Boldin and the domino effect

[spanky1]

So......we are hearing snipets of Boldin wanting to play hard ball.....and I'm not surprised. Wouldn't you if you had just recovered from MCL surgery and all of a sudden realized that your time in the NFL is fleeting. Personally this really bothers me......not that he wants to renegotiate.....but that he is suggesting he might hold out if necessary......and that this is becoming public.

If it were my decision, I would hold firm with the "we will not consider renegotiating any players contract that has more than one year left on it". NO EXCEPTIONS.

If we do, how long before Dansby (remember, he is represented by the Poston brothers) pulls the same crap........and Dockett (who is represented by Rosenhaus.......as is Boldin)?

Hell, in my 1st year as a consultant at the age of 25 (many years ago), I found work for my firm (over and above my area of expertise), that added $1MM right to the bottom line. This is not too far removed from Boldin's contribution in 2004 in terms of performance.........I got an unexpected bonus check for $25,000 and thought I'd died and gone to heaven. If I had said that I'm holding out for the moon and the sky, my ass would have been run out of that firm in a NY minute.

What happens next......does Bryant Johnson say me too? Bertrand Berry?

Boldin's "recent" attitude is telling me something.......he ain't the team first player that he made himself out to be.

 

[spanky1]

Boldin and the domino effect.....part II,

The NFL is going to have to get involved with this type of stuff......otherwise things are going to get way out of control. My suggestion:

a) the league disallows contract hold outs.......for every day a player holds out, it costs him part of his salary and another day gets added to the length of the contarct at the other end. In other words.......no ticky, no laundry.

 

[Russ Smith]

Boldin and the domino effect.....part II,

The NFL is going to have to get involved with this type of stuff......otherwise things are going to get way out of control. My suggestion:

a) the league disallows contract hold outs.......for every day a player holds out, it costs him part of his salary and another day gets added to the length of the contarct at the other end. In other words.......no ticky, no laundry.

Spanky would you also suggest that the NFL forbid cutting players with years left on their signed contract?

It's a 2 way street. People keep saying Quan signed the contract it's his fault if he's not happy. That's completely untrue. The NFL draft determines your slot, your slot determines your pay. Quan couldn't have said you know I really am better than Bryant Johnson I want more than him, he'd have never signed if he did that. He couldn't have said 4 years at this price is too long give me a 2 year deal, teams don't do that with high picks the contracts are almost always 4 or 5 years.

Quan had virtually NO option but to sign the deal he did and move forward. The Cards can structure the contract so that if quan's knees are a problem, we're not killed, we don't have to give him 20 million upfront. Fitz' deal is loaded with incentives, we can do that with Quan's too, we won't, too much competition would be a morale issue, but we could do it.

Everyone complains about the player wanting a new deal but has no problem with the team dumping the player under contract, we have entire threads about which players under contract we should cut.

 

[azdad1978]

Boldin and the domino effect.....part II,

The NFL is going to have to get involved with this type of stuff......otherwise things are going to get way out of control. My suggestion:

a) the league disallows contract hold outs.......for every day a player holds out, it costs him part of his salary and another day gets added to the length of the contarct at the other end. In other words.......no ticky, no laundry.

Yeah sure. You really think the player association would go with this kind of proposal? This game is also business for the players and if they hold out for more money more power to them. If the owners can cut players anytime they want these players needs to get as much as they can before their bodies give out on them.

 

[GreenCard]

Sign or trade him before the draft because I love Mike Williams and the super stud from Mich. and really hate unhappy players on my team.Thank God I talked Santa into a#11 instead of a#81.

 

[azdad1978]

Sign or trade him before the draft because I love Mike Williams and the super stud from Mich. and really hate unhappy players on my team.Thank God I talked Santa into a#11 instead of a#81.

No more high pick WR!!!!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I say give Q the money! He deserves it, why wait?

 

[Gee!]

Sign or trade him before the draft because I love Mike Williams and the super stud from Mich. and really hate unhappy players on my team.Thank God I talked Santa into a#11 instead of a#81.

Trade Quan??

Thats blasphemy.

 

[Red Dawn]

Sign or trade him before the draft because I love Mike Williams and the super stud from Mich. and really hate unhappy players on my team.

You would have to show them the money, too. Quan deserves the quan, I hope the deal gets done. If we dont pay him, someone else will. I had a feeling as soon as the numbers came out on Fitz's contract that this situation would rear its ugly head.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Quan's problem is that he's not in a very strong negotiation position after his injury.

I understand the idea of not throwing money around if you don't have to. But, team ownership needs to be reasonable too. A team has to know when to show appreciation for superior effort and performance. It's just the way we do business in America. You work hard, you perform excellently, you get rewarded. Like Spanky's 25k bonus.

"Appreciation" would manifest itself, in this case, by giving a player like Quan a new deal that would pay him something approximating his fair-market-value in 2005.

So, to me, the question is, in terms of dollars, what is Quan's FMV for 2005?

 

[Dan H]

Can the Cardinals give him a bonus based on the number of games he's physically able to play?

IE, 7 year, 40 million extension (about 2/3 of what Harrison got . . .)

8.5 million signing bonus . . . seven years at a base salary of 3.5 per. Every game he plays, he get's a 16th of a million.

 

[GreenCard]

This seems to be Quan's problem,FMV to Q's agent is not enough.

 

[conraddobler]

Boldin is very very angry.

He's a good kid so he dosen't make trouble and waited till the season was over to let this holdout thing slip but in the end it's just stage one, SOP for Rosenhaus.

The question is what does Boldin really want? Just the money or a new team?

I really think he may end up not liking the Fitz connection Denny has and try to use this holdout threat as a way to get traded.

Russ mentioned this was the logical conclusion of hiring Rosenhaus. It usually ends up with the player leaving the team. Rosenhaus is basically a pry bar.

 

[Russ Smith]

Rosenhaus is basically a pry bar.

You misspelled bloodsucking leech.

 

[Toro]

I say give Q the money! He deserves it, why wait?

He had one good year. Are you saying he deserves the big payday after his 2004 season stats?

 

[Russ Smith]

He had one good year. Are you saying he deserves the big payday after his 2004 season stats?

Berry got paid after one good year in Denver. Fitz got paid with zero good years in the NFL.

Quan is never going to be Moss or Holt, not fast enough, but in an injury plagued year with bad QB play and a terrible OC, he averaged 5.6 catches per game. Quan is the type of guy who moves the chains, he averaged 3.2 first down catches per game, Fitz had 4 more first down catches, in 6 more games. Quan had as many TD's last year as Fitz did this year.

the real question is can he stay healthy, anybody questioning if he's capable of having another good year isn't paying attention, he is, IF he can stay healthy. So build the contract around that.

 

[Simozona]

I say see what he can do in 2005, if he pulls numbers like he did 2003 then look into giving him his big pay day. As bad and wrong as it is for me to say this, but he could go down again next season, and miss more time then he did this year!

 

[Toro]

Berry got paid after one good year in Denver. Fitz got paid with zero good years in the NFL.

Quan is never going to be Moss or Holt, not fast enough, but in an injury plagued year with bad QB play and a terrible OC, he averaged 5.6 catches per game. Quan is the type of guy who moves the chains, he averaged 3.2 first down catches per game, Fitz had 4 more first down catches, in 6 more games. Quan had as many TD's last year as Fitz did this year.

the real question is can he stay healthy, anybody questioning if he's capable of having another good year isn't paying attention, he is, IF he can stay healthy. So build the contract around that.

I think it would be smart for Boldin to want his deal redone after next season. If he can have a good year in 2005, he would get a bigger contract than having it redone after a average/below average 2004 season. When healthy, he is a playmaker and the best player on this team.

 

[jstadvl]

I'm going in Russ's direction

Give him a very good siging bonus, make the rest of his contract based on the healthy knee situation. In other words, if it's an injury other than the knee-the Cards take care of him, if it's the knee again, we still take care of him but at a lower price. I doubt he'd go for that.
Me personally, I think the guy is worth the money. I also think it's just matter of being shown the team knows his value and respects that.
I don't think he'll hold out, and i believe if his guaranteed money is reasonable, he'll sign quickly. That,and the conditions surrounding it, will be the issue.

 

[Duckjake]

I think it would be smart for Boldin to want his deal redone after next season. If he can have a good year in 2005, he would get a bigger contract than having it redone after a average/below average 2004 season. When healthy, he is a playmaker and the best player on this team.

If 2004 was average/below average for the Q he really must be Super Human.

Projected to a full season his stats would have been 90-997 yards. Outstanding considering that unlike 2003 he wasn't the only option in the passing game and a deep pass in 2004 was 7 yards.

On the other hand Boldin should understand that Fitzgerald was simply part of the deal to get Green to Arizona and discount what Fitz got by about 25%.

 

[chickenhead]

Quan deserves as much as Fitz. They must have seen this coming when they paid Fitzgerald what they did. They had to pay him what they did because they made him the #3 pick in the draft. I still like the pick, but it's too bad that top 5 money causes such problems.

 

[Shane]

Wouldn't you if you had just recovered from MCL surgery and all of a sudden realized that your time in the NFL is fleeting.

Call me crazy but didnt The Quan just have some cartiledge fixed this year? He did not have any ligament damage

The only real "major knee surgery" he had was in college. HE rebounded just fine from this one and is showing no ill effects. In fact he was getting better as the year went along.

The guy had almost 60 catches in 9 games and not fully healthy till the last few games. He also had two century mark games. At that rate he would have had another 90+ catch season with over 1100 yards and he is teh lowest paid WR on the team

PAY THE GUY!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Call me crazy but didnt The Quan just have some cartiledge fixed this year? He did not have any ligament damage

The only real "major knee surgery" he had was in college. HE rebounded just fine from this one and is showing no ill effects. In fact he was getting better as the year went along.

The guy had almost 60 catches in 9 games and not fully healthy till the last few games. He also had two century mark games. At that rate he would have had another 90+ catch season with over 1100 yards and he is teh lowest paid WR on the team

PAY THE GUY!

Got a snowday here in OK, so I'll be keeping you guys in line today!

Agree that Quan played pretty well this year coming off the injury. He rehabed quickly, and came back ahead of schedule to help out the team.

He appeared to get stronger as the year went on. In my opinioin, in terms of health, he'll be 100% in 2005 (vs. 2003).

But I wonder how much of 2003 was the "Ray (big play ray making big plays like ray always does) Thompson Effect"?

 

[JeffGollin]

This issue has more far-reaching implications than simply Boldin.

More and more the Cardinal franchise (who's not used to winning consistently) will have to deal with the problems that accompany growing success.

As more and more players arrive who play at a high level, more attention has to be paid toward retaining as many as possible. This, in turn, will place greater and greater stress on the budget and cap and challenge the front office's creativity in putting together deals.

I imagine that management of perennial playoff contenders are used to this situation and can automatically go to their "negotiations playbooks" to come up with the right answers. This figures to be more unexplored territory for the Cardinals.

In addition, well-intrenched contenders need only point to their W & L track records to sell their key players on remaining (let alone attract new players)

I think it's important we (a) make Q feel wanted and (b) get a deal done. Because it will help establish a positive precedent for addressing the challenges that figure to come fast and furious in the future.

 

[Shane]

Got a snowday here in OK, so I'll be keeping you guys in line today!

Agree that Quan played pretty well this year coming off the injury. He rehabed quickly, and came back ahead of schedule to help out the team.

He appeared to get stronger as the year went on. In my opinioin, in terms of health, he'll be 100% in 2005 (vs. 2003).

But I wonder how much of 2003 was the "Ray (big play ray making big plays like ray always does) Thompson Effect"?

Ray Thompson Effect? The guy if healthy would have had 90 catches and 1100+ Yards. Thats following the single greatest season by a rookie WR in the history of the NFL. Thats pretty consistent. HE has more catches through 25 games than any player in history.

He deserves to be paid!