Board Seems Confused

[JeffGollin]

Free Speech & all that.

But I must admit that all the negative stuff on this board is over-the-top depressing.

The downer vibe of the fan base doesn’t send a very pleasant message to players considering playing here.

A far more notable challenge for Cardinal fans should be to replace the whining and figure out what steps are needed to take all this bad stuff and fix it.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Free Speech & all that.

But I must admit that all the negative stuff on this board is over-the-top depressing.

The downer vibe of the fan base doesn’t send a very pleasant message to players considering playing here.

A far more notable challenge for Cardinal fans should be to replace the whining and figure out what steps are needed to take all this bad stuff and fix it.

Or we "whine" and use the complaining to try to force the team to do better. The only thing that's going to move Bidwill is to hit him in his pocket book and his ego. Nothing is going to change if we just go along with everything they do and support the team like if they're winning the Super Bowl every year.

Phoenix, especially the media, is full of sycophants that go along with whatever the teams tell them. We don't have to become Philly but we need to hold their feet to the fire more if we're going to get change.

 

[NWMike]

"The only thing that's going to move Bidwill is to hit him in his pocket book and his ego. Nothing is going to change if we just go along with everything they do and support the team like if they're winning the Super Bowl every year."

Except there is no feasible way to even do that. Tickets and merchandise are rounding errors in most team budgets nowadays. The TV money is so insane they could play to empty stadiums and not sell a single shirt and still turn a profit. We shouldn't pretend Bidwill couldn't do more if he wanted to, this is more about either lack of faith in the team to bet big or more likely they are going to give Kyler a big payday so they are already pulling back on spending.

Honestly though as a long time fan I don't know how you could view the time between the end of the season and now as anything but a huge deflation of any excitement for the upcoming season. We get shelled by the Rams, our supposed franchise QB looks awful and then starts following the passive aggressive playbook to getting a new contract, we see other teams in our division making moves while we sit by and sign Will Hernandez. I don't know man. The NFC as a whole is pretty weak so we'll probably compete next year but I'm envisioning more days out of the golf course and DVRing the Cards game so I can fast forward if need be. I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching this team for too long to have much hope that I am.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Or we "whine" and use the complaining to try to force the team to do better. The only thing that's going to move Bidwill is to hit him in his pocket book and his ego. Nothing is going to change if we just go along with everything they do and support the team like if they're winning the Super Bowl every year.

Phoenix, especially the media, is full of sycophants that go along with whatever the teams tell them. We don't have to become Philly but we need to hold their feet to the fire more if we're going to get change.

yop. and the Cardinals are really getting a free pass because the city has fallen so back in love with the Suns (and rightfully so). Who the hell wants to talk about the Cardinals becoming a total joke to end the season and then somehow following it up with an off-season that so far is just as pathetic when the Suns are so damn fun to talk about?

oh... and for all the posters who consistently can't help themselves trying to start flame wars with other posters here, derailing threads with complaints about the "constant negativity", go look at the Suns forum, where you'll see the people who are "always negative" are positively EFFUSIVE over the Suns.

There's a reason there's a lot of negativity here and different behavior on the other board. And trust me... it wasn't always that way. The Suns board was brutal for years because the Suns were brutal for years. Then, they totally turned their fortunes around and are doing incredible things on the court, no matter the injury or obstacle. And because of that, we just get to talk basketball, bask in the glow of the Suns, with very little back and forth about anything else.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals have given us three straight epic second half collapses, a lone, humiliating playoff loss, rewarded those responsible for the collapses and playoff losses with extensions that take us almost to the end of the decade and now apparently, are just punting on the last year of Kyler's rookie deal according to some here.

Gee... it's a wonder some people here aren't whistling zippidy-doo-dah out of their buttholes!

 

[Devilmaycare]

Except there is no feasible way to even do that. Tickets and merchandise are rounding errors in most team budgets nowadays. The TV money is so insane they could play to empty stadiums and not sell a single shirt and still turn a profit. We shouldn't pretend Bidwill couldn't do more if he wanted to, this is more about either lack of faith in the team to bet big or more likely they are going to give Kyler a big payday so they are already pulling back on spending.

Money is becoming very hard to hit them with due to the TV revenue. If vote enough with not buying tickets to where home games are blacked out we might get get noticed. That's really the only hope on the money side.

That's why I also said ego. Every billionaire has a decent sized one and wants to look good amongst the other billionaires. No one wants to be the incompetent one. That's why we need to make noise and speak up. Bruising his ego is the only thing IMO that will really work.

 

[Ronin]

I think I am more confused at what they are trying to do.

 

[LoyalRam]

Yep I was saying this in another thread. Just because the Rams can spend into coming years caps doesn't mean the Cardinals can.

You still have to have the cash at hand to pay bonuses.

AND your owner has to be willing to spend cash. Carrol Rosenbloom in the 70's was such an owner and the Rams won 7 NFC West titles and a Super Bowl appearance while he was owner. Then his widow Georgia and John Shaw penny pinched and aside from a 4 year stretch during GSOT and a sporadic few years in the 80's, we sucked. Stan K. is spending money like crazy and seems intent on a winner to inhabit his Taj Mahal of a stadium, and it's working beyond our wildest dreams. Owners hide behind the cap restraints it seems to me, so they can make a lot of money without trying that hard...without needing a Super Bowl win to make it, profit wise. With Stan K., Demoff, Pastoor, Snead and McVay we have a team that wants to win at all cost, and it's amazing.

 

[Garthshort]

My first year(s) being a fan of the team was the Chicago Cardinals....Sam Etcheverry, Raplh Gugliemi days so "I got you beat Harry." The nightmare that was the team's Super Bowl appearance was followed (albeit not closely) by Thanksgiving 1976 when the Dolphins led by Bob Griese if I recall took the Coryell Cards out of their orbit in about 15 minutes and that was the end of a possible playoff and did not make for a joyous turkey dinner that evening. Ciao. The worst owner in all of sports was close between William B and the former owner of the Golden State Warriors a certified maniac. Ciao! Yeah the pix is our Dobermann Heidi....as are all Dobies, a super delight.

And I have you beat, Lobo, since I go back to the $1M dollar backfield. Paul Christman, QB, Pat Harder, FB, and Charlie Trippi and Elmer Angsman, HB. Marshall Goldberg was the back off the bench. They were the guys who got me hooked.

 

[Krangodnzr]

AND your owner has to be willing to spend cash. Carrol Rosenbloom in the 70's was such an owner and the Rams won 7 NFC West titles and a Super Bowl appearance while he was owner. Then his widow Georgia and John Shaw penny pinched and aside from a 4 year stretch during GSOT and a sporadic few years in the 80's, we sucked. Stan K. is spending money like crazy and seems intent on a winner to inhabit his Taj Mahal of a stadium, and it's working beyond our wildest dreams. Owners hide behind the cap restraints it seems to me, so they can make a lot of money without trying that hard...without needing a Super Bowl win to make it, profit wise. With Stan K., Demoff, Pastoor, Snead and McVay we have a team that wants to win at all cost, and it's amazing.

Kroenke until recently was thought of as a clueless owner. It's funny how perception can change.

Bidwill is still operating fairly frugally, but he's not a cheapskate like his father luckily.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You're right. There is a big difference than having a net worth of 1.5B or 5B.

You clearly didn't read or chose to ignore my last post.

I clearly did. Those guys have real cash at hand. Bidwills net worth is almost all tied up in the Cardinals.

Jerry Jones owns a business empire as does Kroenke. Nice try, but Bidwill would clearly be amongst the least wealthy owners in the NFL and he's not even close in net worth.

 

[overseascardfan]

Sorry for long post but this is how I feel.

I think to level the playing field in every league, owners must all be billionaires in terms of net worth (not including value of team they own or are buying), no more millionaire owners. Bidwill and Kendrick are no where near Stan Kroenke & Mark Walter and that is where the parity in sports starts. Lower tier owners in terms of net worth obviously have a comfort level they refuse to cross in terms of spending and that hurts competition. With players salaries continuing to reach unimaginable levels there is no room in sports for owners who can't keep up with the trend. Franchises are all at a worth to were small money owners can make large profits selling now and won't have to deal with financial burden of team ownership.

If all owners were on same level financially then there would be no excuse to field teams that aren't at a competitive level. Some may argue well most teams are small to mid market so they can't compete, that's bull****. The Suns decided to start spending money with the acquisition of Chris Paul which obviously began the rise of the team's success we are all enjoying now and have continued to spend locking up key pieces of the team. When you win guess what owner's can do....raise ticket and concession prices because people will spend money to watch and back a winner especially in inflationary times. No one is going to pay money to watch a 110 loss team like the Diamondbacks, market be damned.

If you want to own a sports franchise you need to be able to spend money to make money. The Diamondbacks tried to play with the big boys by signing Greinke to that massive deal a few years ago and after it didn't translate into success they started shedding salary by basically letting players like Corbin walk in free agency and trading Paul Goldschmidt. To be fair, the D'backs misfortunes are not just the frugality of their owner, they have had some incompetent people in charge making head scratching moves that set the on their downward spiral.

I also feel that lower tier owners also hurt collective bargaining agreements as they hold up progress because any increased revenue that has to go to players hurts their bottom line. Big money owners realize they can't make money if there is a work stoppage but small money owners look at it as a way to save money if games get cancelled because no one is attending their team's games anyways.

There is a way for small market teams to be successful but it takes a lot of luck. If teams draft well then they can build competitive teams on a budget but any miscalculations will obviously derail that team building model, look at Cardinals as prime example.

 

[Mainstreet]

If all owners were on same level financially then there would be no excuse to field teams that aren't at a competitive level. Some may argue well most teams are small to mid market so they can't compete, that's bull****. The Suns decided to start spending money with the acquisition of Chris Paul which obviously began the rise of the team's success we are all enjoying now and have continued to spend locking up key pieces of the team. When you win guess what owner's can do....raise ticket and concession prices because people will spend money to watch and back a winner especially in inflationary times. No one is going to pay money to watch a 110 loss team like the Diamondbacks, market be damned.

After years of losing the Suns weren't going anywhere until they changed GMs.

Having rich owners undoubtedly helps but good decision making at the GM level can make a huge difference in leveling the playing field. After all there are rich owners whose teams are going nowhere.

When the Suns started spending they saw a championship window. I'm not sure what the Cardinals saw after last season because they had a winning season and made a playoff appearance.

It appears they decided to spend the money on the same GM and coach instead of improving the team.

 

[overseascardfan]

After years of losing the Suns weren't going anywhere until they changed GMs.

Having rich owners undoubtedly helps but good decision making at the GM level can make a huge difference in leveling the playing field. After all there are rich owners whose teams are going nowhere.

When the Suns started spending they saw a championship window. I'm not sure what the Cardinals saw after last season because they had a winning season and made a playoff appearance.

It appears they decided to spend the money on the same GM and coach instead of improving the team.

It ties into my point that drafting is key if you are not spending money. Jones drafted well while his predecessors did not.

Usually the best GM's are with big money teams because its hard to field a competitive team with pennies in today's sports world.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I clearly did. Those guys have real cash at hand. Bidwills net worth is almost all tied up in the Cardinals.

Jerry Jones owns a business empire as does Kroenke. Nice try, but Bidwill would clearly be amongst the least wealthy owners in the NFL and he's not even close in net worth.

I won't deny that it having outside businesses makes it easier. When your net worth is in the billions, you can get loans anywhere.

Hell, with my good credit, I get offers nearly every day for lines of credit. If I can, owners can.

 

[speedy]

I clearly did. Those guys have real cash at hand. Bidwills net worth is almost all tied up in the Cardinals.

Jerry Jones owns a business empire as does Kroenke. Nice try, but Bidwill would clearly be amongst the least wealthy owners in the NFL and he's not even close in net worth.

You're absolutely correct. I had the pleasure and honor of spending 1.5hrs talking to a well known NFL Head Coach (I'm sorry I can't name him, but my employment takes me on all kinds of wild journeys). He was half cocked and was really opening up to me. He discussed his relationship with his owner. He told me (I let him know I was a football fan in general, but I'm from AZ and a cardinal fan) the cards are different because most of the teams are owned by folks who made their wealth in other places, and owning an NFL franchise is more of a hobby for them. He didn't talk ish, but I understood his point... When MB purchased the "team" plane, it resonated with me a little different, and I see a correlation between that announcement and the teams nose dive (no pun intended) after the 10-2 start. MB>>>BB, but I believe he has reached his ceiling as an owner. Perhaps commiting to 5 years of "stability" will pay off, and it's perhaps MB's gesture of showing his commitment as an owner/turning a new leaf (I have political ties that have read me in to his behaviors/ business dealings/ethics and I personally think he's a total DB). Time will only tell. I'm not confident this org is headed for success, but I'm far from always correct. We shall see... I get the feeling most of the rest of the league looks at the organization as "oh ya. The Cardinals...."

 

[Stout]

The difference was that Lindley had a great defense that year. KM had an absolute crap D against the Rams. If our D could have held down the fort in the 1st half like the Niners did against GB, we could have still won that game.

Except our offense, especially our inept quitter QB, sucked out loud as well. Don't get me wrong--Lindley sucked--but KM somehow seemed to suck more.

 

[BritCard]

This team has no problem spending money. They gave $10m+ a year to the fat oaf that is Jordan Philips. They made Nuk the highest paid WR in the league.

Their issue has been spending it poorly. Something I hope this off season is signally and end to.

 

[BritCard]

You're right. There is a big difference than having a net worth of 1.5B or 5B.

You clearly didn't read or chose to ignore my last post.

Net worth and cash liquidity are not the same thing.

On saying that, I'm not of the opinion that our failure to sign players or manipulate the cap is due to not having enough cash on hand.

 

[TheCardFan]

It’s like the baseball Cardinals (fan). They settle for a Participation Trophy.

Is it?

11 World Series championships, one of the classiest organizations and fan bases in sports, and they consistently field competitive teams.

 

[Harry]

Is it?

11 World Series championships, one of the classiest organizations and fan bases in sports, and they consistently field competitive teams.

Ancient history

 

[RON_IN_OC]

It’s like the baseball Cardinals (fan). They settle for a Participation Trophy.

1926
1931
1934
1942
1944
1946
1964
1967
1982
2006
2011

The two franchises and their fan bases are nothing alike. I think Cardinals baseball fans are way more passionate and loyal…and if they ever give their team a pass, the 11 years above are the reason why.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep I was saying this in another thread. Just because the Rams can spend into coming years caps doesn't mean the Cardinals can.

You still have to have the cash at hand to pay bonuses.

Which means the “cardinals are cheap” brand still exists, they can just conveniently hide behind the cap as an excuse. I get it, the bidwill family has always been “football rich” not “rich rich.” They are wealthy because they own the cardinals not because they made money elsewhere and wanted to be part of the nfl and bought a team. There’s a big difference.

 

[JeffGollin]

One missing factor IMHO, is that the management acumen of most of the other NFL teams has improved while the Cardinal management talent has barely kept up. (Blink an eye for a split seond and watch the rest of the NFL world pass you by).

Solution - Lower the heat level and, instead, help team management operate “smarter.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kroenke until recently was thought of as a clueless owner. It's funny how perception can change.

Bidwill is still operating fairly frugally, but he's not a cheapskate like his father luckily.

As an owner you can be clueless but if you’re willing to spend, that’s your number #1 job. That and picking a good a GM and getting outta the way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry for long post but this is how I feel.

I think to level the playing field in every league, owners must all be billionaires in terms of net worth (not including value of team they own or are buying), no more millionaire owners. Bidwill and Kendrick are no where near Stan Kroenke & Mark Walter and that is where the parity in sports starts. Lower tier owners in terms of net worth obviously have a comfort level they refuse to cross in terms of spending and that hurts competition. With players salaries continuing to reach unimaginable levels there is no room in sports for owners who can't keep up with the trend. Franchises are all at a worth to were small money owners can make large profits selling now and won't have to deal with financial burden of team ownership.

If all owners were on same level financially then there would be no excuse to field teams that aren't at a competitive level. Some may argue well most teams are small to mid market so they can't compete, that's bull****. The Suns decided to start spending money with the acquisition of Chris Paul which obviously began the rise of the team's success we are all enjoying now and have continued to spend locking up key pieces of the team. When you win guess what owner's can do....raise ticket and concession prices because people will spend money to watch and back a winner especially in inflationary times. No one is going to pay money to watch a 110 loss team like the Diamondbacks, market be damned.

If you want to own a sports franchise you need to be able to spend money to make money. The Diamondbacks tried to play with the big boys by signing Greinke to that massive deal a few years ago and after it didn't translate into success they started shedding salary by basically letting players like Corbin walk in free agency and trading Paul Goldschmidt. To be fair, the D'backs misfortunes are not just the frugality of their owner, they have had some incompetent people in charge making head scratching moves that set the on their downward spiral.

I also feel that lower tier owners also hurt collective bargaining agreements as they hold up progress because any increased revenue that has to go to players hurts their bottom line. Big money owners realize they can't make money if there is a work stoppage but small money owners look at it as a way to save money if games get cancelled because no one is attending their team's games anyways.

There is a way for small market teams to be successful but it takes a lot of luck. If teams draft well then they can build competitive teams on a budget but any miscalculations will obviously derail that team building model, look at Cardinals as prime example.

It’s not the owners wealth that should be monitored. If you really want to create equity amongst teams you have to have a hard cap without the ability for cap games. That’s it. That levels the playing field for all.