland to trade for his little buddy.

You build around him because he's arguably the best player on the team and not a malcontent like Markieff. He's not a vocal leader, but as you said, would be a piece for a solid to great team. It's up to the FO to bring in other pieces.

Also, people are assuming Bledsoe won't improve or develop. He's 25 and doesn't have the court experience many 25-year-olds have.

If you can bring in quality front court players and picks for him, then you do it, but common sense says that's not going to happen.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm not sold on Hornacek needing a two PG offense. If that is a lock, then the Suns have the wrong coach. It would be great if one could find a taller PG that can shoot and defend but those are hard to find. I wish Hornacek could adapt his offense to players available. IMO, the Suns reached for Knight and that experiment is still in development. If Knight does not work out, the Suns are stuck and maybe even need to trade for another starting caliber PG. I do not want the Suns to go farther down this road especially with Archie Goodwin and Bogdan Bogdanovic on the horizon.
 

Covert Rain

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I'm not sold on Hornacek needing a two PG offense. If that is a lock, then the Suns have the wrong coach. It would be great if one could find a taller PG that can shoot and defend but those are hard to find. I wish Hornacek could adapt his offense to players available. IMO, the Suns reached for Knight and that experiment is still in development. If Knight does not work out, the Suns are stuck and maybe even need to trade for another starting caliber PG. I do not want the Suns to go farther down this road especially with Archie Goodwin and Bogdan Bogdanovic on the horizon.

Agreed. If Hornacek really "needs" a two PG system to be successful as a coach...it's already time to move on. The two PG system isn't going to take us anywhere. To continue down this path is pure insanity.
 

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