Bledsoe: To Keep or Shop

Cheesebeef

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I suspect they had in the back of their minds that, if they lost, Russell Westbrook would be out of the playoffs. Funny how the Spurs always seem to get those little details to align their way.

I don't know... why would they they care? You think they feared westbrook in any way shape or form? even if they did, as the 8 seed, he would have been long gone by the time he could have possibly faced them in the WCF.

I feel like with an old team, who's not afraid of anyone at this point, rest for the old legs and home-cooking would trump what they think of Westbrook.

that said, there's no doubt in my mind that they beat the Clippers. But it should be a hell of a fun first round series. Best of the round, IMO.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm thinking the Pelicans are a better team than being given credit. If I'm the Warriors, I would not be looking forward to playing them.
 

BC867

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And what I wrote was in response to BC's archaic basketball philosophy, claiming that Bledsoe and guys of his ilk make the entire rest of the team worse.
Can you deny that with Bledsoe as our primary distributor this season, no matter which supporting cast, the Suns were not a cohesive team? Look at the results. And the bickering.

And now they're going to clean house again. A fire sale twice a year.

Schoolyard basketball without regard for players' roles does not build a winning team in the NBA. I don't see anything archaic about that philosophy.
 

Cheesebeef

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Can you deny that with Bledsoe as our primary distributor this season, no matter which supporting cast, the Suns were not a cohesive team? Look at the results. And the bickering.

we were absolutely overloaded at the PG spot this year and it hurt us, but can you deny that with Bledsoe as our primary ball-handler LAST season, that when he and Dragic were in there together, that the offense was very good and the team was much better?
 

Phrazbit

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Can you deny that with Bledsoe as our primary distributor this season, no matter which supporting cast, the Suns were not a cohesive team? Look at the results. And the bickering.

And now they're going to clean house again. A fire sale twice a year.

Schoolyard basketball without regard for players' roles does not build a winning team in the NBA. I don't see anything archaic about that philosophy.

I can say that I think very few point guards would have been able to make something cohesive out of what we were running down the stretch with Tucker, the Morrii, Wright and a hodgepodge bench.

I can also say that when the previous year and the first half of this year with Bledsoe at the point and a few more capable players around him that the team was very good on offense.
 

SirStefan32

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we were absolutely overloaded at the PG spot this year and it hurt us, but can you deny that with Bledsoe as our primary ball-handler LAST season, that when he and Dragic were in there together, that the offense was very good and the team was much better?

Year to year comparisons are difficult, in my opinion.

There was a lot more sharing last season. Bledsoe was the primary ball handler, but duties were shared. I'd say it was 60/40 last year between those two. Adding IT into the mix really screwed things over. There was no time for Dragic to run the point, and IT is easily the biggest ball-stopper I have ever seen.

More than anything though, the Suns were on a roll for the first couple of months, but I really don't think Bledsoe/ Dragic pairing was the main reason for that. It was a gimmick, and it took teams by surprise. Not only that, but Plumlee looked like a legitimate NBA Center, and Frye was on fire. As Plumlee regressed and Frye lost his touch from behind the arc, the Suns got worse.
Say what you will about Frye, he was a willing passer. Neither of the twins are willing passers. Ball movement was non-existent this year, and that killed the Suns. Bledsoe was a part of it, IT was a huge part of it, Morris twins were a part of it, but it's not any single one of them that was to blame- it was the sum of all these parts that caused the ball movement to disappear.

Then you have to consider the shooting. Dragic shot like a mad man last year. Frye shot very well last year until he hit that slump. Green was a much better player last year. I am sure shooting was affected by the lack of ball movement to some degree.

I am not quite sure if I articulated my thoughts well, but I really think it's so difficult to make a year to year comparison with this team and the last year's team.
 

Errntknght

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Normally you want your GM and head coach to be on the same page but since their plan is to use two combo guards running Hornacek's offense, its most depressing. They're both pretty good players, of course, but we'll be lucky if they have as good chemistry as Bled and Dragic did - which wasn't anything to get excited about. It will shut Goodwin out unless he's the backup PG and he's not looking promising in that role. I assume Horny and McD have that much figured out so they should be looking to trade him for a backup point this summer - another season on the pine and he'll bolt for sure.

The way I see it is that if things, somehow, go well we'll be stuck with their plan for five years before they realize it's not good enough to compete at the highest level.. I feel like I did with D'Antoni at the helm - to me there was just no way his scheme would lead to sustained post season success because of weakness on defense (including rebounding). I don't think H & M will sell defense as short as Mike did but I fear that the offense will never be top notch.

We'd be better off if something went badly awry quickly - like someone outbidding us for Brandon Knight or he and Bled become antagonistic quickly. Or the backup PG putting us in a similar situation to what we had three year with three PGs. A couple of hopeless years is better than five+.
 

JCSunsfan

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I can say that I think very few point guards would have been able to make something cohesive out of what we were running down the stretch with Tucker, the Morrii, Wright and a hodgepodge bench.

I can also say that when the previous year and the first half of this year with Bledsoe at the point and a few more capable players around him that the team was very good on offense.

I think the problem was not so much with the point guards as with the absense of Channing Frye. He not only stretched the floor, Frye was constantly setting quality picks on the perimeter that allow the offense to flow.

I think that Goran's regression was primarily due to Frye's absense. Frye was the one who set picks and then opened the floor for Goran to operate. If he doesn't have someone in Miami to do that for him, he will not succeed there either.

Frye did the same for Bledsoe, but to a lesser extent. But having Goran as a real threat made Bledsoe more of a real threat. When Goran started just camping out in the corner this year, movement for the whole team dwindled and Bledsoe ended up having to go 1 on 5.

Frye's leadership in the lockerroom was also a loss--at least that is what mgmt and players alike say. That loss is really hard to quantify, but this team has usually had quality veteran leadership like Nash, Hill, and Frye.

I was in favor of not resigning Frye because of the size of the contract offered him. I still think it was the right move. But they did fail to find someone to fill that role, either from within the organization or without.

BTW. This is why I would strongly consider Kaminsky with the 13th pick. At that spot, pick someone who will walk into a role on the team (unless there is a huge talent that slipped or something and is obviously much much better). He is going to have a solid, but not stellar, nba career. But his presence on this team will be more than just his individual abilities. He is big, very skilled, very smart, and will do the little things that will make others succeed. He is also a leader personality and will provide leadership in the locker room from day one because of his age and the leadership skills he has developed through four years of college ball. I know scouts seem to always prefer younger players, but there are some things that upper classmen develop that younger players miss--leadership primarily. I am not under the illusion that Kaminsky is going to be a superstar. But he could have a huge impact on this team.

There is more to be determined through scouting, interviews, and the combine, but that is how I see it so far. I do know that Kaminsky has nothing to lose by doing all the drills. He is already thought of as so unathletic that he has more of a chance of being a positive surprise than not.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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95pro

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Keep. He's the least of our problems. Need a D and three guy. And a stud PF.
 

Catlover

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I think the problem was not so much with the point guards as with the absense of Channing Frye. He not only stretched the floor, Frye was constantly setting quality picks on the perimeter that allow the offense to flow.

I think that Goran's regression was primarily due to Frye's absense. Frye was the one who set picks and then opened the floor for Goran to operate. If he doesn't have someone in Miami to do that for him, he will not succeed there either.

Frye did the same for Bledsoe, but to a lesser extent. But having Goran as a real threat made Bledsoe more of a real threat. When Goran started just camping out in the corner this year, movement for the whole team dwindled and Bledsoe ended up having to go 1 on 5.

Frye's leadership in the lockerroom was also a loss--at least that is what mgmt and players alike say. That loss is really hard to quantify, but this team has usually had quality veteran leadership like Nash, Hill, and Frye.

I was in favor of not resigning Frye because of the size of the contract offered him. I still think it was the right move. But they did fail to find someone to fill that role, either from within the organization or without.

BTW. This is why I would strongly consider Kaminsky with the 13th pick. At that spot, pick someone who will walk into a role on the team (unless there is a huge talent that slipped or something and is obviously much much better). He is going to have a solid, but not stellar, nba career. But his presence on this team will be more than just his individual abilities. He is big, very skilled, very smart, and will do the little things that will make others succeed. He is also a leader personality and will provide leadership in the locker room from day one because of his age and the leadership skills he has developed through four years of college ball. I know scouts seem to always prefer younger players, but there are some things that upper classmen develop that younger players miss--leadership primarily. I am not under the illusion that Kaminsky is going to be a superstar. But he could have a huge impact on this team.

There is more to be determined through scouting, interviews, and the combine, but that is how I see it so far. I do know that Kaminsky has nothing to lose by doing all the drills. He is already thought of as so unathletic that he has more of a chance of being a positive surprise than not.

Just my 2 cents.

You undersold, it's worth at least twice that. Kaminsky is a reasonable gamble, let's just hope he's still there.
 

Mainstreet

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Normally you want your GM and head coach to be on the same page but since their plan is to use two combo guards running Hornacek's offense, its most depressing. They're both pretty good players, of course, but we'll be lucky if they have as good chemistry as Bled and Dragic did - which wasn't anything to get excited about. It will shut Goodwin out unless he's the backup PG and he's not looking promising in that role. I assume Horny and McD have that much figured out so they should be looking to trade him for a backup point this summer - another season on the pine and he'll bolt for sure.

The way I see it is that if things, somehow, go well we'll be stuck with their plan for five years before they realize it's not good enough to compete at the highest level.. I feel like I did with D'Antoni at the helm - to me there was just no way his scheme would lead to sustained post season success because of weakness on defense (including rebounding). I don't think H & M will sell defense as short as Mike did but I fear that the offense will never be top notch.

We'd be better off if something went badly awry quickly - like someone outbidding us for Brandon Knight or he and Bled become antagonistic quickly. Or the backup PG putting us in a similar situation to what we had three year with three PGs. A couple of hopeless years is better than five+.

You hit the nail on the head. It messes with the role of Goodwin and future role of Bogdan Bogdanovic. It almost requires the Suns use a 3 PG rotation and work other guards around them. We seen the Suns try to deal with this when Knight went out injured.
 

Mainstreet

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You undersold, it's worth at least twice that. Kaminsky is a reasonable gamble, let's just hope he's still there.

Kaminisky would serve a key role as a backup center to Len. At least then, the Suns could commit to keeping a center on the court most of the time. He could also stretch the court as a 3 point shooter. The big take away from watching Kaminisky is he knows how to score in the flow of the offense and he is very smart.
 

sunsfan88

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Year to year comparisons are difficult, in my opinion.

There was a lot more sharing last season. Bledsoe was the primary ball handler, but duties were shared. I'd say it was 60/40 last year between those two. Adding IT into the mix really screwed things over. There was no time for Dragic to run the point, and IT is easily the biggest ball-stopper I have ever seen.

More than anything though, the Suns were on a roll for the first couple of months, but I really don't think Bledsoe/ Dragic pairing was the main reason for that. It was a gimmick, and it took teams by surprise. Not only that, but Plumlee looked like a legitimate NBA Center, and Frye was on fire. As Plumlee regressed and Frye lost his touch from behind the arc, the Suns got worse.
Say what you will about Frye, he was a willing passer. Neither of the twins are willing passers. Ball movement was non-existent this year, and that killed the Suns. Bledsoe was a part of it, IT was a huge part of it, Morris twins were a part of it, but it's not any single one of them that was to blame- it was the sum of all these parts that caused the ball movement to disappear.

Then you have to consider the shooting. Dragic shot like a mad man last year. Frye shot very well last year until he hit that slump. Green was a much better player last year. I am sure shooting was affected by the lack of ball movement to some degree.

I am not quite sure if I articulated my thoughts well, but I really think it's so difficult to make a year to year comparison with this team and the last year's team.
Plus last season was a fluke year because many players just happened to all hit career highs at the same time and the chemistry was just very, very strong.
 

sunsfan88

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Normally you want your GM and head coach to be on the same page but since their plan is to use two combo guards running Hornacek's offense, its most depressing.

What's sad is that no PG likes playing in that role. Dragic obviously didn't like it and wanted out. And even when Knight was acquired, it was reported that he doesn't like playing a dual PG offense either.

Bledsoe hasn't complained but that's probably because he doesn't really care since he got paid big time.

Most PGs want their own offense to run. They don't want a second PG hindering that.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm not sure who will be looking to sign Rondo. Perhaps the Lakers might be an option.
 

Phrazbit

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Rondo was probably on pace for a payday along the lines of 4 years, 10-14 million per year prior to his Dallas adventure. I'm excited to see how much 5 months of petulance will cost him.

Some team would have to have people who really know him to have confidence to give him more than a one or 2 year deal, and the only teams I can think of that qualify are Boston, who obviously does not want him, and the Clips who don't need him. He will likely be forced to settle for something like 1 year 8 million, a "show me" contract.
 

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