Book it: If AZ loses to STL next week Whis is toast.

[earthsci]

No point in jettisoning Whiz is Graves is going to be able to pick the new guy because we will end up in this same freaking position again.

Oh yeah...THIS!

 

[desertdawg]

Not for nothing dawg but apples to oranges. The Cowboys had an assistant coach who was highly respected and picked as the head coach of the future for that team. If we fire Whiz midseason we have the pickings of a bunch of guys who will probably have a difficult time getting jobs if they aren't employed by the Cardinals. All except Russ Grimm, who some team will hire for all of his "genius" OLine coaching.

I subscribe to what k9 has been touting, finish the season as is. When the season is over dump Graves and hire a competent, or at least respected FO man (Eric DeCosta), at GM. Take away %100 of Whiz's (and Fitz's) input on personel, and head into the season that way.

Yamon, it was definitely an easier move to make for Dallas.

 

[earthsci]

looking back through all of the Whiz era drafts I would agree. But he's really improved. DRC, the pro-bowl alternate has been replaced with somebody who will be a real pro-bowl corner. DRC started one game in Philly, who we traded for Kolb, sadly Kolb hasn't panned out but we HAD to do it to keep Fitz. If Fitz left, so would half the fan base, it will be like when the Suns let Stoudemire just walk and go dominate in NY, but 10x worse. Ryan Williams also would have made an impact this year if he played. I had WAY high hopes for him. Would have helped keep Beanie healthy too

I've always been a "In Whiz I Trust" guy up until about game 3 this year. I like him and do believe that he can coach with the right players but finding those right players...not so much. Get someone, not named Rod Graves, who has complete power on player personnel.

By the way, my comment about Fitz wasn't intended to imply that we should get rid of Fitz, just that he shouldn't be influencing the plan. He wanted Leinart gone, poof, Leinart was gone. He wanted Kolb signed, poof, Kolb is signed.

 

[john h]

I Cant See How The Fo Can Allow It...

Have the Cards ever fired a manager in mid season other than the best manager we ever had who went on to become a Hall of Fame coach for the Chargers? Mr. Bidwill is not one to pay two salaries for one position at the same time. He has not been known for being cheap for nothing. I doubt he would fire the coach no matter how we finish because of his contract. I think Mr. B Sr. is still back of that curtain pulling levers we do not even know about. He has laid it all off on Michael but I think Michael still runs important things by his father as Mr. B has run this team his way for many decades. Guys like him just do not pack it in and eat ice cream. His entire life has been about football and making money. I suspect the day will come when we do not sell out tickets to all our games. That will perhaps cause a change in philosophy at the top. The Cubs sell out year after year no matter how they play as they have a 100 year history of being in Wrigley where generation after generation of fans are introduced to baseball. The Cards have a history of moving from city to city and have no base except people like us on this board who are "mad as hell and are not going to take it anymore". Richard Nixons own words.

 

[52brandon]

I've always been a "In Whiz I Trust" guy up until about game 3 this year. I like him and do believe that he can coach with the right players but finding those right players...not so much. Get someone, not named Rod Graves, who has complete power on player personnel.

By the way, my comment about Fitz wasn't intended to imply that we should get rid of Fitz, just that he shouldn't be influencing the plan. He wanted Leinart gone, poof, Leinart was gone. He wanted Kolb signed, poof, Kolb is signed.

I understand your point. And now that Fitz is locked up, I think if it really comes to it, Bidwill will swallow his pride, and wallet, and get a different QB. But considering this was his last year, we had to give him the QB, unhappy Fitz walking leads to stands empty until the visiting teams are popular enough to fill em. We don't, and the Bidwills don't want that. AGAIN.

But I do believe his personnel moves have only improved. Granted there's only one way to go after drafting Levi Brown over AP

 

[john h]

For every year that Whisenhunt stays, this franchise will be set back 5 years. He will continue to sign washed up senior citizens from the Steelers, and get rid of any young talent remaining on this team. If the Cards care about winning at all, or the future of the franchise, they will get rid of both Graves and Whisenhunt after this season, and start from scratch. That probably won't happen, considering the Bidwills got their stadium and could careless about anything else.

Of course you are correct but you forgot to factor in "We are the Cardinals".

 

[CFLredzoned]

I can't see them firing Graves with 2 years left on his contract. But they can always change his title. Nobody has ever claimed that he makes football decisions anyway. That was never the intention. He's more of a business manager. You need a business manager anyway, so change his title to Director of Operations or something like that. Then hire a GM with the intent of making football decisions.

 

[john h]

I dont see Whis getting fired until the offseason, or maybe at the soonest the week or 2 before. For one, who takes over? Horton? Grimm? I dont see a viable option for interim coach.

But make no mistake, 4 wins or less and he is a goner.

Hire Bill Cowher. Of course he would not accept the job unless he had full control and that will not happen with the Bidwills. Maybe Greene and Ryan were not that bad after all.

In my world of dreams the Bidwills would sell the team to Mark Cuban who would spend all the money he could to bring in the best managers, GM, coaches, free agemts or what ever it takes. He is like Jerry Jones in that the guy really wants to win no matter what else you may think of him. I think Winning comes ahead of making money in a sports franchise with Cuban. With the Bidwills making money clearly over shadows winning. They have not learned that the money makers are usually the winners also.

Is there any justice if the Colts end up with Luck at the end of the year who then might have the luxury of working under Manning for a couple of years before he retires. It sure is not luck that the successful teams have admired and successful owners for the most part. I look upon the Mr. Bidwill Sr. as a respected old man with a long relationship with the NFL who other owners like but do not fear in anyway. He is a man who is a product of his past and has not grown with the times. He is a man who does it his way or the highway. Loyality appears to be very important to him (Graves). He sort of goes with the flow and makes no waves outside the organization and is more a Czar withing the organization than most people know. He would like to win but he has a problem with spending money to make it easier to win. I see Michael as a guy who would like to do more but my guess is probably held back by his father and is not going to cross swords with his father. Money will continue to be the driving force for the Cardinal organization as long as I live. I use the term "organization" very loosely in these words. We are not a real organization in its real meaning. We actually are probably the most disorganized organization in the NFL. An organizational consultant could be kept busy for many months trying to organize this outfit into a functional NFL franchise. We all have our own ideas about who to replace both at the top and with players. A good organization can keep you afloat even when people come and go. The best organizations are put together by the best owners and the best organizations are the usual winners. All of us had the terrible luck to attach ourselves to a team with an incompetent owner with no organization. It does not get any worse than that. We look all around the edges to blame some individual or player but the real problem is at the very top of the pyramid.

 

[john h]

Guys, listen up. You have not got the right idea for the needed order of departure. Graves must go first and he needs to go now or sooner. Lets get rid of him and get in a real gm so he can pick his own coach to anchor his ship. I say fire Graves immediately and bring someone in so that he can figure out the culture and change what needs to be changed in the off-season. We don't want to have to change coaches and gm in the off season.

Hire any GM you want but if you do not give him the authority and the responsibility that should go with the job nothing will change. We have never had a real GM. The Bidwills will not give up that much authority or responsibility.

 

[Duckjake]

Have the Cards ever fired a manager in mid season

They've done it twice since moving to Arizona and the results were disastrous both times.

Stallings in 1989 and the Cards went 0-5 including getting outscored 68-14 the last two games and Tobin in 2000 and they went 1-8 under McGinnis and were outscored 233-69! Of course they were getting the crap beat out of them under Tobin also. Last two games for Vince 14-33 and 7-48!!!!!!!!!!

 

[52brandon]

Is there any justice if the Colts end up with Luck at the end of the year who then might have the luxury of working under Manning for a couple of years before he retires

lol
I asked a friend of mine after they started 0-4 if Manning could have played but just took the safe route with himself and healing and let the team die for that. There hasn't been a more suitable replacement throughout his career

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

lol
I asked a friend of mine after they started 0-4 if Manning could have played but just took the safe route with himself and healing and let the team die for that. There hasn't been a more suitable replacement throughout his career

The interesting this is--and I heard it during a game broadcast last year and do not remember who to attibute it to--it was announced last year that when Andrew Luck was considering entering the 2011 NFL draft he consulted with a professinal QB on wether or not he should enter or go back to school and that QB suggested he go back to school.

That QB? Peyton Manning.

Break out your tinfoil.

 

[LarryStalling]

Why did every Cardinal fan know we were going to lose at halftime up 24-6?

Because many of us are lifelong fans and have been conditioned to expect such epic collapses and failures.

 

[LarryStalling]

I can't see them firing Graves with 2 years left on his contract. But they can always change his title. Nobody has ever claimed that he makes football decisions anyway. That was never the intention. He's more of a business manager. You need a business manager anyway, so change his title to Director of Operations or something like that. Then hire a GM with the intent of making football decisions.

Director of Cheerleaders and PomPom Squad

 

[Chopper0080]

Like it or not winning 2 div titles, 4 playoff games, and going to a Super Bowl get you another season in Arizona. Whis isn't going anywhere this season or offseason.

Personally I am of two minds on this. I don't think this is entirely Whis' fault which makes me ok with him getting another year. But, I don't think that we will add the strong football voice in the front office that Whis needs, so we might just be delaying the inevitable.

 

[52brandon]

The interesting this is--and I heard it during a game broadcast last year and do not remember who to attibute it to--it was announced last year that when Andrew Luck was considering entering the 2011 NFL draft he consulted with a professinal QB on wether or not he should enter or go back to school and that QB suggested he go back to school.

That QB? Peyton Manning.

Break out your tinfoil.

lmao

and the plot thickens

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Get out the butter and the jam cause Whis is most certainly toast!

**** Jackhole!

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Like it or not winning 2 div titles, 4 playoff games, and going to a Super Bowl get you another season in Arizona. Whis isn't going anywhere this season or offseason.

Personally I am of two minds on this. I don't think this is entirely Whis' fault which makes me ok with him getting another year. But, I don't think that we will add the strong football voice in the front office that Whis needs, so we might just be delaying the inevitable.

Whisenhunt officially got control over personnel decisions in his contract extension and he handpicked the staff as well.

This is almost entirely his fault

 

[Chopper0080]

Whisenhunt officially got control over personnel decisions in his contract extension and he handpicked the staff as well.

This is almost entirely his fault

Yes, but a strong front office voice can curb a head strong head coach. Graves is just a bobble head.

 

[Buckybird]

Yes, but a strong front office voice can curb a head strong head coach. Graves is just a bobble head.

Graves is a puppet so the 2 fit nicely