Bonds Exposed

Dback Jon

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All the sordid details in SI...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html

Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.


He should never be allowed to play MLB again.
 

ajcardfan

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Is anyone surprised by this? I'm only surprised that the extent of his use was way beyond anything I've ever heard of.
 

HooverDam

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I honestly don't care about all this steroids stuff. There is no evidence that being bigger is some super advantage in baseball. Football maybe, but not so much in baseball. It decreases flexibility, and has other negative side effects. Hitting long HRs has more to do w/ taking the balls momentum and pushing it the other way (this is why a fastball will go farther than a change up).

You can site Bonds and other players numbers going up all you want, but you should also take into account decreased ball park size and a more diluted pitching talent pool.

Furthermore, if he didn't break any MLB rule at the time, then he didn't break a rule. No matter how immoral you think it is, if it wasn't against the rules at the time, you can't go back after the fact an punish him.
 

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Why? He technically never broke any rule put in place by Major League Baseball.

True.

Baseball's fault for looking the other way for an entire decade.
 

Ryanwb

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Why? He technically never broke any rule put in place by Major League Baseball.

Technically there is no rule that says I can't go to work naked.
 

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Ryanwb said:
Technically there is no rule that says I can't go to work naked.

Sweet, where do you work?? I want to work at a place without a dress code.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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HooverDam said:
I honestly don't care about all this steroids stuff. There is no evidence that being bigger is some super advantage in baseball. Football maybe, but not so much in baseball. It decreases flexibility, and has other negative side effects. Hitting long HRs has more to do w/ taking the balls momentum and pushing it the other way (this is why a fastball will go farther than a change up).

You can site Bonds and other players numbers going up all you want, but you should also take into account decreased ball park size and a more diluted pitching talent pool.
What? Steroids are proven to help you not only get stronger but make you recover faster leaving players with less nagging injuries which inflate players numbers. There's no way Barry, Sammy, or Big Mac would have had their numbers were it not for steroids. And I'm not including the dozens of pitchers who used steroids to help them pitch harder and more frequently.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Ryanwb said:
Technically there is no rule that says I can't go to work naked.
There's obviously a difference. If there was a long history at your workplace of people showing up barely clothed or something like that you might have a point. But prior to the designer steroids of the 90s and present day there was a long history of MLB players using outside substances to improve their games and whatever these guys were using was seen as the next step.
 

Djaughe

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
...But prior to the designer steroids of the 90s and present day there was a long history of MLB players using outside substances to improve their games and whatever these guys were using was seen as the next step.

Just curious - what where the other substances prior to designer sterorids?
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Djaughe said:
Just curious - what where the other substances prior to designer sterorids?
An overwhelming majority of majoe league players used 'greenies,' a type of amphetamine. Players also used ritalin, mild forms of speed, or heavy amounts of caffiene pills to stay alert and improve focus and energy both on the field and at the plate.
 

Russ Smith

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HooverDam said:
I honestly don't care about all this steroids stuff. There is no evidence that being bigger is some super advantage in baseball. Football maybe, but not so much in baseball. It decreases flexibility, and has other negative side effects. Hitting long HRs has more to do w/ taking the balls momentum and pushing it the other way (this is why a fastball will go farther than a change up).

You can site Bonds and other players numbers going up all you want, but you should also take into account decreased ball park size and a more diluted pitching talent pool.

Furthermore, if he didn't break any MLB rule at the time, then he didn't break a rule. No matter how immoral you think it is, if it wasn't against the rules at the time, you can't go back after the fact an punish him.

If you read the SF Chronicle story that SI gets their info from you realize that Bonds (per their article) decided after 98 that he wanted to hit more homers than McGwire did, knew McGwire was "juicing" and consciously decided to do it himself. If steroids don't help you hit homeruns, why was McGwire on them and why did Bonds go on them?

As for injuries, the reason he switched to Balco is that he got injured too often using regular steroids. The first year on them he went from 210 to 225 in the offseason, and then tore a muscle in his left arm because his muscles got so big they literally tore the muscle away.

the main difference steroids make is those long flyballs that were warning track outs in the past, are now homeruns. Over the course of a season that makes a big difference. The Chronicle article also has an interesting comment about his use of human growth hormone, Bonds ex girlfriend claims that Bonds told her for some reason HGH seemed to improve his eyesight.
 
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Dback Jon

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Russ Smith said:
Bonds ex girlfriend claims that Bonds told her for some reason HGH seemed to improve his eyesight.

Hmm - gimme some of that!
 
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Dback Jon

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Why? He technically never broke any rule put in place by Major League Baseball.

True, but what he did was illegal in any event.
 

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Dback Jon said:
True, but what he did was illegal in any event.
But so is using and possessing amphetamines without a prescription. Do you want to ban every player that has used greenies in the past before they were banned?
 
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Dback Jon

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
But so is using and possessing amphetamines without a prescription. Do you want to ban every player that has used greenies in the past before they were banned?

Sure - illegal is illegal.....

And yes, my Bonds-hate may cloud my judgement slightly. I also fully realize that MLB will do absolutely nothing to Bonds.
 

Russ Smith

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One of the other things in the story is Bonds ex Girlfriend says Barry used to get really jealous about McGwire, said everyone knew he was on steroids but "they're letting him do it because he's a white boy." Bonds felt if a black player were obviously cheating like that he'd be persecuted by baseball and the media much the way Aaron was when pursuing Ruth etc.

It is almost self fulfilling, Bonds goes on steroids, breaks the record, and now is being villified for doing it while McGwire is largely ignored. Of course I think the main reason is bonds is still playing, and McGwire is retired. Bonds apparently also told his girlfriend if his name hadn't been tied to Balco nobody would have ever heard of Victor Conte, said the story would have basically blown over with no fanfare if he hadn't been at the center of it.

It's hard to tell from what's in the Chronicle if Bonds means that as a complaint, or if he's somehow "proud" of being so infamous?
 

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Ryanwb said:
Technically there is no rule that says I can't go to work naked.
There is at my job. The dress code is writen out here and just about every job I have had in the last 20 years.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Dback Jon said:
Sure - illegal is illegal.....
Allright, we're going to have do clean out most of the Hall of Fame as well as remove a whole lot of current major league players and All Stars from the game. There are multiple reports that say around 80% of players used greenies or some other amphetamine to help them during the marathon of a season. Also some guys would chew out other players and accuse them of not giving it all if they "played naked." Some baseball writers are even theorizing that MLB's recent ban on amphetmines will have a much larger impact than the steroid ban.
 
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Dback Jon

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Closing arguments

Faced with the most damning, deeply sourced, comprehensive and chilling charges against Barry Bonds yet, courtesy of a new book by the San Francisco Chronicle reporters who have been on him from the start, decision day is here for Bonds, for baseball and for the San Francisco Giants.

In the crushing new investigative book "Game of Shadows" (an excerpt appears in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated), authors Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams use extensive interviews, grand jury testimony, secret documents and mountains of evidence to show in painstaking detail, not just that Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs to become the most fearsome slugger of all time, but how, when and what he used on a day-in, day-out basis.

BALCO Barry may never stand trial in a court of law, but right here, right now, on the eve of the historic season that could see him become the all-time home run king, the court of public opinion is in its closing arguments and he is way, way behind.

The book should either forever cement Bonds' legacy as that of a cheat of the highest order or allow the ballplayer to sue the books' publisher so ferociously for libel that he'll own half of San Francisco.

There isn't any middle ground. There isn't any room for debate or for situational ethics. There isn't any more time to put off making serious decisions about Bonds' future.


If Barry's reaction is to ignore, to pout, to try to clown it up in a pathetic, public relations-fueled drag act – his hair and boobs as fake as his career stats – then no longer can anyone sit by and idly watch.

That would start with the Giants, Bonds' employer and enabler which has profited even more handsomely than the slugger himself at this fraud show, this freak act. The Giants don't have the contractual right to cut Bonds loose, but that doesn't prevent them from finally doing what's right.

If Bonds isn't defending himself in a serious manner, then the Giants should bench him forever. Yeah, sit him and let the old drug cheat waste away, never getting a chance to take a final shot at Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron, never again letting the village idiot Giants fans applaud him as some hero.

Anything else is a slap in the face of baseball, of history, of San Francisco, of Aaron, of consumers who demand real athletes and not a chemical creation who hits every third pitch into the San Francisco Bay.

It's not like Bonds is owed anything. The juice made him rich and infamous. No one is asking back the money, no one is going to send him off to prison. There will always be ever-apologetic ESPN willing to cleanse his image with some silly reality show.

But for the Giants to keep pretending and keep profiting is just as despicable as Bonds, as the book alleges, popping 20 pills a day and shooting himself up with drugs.

Understand that Bonds is no one's victim, no one's good guy. Don't let the Paula Abdul act that got all the clowns on the 11 o'clock news chortling fool you.

This is someone who sat next to his own godfather – the classy, beloved Willie Mays – on the day he tied the Giants' all-time greatest player on the home run list and acted like they were equals. He knowingly smiled and let Willie make a fool of himself by defending BALCO Barry and providing political cover.

It takes a special kind of person to do that to his own godfather.

It takes a special kind of person to keep doing this to everyone.

The early excerpts from "Game of Shadows," set for release March 27, are stunning. It is not that the book reveals that Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs to become the most incredible home run hitter of all time. Only the most naive among us didn't already know that, Giants officials included.

It is the details that are too deep and precise for Bonds to ignore. It is also the revelation that Bonds, in 1998, watched the circus performances of Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and all the other highly suspicious stars of the steroid era and felt the need to keep up. So he turned to drugs.

Which is why "Game of Shadows" shouldn't just put the final nail in Bonds' coffin. It should convince Hall of Fame voters to turn a cold, callous shoulder on the entire era, keeping all of these puffed-out sluggers out of Cooperstown forever.

It should motivate Bud Selig to wipe the record book clean of that time frame, even reinstating Roger Maris' 61 home runs as the single-season record. Because baseball relies on having its lore passed down through the generations, and there is no way you'll ever be able to explain all of this to your children or your grandchildren.

But mostly this should make life perfectly miserable for BALCO Barry, who should be treated with scorn by anyone who cares about the game.

Presumably that starts with the Giants' organization itself, which if it has any courage, any ethics, any sense of right and wrong, would shut this charade down forever and stop stealing money off this sad, sad excuse of an athlete.


Dan Wetzel is Yahoo! Sports' national columnist. Dan is the author of two new books.
 
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Dback Jon

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MaoTosiFanClub said:
Ouch. Wetzel certainly isn't pulling any punches.


No he is not - and I especially like his calling out of the Giants
 

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LaCava pointed out that this case has repercusions for all of baseball. The Commisioner and everyone else turned a blind eye towards McGuire, Canseco , Sosa and all those sluggers to generate positive attention on the sport again. Bonds was just the progression of all that went on before. And now the games biggest achievements can be overshadowed by not having dealt with the supplement issues. Shame on the Commish the union and all who were complicit.:(
 

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I find it utterly reprehensible that the Giants organization did NOTHING about this- of course they stood to gain the most from this, and they did. Shame on them.
If his use was this rampant and extensive, surely someone had to have more than just suspicions in the clubhouse. He couldn't be using to that extent and no one be any the wiser. Bullsh**. Absolute bullsh**.
I'm going to the game on Monday at TEP against the Giants. I am thinking about buying a cow bell and ringing it if I even see him:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
 

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FinleyLover said:
I find it utterly reprehensible that the Giants organization did NOTHING about this- of course they stood to gain the most from this, and they did. Shame on them.
If his use was this rampant and extensive, surely someone had to have more than just suspicions in the clubhouse. He couldn't be using to that extent and no one be any the wiser. Bullsh**. Absolute bullsh**.
I'm going to the game on Monday at TEP against the Giants. I am thinking about buying a cow bell and ringing it if I even see him:biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Bonds has not made the trip to Tucson in years.
 

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