Blitz happy Horton

[desertdawg]

Horton kept sending the house against Carolina, even after Cam started lighting up our secondary. I'm reading stuff on the web (not in here) and folks are acting like it was the wrong thing to do. I loved that we stayed in his face all day, and I hope we continue this against Rex's punk ass. There is no way this dude is good 2 weeks in a row, send the house, send the whole friggin block.

Our secondary needs to learn to cover for that quick short crucial period of time while we are going after some fresh QB. It's like they are just starting to get in their coverage while the ball is already in the air at times. It's going to take some time, the quick routes (and getting burned deep) will come at us all day if we keep this aggressive style.

I know we got lit up last Sunday, but we got screwed a few times on D and there was no quit. I recall them holding at the end, that redzone aint no joke in Az. D-wash will be missed this week, but the squad just has to step up and keep that intensity. Kolb>Rex all day (I think that's what this game comes down to). I don't think either will have much time in the pocket and once Rex gets rattled by the blitz, he gets shook up and PP is on his way in for 6.

 

[kerouac9]

Horton kept sending the house against Carolina, even after Cam started lighting up our secondary. I'm reading stuff on the web (not in here) and folks are acting like it was the wrong thing to do. I loved that we stayed in his face all day, and I hope we continue this against Rex's punk ass. There is no way this dude is good 2 weeks in a row, send the house, send the whole friggin block.

Our secondary needs to learn to cover for that quick short crucial period of time while we are going after some fresh QB. It's like they are just starting to get in their coverage while the ball is already in the air at times. It's going to take some time, the quick routes (and getting burned deep) will come at us all day if we keep this aggressive style.

I know we got lit up last Sunday, but we got screwed a few times on D and there was no quit. I recall them holding at the end, that redzone aint no joke in Az. D-wash will be missed this week, but the squad just has to step up and keep that intensity. Kolb>Rex all day (I think that's what this game comes down to). I don't think either will have much time in the pocket and once Rex gets rattled by the blitz, he gets shook up and PP is on his way in for 6.

I think the issue wasn't that the coverage wasn't there for the quick pass, it's that the blitz didn't (never) arrived before the receivers were deep into their routes and the coverages started to break down.

The problem with the secondary is inexperience. The problem with the pass rush is ineffectiveness. The first thing gets better with time. The second...?

 

[desertdawg]

I think the issue wasn't that the coverage wasn't there for the quick pass, it's that the blitz didn't (never) arrived before the receivers were deep into their routes and the coverages started to break down.

The problem with the secondary is inexperience. The problem with the pass rush is ineffectiveness. The first thing gets better with time. The second...?

Newton bought himself some time during a lot of those plays, I don't see Rex Grossman having the same success,. I don't see a lot of NFL QBs having as much success as Cam did (it was a record after all). Some will duck and take cover (el sacko), some will scramble and try to force it (el picko), and some will burn it (el about 20% of QuBneros). Some of those deep passes happened when the defense thought it was a quick pass and bit on it, then they continued their route deep after Cam scrambled and made some awesome throws.

How many QBs do we face this year that can do what Cam did? We have holes in the defense, but it doesn't mean every QB will put up those #s, or avoid the sack. I hope we can rely on the offense early on this year, because the defense needs time to get their timing together.

 

[Bert]

I think the main problem with our secondary is that they are still playing 10 yards off everyone at the line of scrimmage. I saw it atleast 6 or 7 times on Sunday (and confirmed it on DVR) where the blitz came free through the line, Newton had 1-2 seconds to throw, but he would hit his WR or TE on a short route and the coverage couldn't get there because it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for them to close their coverage gaps in that amount of time.

I know we are trying to keep people from getting behind us, but it does not do any good to have your DB's play 10 yards off everyone because marching down the field 10 yards at a time is just as good as a 80yd bomb.

You cant have that big of a gap when you're sending the blitz, they are contradictory strategies on Defense. It's basically saying; 'yea we're sending the blitz but we're playing so far off, you can kill us with quick slants all day. Have fun!'

The CB's need to play closer to the line so they can play tighter coverage EARLY in plays and we just have to trust that they have the speed to cover guys if the blitz doesn't get there quickly.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's funny. In Carolina, all their fans talk about, is how Newton was constantly pressured, but stood in the pocket and delivered strikes.

That's what I saw. The blitz was effective, but we gave up so many short to intermediate passes due to a combination of good throws and dbs not breaking on the ball quick enough.

 

[az1965]

So I was thinking that the handful of times that we did not blitz, Cam actually performed poorly as he had to read the defense and make decisions. But we kept going to blitz and he kept burning us with wide open receivers.

 

[Jasper]

There are loads of experienced QBs and coaches that have watched the tape and will know how to beat us. Bottom line is we have to fix our faults and improve our pass defense and red zone offense. Hopefully the coaches will call a good game.

 

[187]

I don't know how many times Cam extended plays with his ability to roll out of the pocket when pressure was coming, but I felt like it was at least a few. Most QB's we play won't have the athletic ability to do that successfully more times than not, so I think if we bring the heat on the train rex he will revert back to his old self imploding self. The one thing I remember about Rex when he was playing with the Bears is that he would have 4-5 games where he put up really good numbers and then he would have 4-5 games where his passer rating was sub 50. Hopefully a sub 50 game is in store.

So I was thinking that the handful of times that we did not blitz, Cam actually performed poorly as he had to read the defense and make decisions. But we kept going to blitz and he kept burning us with wide open receivers.

I'm pretty sure we really backed off on pressuring Cam in Carolina's final drive and he hit us for two 20 something yard passes. Although I agree with you that sometimes in that game where bringing a lot of heat was getting us eaten up. Ray just needs to see how the team plays in a real game and find that happy medium between bringing the house and only bringing 3.

There are loads of experienced QBs and coaches that have watched the tape and will know how to beat us. Bottom line is we have to fix our faults and improve our pass defense and red zone offense. Hopefully the coaches will call a good game.

It's also Ray's job to study our game film vs Carolina and make the necessary corrections on the plays we got beat on. Surely there wasn't a shortage of material for him to make adjustments on this week

 

[D-Dogg]

I freaking love it. I'd rather lose a game bringing the heat like crazy than lose a game playing meek. We've lost a LOT of games playing meek.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I freaking love it. I'd rather lose a game bringing the heat like crazy than lose a game playing meek. We've lost a LOT of games playing meek.

This. and it would drive me crazy.

Nothing causes turnovers more than pressure on the QB. The blitz packages will also likely become more effective over time as players get more comfortable with it.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think the issue wasn't that the coverage wasn't there for the quick pass, it's that the blitz didn't (never) arrived before the receivers were deep into their routes and the coverages started to break down.

The problem with the secondary is inexperience. The problem with the pass rush is ineffectiveness. The first thing gets better with time. The second...?

Agreed.

Yeah, we got more pressure but in reality the defense will be even more effective with better pass rushers.

That being said I LOVED how Horton called the defense. He just kept coming. If our pass rushers aren't good enough this year, then our coaches will have all the proof in the world to make that statement.

I don't think Horton is going to stop blitzing anytime soon, nor would I want to see him do that.

Bring the heat!

 

[Cardiac]

Good thread with interesting thoughts on both sides of the coin. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the Cards blitzers were very focused on staying in their lanes because of Newts ability to run. This keeps very mobile QB's from gaining big chunks of yards on the ground but does have a tendency to lesson how quickly one gets to the QB.

The more we blitz the better we will get at it and the coverage behind those sacks will improve as well. As Dawg stated," Don't just send the house but send the whole friggin block".

 

[Stout]

I freaking love it. I'd rather lose a game bringing the heat like crazy than lose a game playing meek. We've lost a LOT of games playing meek.

Bingo. The NFL Network highlighted our problem last night. They said we kept getting our signals mixed in the secondary and we blew coverages all over the place. They also noted that this is something, in a new system with limited practice time, that will get better over time.

 

[jerseyred]

I freaking love it. I'd rather lose a game bringing the heat like crazy than lose a game playing meek. We've lost a LOT of games playing meek.

Donald you are 100% right bring the HEAT!!!!!!!

 

[conraddobler]

So I was thinking that the handful of times that we did not blitz, Cam actually performed poorly as he had to read the defense and make decisions. But we kept going to blitz and he kept burning us with wide open receivers.

Quietly I agree with you and said so before the game.

The proper strategy to play Cam Newton, not every game but Cam Newton, was to simply collapse the pocket, stay in your lanes, contain him running and play coverage, end of story.

I love aggresive defenses myself but I love the best idea better.

In this case it wouldn't IMO of been even close had we done the above.

 

[conraddobler]

Oh my word.

You guys have discovered how to win more games, just blitz more, dear lord.

Listen to yourselves, there's a fine line between being a whimp because you never have the nads to blitz and committing suicide by blitzing too much.

I can't wait until we play someone like Warner, who would probably pay you 5000 a play to blitz.

 

[JeffGollin]

First of all, a key underlying principle of the 34 is that, in its base scheme, someone in addition to the Front 3 will be coming on every down. Just who that individual will be becomes part of the puzzle for offensive blockers.

Usually it's one of the OLB's, but it could be a DB or ILB. Or - the way Horton dials it up - the four-man rush could consist of 2 linemen plus two other guys from the Back 8 (with one of the D-linemen dropping into coverage).

And that's just the base defense.

Horton could rush fewer than four and drop everyone else into coverage.

Or he could bring a 5th or 6th pass rusher and place more individual responsibilities on the D-Backs.

I view Horton as kind of "The Mike Martz" of DC's - Martz is totally unafraid of dialing up any play at any time from anywhere on the field. (He could run a QB sneak on 3rd and 25 at his own goal line. Or he could just as easily go long. Or run an end-around). I get the feeling that Horton is equally as crazy.

I love it.

 

[DoTheDew]

I think the issue wasn't that the coverage wasn't there for the quick pass, it's that the blitz didn't (never) arrived before the receivers were deep into their routes and the coverages started to break down.

The problem with the secondary is inexperience. The problem with the pass rush is ineffectiveness. The first thing gets better with time. The second...?

Exactly what I said after pre-season ended. We've got old, slow OLBs. You can't run a Blitzburgh defense without quality pass rushers on the edges. I was told "oh but we have CC and DD it will be fine!!"

 

[CardLogic]

The NFL Network highlighted our problem last night. They said we kept getting our signals mixed in the secondary and we blew coverages all over the place. They also noted that this is something, in a new system with limited practice time, that will get better over time.

They pretty much admitted this same thing on the Cardinals own web site. http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...ces-Back/516d2a89-b7cf-4d45-b906-89cbbb88dbc6

 

[Duckjake]

Bingo. The NFL Network highlighted our problem last night. They said we kept getting our signals mixed in the secondary and we blew coverages all over the place. They also noted that this is something, in a new system with limited practice time, that will get better over time.

This is something that with Adrian Wilson in the secondary that has never gotten better over time.

In addition the Cardinals change defensive backfields like they were changing the oil in their cars. How are they ever going to learn to work together in that situation?

2006 Rolle,Green/Macklin,Griffith and Wilson
2007 Hood,Green/Rolle,Holt and Wilson
2008 Hood,Green/DRC,Rolle,and Wilson
2009 McFadden,DRC,Rolle and Wilson
2010 DRC,Toler/Adams,Rhodes and Wilson
2011 Peterson,Jefferson,Rhodes and Wilson

But it is a new year. Lets hope that this time the NFL Network is right.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

]I think the main problem with our secondary is that they are still playing 10 yards off everyone at the line of scrimmage[/B]. I saw it atleast 6 or 7 times on Sunday (and confirmed it on DVR) where the blitz came free through the line, Newton had 1-2 seconds to throw, but he would hit his WR or TE on a short route and the coverage couldn't get there because it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for them to close their coverage gaps in that amount of time.

I know we are trying to keep people from getting behind us, but it does not do any good to have your DB's play 10 yards off everyone because marching down the field 10 yards at a time is just as good as a 80yd bomb.

You cant have that big of a gap when you're sending the blitz, they are contradictory strategies on Defense. It's basically saying; 'yea we're sending the blitz but we're playing so far off, you can kill us with quick slants all day. Have fun!'

The CB's need to play closer to the line so they can play tighter coverage EARLY in plays and we just have to trust that they have the speed to cover guys if the blitz doesn't get there quickly.

It's not 10 yards off. It's 7 yards, one yard in or out. Down and distance is an issue in setting your corners, and keep in mind if you play tight on a blitz and the QB reads it correctly, it's a very, very long gain.

 

[conraddobler]

First of all, a key underlying principle of the 34 is that, in its base scheme, someone in addition to the Front 3 will be coming on every down. Just who that individual will be becomes part of the puzzle for offensive blockers.

Usually it's one of the OLB's, but it could be a DB or ILB. Or - the way Horton dials it up - the four-man rush could consist of 2 linemen plus two other guys from the Back 8 (with one of the D-linemen dropping into coverage).

And that's just the base defense.

Horton could rush fewer than four and drop everyone else into coverage.

Or he could bring a 5th or 6th pass rusher and place more individual responsibilities on the D-Backs.

I view Horton as kind of "The Mike Martz" of DC's - Martz is totally unafraid of dialing up any play at any time from anywhere on the field. (He could run a QB sneak on 3rd and 25 at his own goal line. Or he could just as easily go long. Or run an end-around). I get the feeling that Horton is equally as crazy.

I love it.

Ok that's fine for mediocre teams, which pretty much means any team in our division but for any good team with a good offense we don't have the players for that.

If we don't watch it we're going to leave something open with a defense like that simply because we don't have the horsepower to hold the coverage the tick or two longer than it takes to make that work.

So I'm all for it until it dosen't work and against a very good team it's not going to work.

Then you're going to have to be much more coverage oriented and pick your spots.

Now with one all pro lber, one all pro corner and an all pro safety with all other players being average or better you can pretty much dial that defense up on anyone, but that's the minimum you'd need to have to run it IMO against an elite offensive team.

I think later on we might have that in a year or two, and that's really my point, we're not going to be able to go very far and winning our division will be awesome if we can do that, next year probably a playoff win, then after that we should contend for a title for a year or two.

 

[Jasper]

This is something that with Adrian Wilson in the secondary that has never gotten better over time.

In addition the Cardinals change defensive backfields like they were changing the oil in their cars. How are they ever going to learn to work together in that situation?

2006 Rolle,Green/Macklin,Griffith and Wilson
2007 Hood,Green/Rolle,Holt and Wilson
2008 Hood,Green/DRC,Rolle,and Wilson
2009 McFadden,DRC,Rolle and Wilson
2010 DRC,Toler/Adams,Rhodes and Wilson
2011 Peterson,Jefferson,Rhodes and Wilson

But it is a new year. Lets hope that this time the NFL Network is right.

It also didn't help that we are on our 3rd DC in 3 years! Actually 4 years but I don't count last year because we didn't have a defense last year. Something like 31st or 32nd in the league.

 

[Buckybird]

Blitzing leaves vulnearable holes in a defense, especially when playing zone. And if it doesn't get there it magnifies the problem. The zones we played last week prove that, alot of guys were running wide open regardless of someone blowing coverage like AW did. Sure we have a new scheme, young players & a new DC, but teams live by the blitz & die by the blitz. I love Horton's attitude to attack but IMO it needs to be toned down slightly. A great NFL QB like Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Marino, etc would salivate being blitzed as often as we did last week.

Hey Cam had a good game last week, but I still don't think he's ever gonna be a great NFL QB...solid-good & nothing more. Wait until a good D faces him because the Cards are nowhere close!!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It's funny. In Carolina, all their fans talk about, is how Newton was constantly pressured, but stood in the pocket and delivered strikes.

That's what I saw. The blitz was effective, but we gave up so many short to intermediate passes due to a combination of good throws and dbs not breaking on the ball quick enough.

Agreed