BOOKER & FULTZ

[pokerface]

Assuming we get the #1 pick and take Fultz...


Who assumes the "Franchise" tag?

Can Booker/Fultz coexist and thrive together?

How would it rank with current backcourts in the NBA?

Can Bledsoe be kept or is it a foregone conclusion that he has to leave?

If Bledsoe leaves...Does this version of the suns have a shot at the playoffs or is it another tanked season?

What implications does it hold for Ulis? How does he fit in?

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't see Bledsoe being kept around if we draft Fultz, I think they'd be similar to a Lillard/McCollum backcourt, which isn't what the Suns should thrive for.

 

[Hoop Head]

Also Ulis would be a backup, meaning he'd probably leave when his deal is up.

 

[Finito]

You build this team around Booker

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fultz/Booker or ball/Booker would both be BIG backcourts so nothing like Lilliard and McCollum who are smaller and quicker.

Fultz (6'4) Booker (6'7)

Ball (6'6) Booker (6'7)

I wouldn't live either. Other than Kidd/Penny year we've never had a big backcourt (and can we really count that backcourt?).

I love inherent mismatches in our favor.

 

[SirStefan32]

Fultz/Booker or ball/Booker would both be BIG backcourts so nothing like Lilliard and McCollum who are smaller and quicker.

Fultz (6'4) Booker (6'7)

Ball (6'6) Booker (6'7)

I wouldn't live either. Other than Kidd/Penny year we've never had a big backcourt (and can we really count that backcourt?).

I love inherent mismatches in our favor.

TJ Warren is a pretty big SF too. Chriss also seems to be a bit taller than an average 4, and I don't think he is done growing yet. If Len were an actual NBA player, the Suns could really sport a very big lineup next year.

 

[SirStefan32]

Assuming we get the #1 pick and take Fultz...


Who assumes the "Franchise" tag?

Can Booker/Fultz coexist and thrive together?

How would it rank with current backcourts in the NBA?

Can Bledsoe be kept or is it a foregone conclusion that he has to leave?

If Bledsoe leaves...Does this version of the suns have a shot at the playoffs or is it another tanked season?

What implications does it hold for Ulis? How does he fit in?

I think Bledsoe is gone if the Suns draft either of the two top PGs. Ulis is going to be the backup, just he is now when Bledsoe is active.
The rest of the questions are difficult to answer without knowing how quickly Fultz (or Ball) develop and how much they contribute. It's safe to say Booker has the "Franchise" tag until someone surpasses him, which I doubt will happen. That kid can flat-out play, and he is barely 20 years old. How Fults (or Ball) work with Booker, whether or not they can make playoffs, and how do they rank among the NBA back courts, it's impossible to say.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

We can't they both be the franchise? Every good team needs multiple stars now. Golden State has 2 mega stars and 2 secondary stars and they are doing fine.

 

[slinslin]

Whoever earns it.

And it is not like people were saying that when Durant and Westbrook were playing together that those were not two franchise players.

 

[pokerface]

We can't they both be the franchise? Every good team needs multiple stars now. Golden State has 2 mega stars and 2 secondary stars and they are doing fine.

There is a part of me that wonders how well they'd coexist. They could be great together or maybe clash? If it didn't work not sure who is considered franchise and untradable. I know this is getting way ahead of ourselves but hey...It's offseason now for us.

 

[leclerc]

I don't see Bledsoe being kept around if we draft Fultz, I think they'd be similar to a Lillard/McCollum backcourt, which isn't what the Suns should thrive for.

Why can't they be more like the Warriors backcourt? Or let's get Josh Jackson (JJ5? How many have we had since 2000?) and be like Mike and Pip.

 

[Hoop Head]

Fultz/Booker or ball/Booker would both be BIG backcourts so nothing like Lilliard and McCollum who are smaller and quicker.

Fultz (6'4) Booker (6'7)

Ball (6'6) Booker (6'7)

I wouldn't live either. Other than Kidd/Penny year we've never had a big backcourt (and can we really count that backcourt?).

I love inherent mismatches in our favor.

I meant it more in style of play, not size. Size is relevant but I don't think an inch here or there is that much different than what other teams are putting out there.

 

[slinslin]

its not an inch. Fultz is bigger than McCollum.

McCollum 6'3 - 6'6 wingspan
Fultz 6'4 -6'5 - 6'10 wingspan

And Fultz is 18 still and had a recent growth spurt. He is probably not done growing.

 

[Sunburn]

The guy that put up 70 points in an NBA game gets the "franchise" tag.

 

[Hoop Head]

its not an inch. Fultz is bigger than McCollum.

McCollum 6'3 - 6'6 wingspan
Fultz 6'4 -6'5 - 6'10 wingspan

And Fultz is 18 still and had a recent growth spurt. He is probably not done growing.

You mention Fultz age like it's a huge asset to him but disregard Bender being 18. Be consistent with your cherry picked stats and attributes.

 

[slinslin]

You mention Fultz age like it's a huge asset to him but disregard Bender being 18. Be consistent with your cherry picked stats and attributes.

rofl

The difference is that Fultz has not put up one of the worst NBA seasons ever.

Of course age is an asset. But it is not when you are so bad and other players at the same age vastly outperform you despite much less pro experience.

Nobody at Fultz age is outperforming him, kinda big difference.

 

[pokerface]

Of course age is an asset. But it is not when you are so bad and other players at the same age vastly outperform you despite much less pro experience.

Nobody at Fultz age is outperforming him, kinda big difference.

So what is the bottom line point you try to drive home about Bender? He stinks now so bad that it's over for him?

He hasn't had the benefit of american college ball experience...He was a backup for a Tel Aviv team for Pete's sake. He's RAW...Ok? We knew this when he got drafted. I saw flashes of potential in him this season... saw some aggressiveness at times which I like...Some fluidity too. I mean it's pointless to compare him to other teenagers. Players are unique and progress at different rates.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So what is the bottom line point you try to drive home about Bender? He stinks now so bad that it's over for him?

He hasn't had the benefit of american college ball experience...He was a backup for a Tel Aviv team for Pete's sake. He's RAW...Ok? We knew this when he got drafted. I saw flashes of potential in him this season... saw some aggressiveness at times which I like...Some fluidity too. I mean it's pointless to compare him to other teenagers. Players are unique and progress at different rates.

He showed way more than flashes. Saying he put up one of the worst seasons ever (quoting Slin) reveals someone that is only reading stats and not watching actual play.

For a player as young as Bender and got as little time as he did, those stats are meaningless.

 

[slinslin]

He showed way more than flashes. Saying he put up one of the worst seasons ever (quoting Slin) reveals someone that is only reading stats and not watching actual play.

For a player as young as Bender and got as little time as he did, those stats are meaningless.

No they are not and stats are still the best and most unbiased way of looking at it.

The Bender fans are constantly resorting to pointing at something that is completely vague and open to interpretation. I'd call that pretty irrational.

The odds that someone who has been this bad at any point turns into a star down the road are incredibly small. The best players with comparably bad seasons are Dennis Schroeder and Gary Harris.

 

[3rdside]

Pre injury .320% 3's and .475% 2's is not bad at all - you say his pER was around the 6 mark pre injury as well but how can you tell, have you calculated it / can you show your workings?


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[Chaplin]

No they are not and stats are still the best and most unbiased way of looking at it.

The Bender fans are constantly resorting to pointing at something that is completely vague and open to interpretation. I'd call that pretty irrational.

The odds that someone who has been this bad at any point turns into a star down the road are incredibly small. The best players with comparably bad seasons are Dennis Schroeder and Gary Harris.

You are entertaining, I'll give you that.

But you have been accused hundreds of times of not watching the actual games and you have yet, even once, to refute that. You have a handle on stats, that's for sure, but your reputation is that of somebody who reads a boxscore and automatically makes snap judgements, most of which aren't respected BECAUSE you don't actually watch games. Your credibility suffers greatly.

 

[3rdside]

In this case slinslin actually has a case - you don't need to see video to see that bender had one of the worst rookie seasons of anyone ever and the chance of beating those odds, even to become even just as good as Gary Harris, are remote.

But that's based on full season stats, not pre injury stats which aren't too bad I'm guessing, but let's see if slinslin shows us the math.

But even then the sample size will be tiny, so the eye test might hold a bit more weight when assessing his prospects going forward, just don't try to tell slinslin that.


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[Chaplin]

But even then the sample size will be tiny, so the eye test might hold a bit more weight when assessing his prospects going forward, just don't try to tell slinslin that.

That's the difference. It's not like he's had 100 hours of NBA experience in his rookie year. Heck, I wouldn't even expect him to pick up where he left off after the injury. Not when he's still a teenager.

Granted, Len isn't that great, but I think their rookie years are comparable considering how much Len was injured that first year. And we've given him several years now. Bender is definitely worth the wait to see what we have.

 

[pokerface]

That's the difference. It's not like he's had 100 hours of NBA experience in his rookie year. Heck, I wouldn't even expect him to pick up where he left off after the injury. Not when he's still a teenager.

Granted, Len isn't that great, but I think their rookie years are comparable considering how much Len was injured that first year. And we've given him several years now. Bender is definitely worth the wait to see what we have.

Slin still hasn't explained why he has such hope for Len after four seasons and no hope for Bender after one. I could have swore he said big men took longer to develop (in Lens defense). Bender doesn't qualify as a big man??

 

[Hoop Head]

You are entertaining, I'll give you that.

But you have been accused hundreds of times of not watching the actual games and you have yet, even once, to refute that. You have a handle on stats, that's for sure, but your reputation is that of somebody who reads a boxscore and automatically makes snap judgements, most of which aren't respected BECAUSE you don't actually watch games. Your credibility suffers greatly.

I believe he's in Germany, definitely somewhere in Europe, and I think everyone understands it's a little harder to watch live NBA game given the time difference but it seems like he hates European players by default because the way that Euro leagues track and record stats are much different than the NBA. If he used the eye test with them it would hurt his arguments with people using the eye test in the NBA so he'd rather rely on obscure stats that even Elias Sports would question the validity of. Rather than learn how stats are kept in the Euro leagues around him so he can have informed opinions he'd sooner write them all off as garbage. I imagine he's one of those people who plays a lot of NBA2k just simulating season after season without actually playing a game because that could corrupt the stats.

There are fewer minutes and games in the Euroleagues and also different levels of competition with 18 and under and 21 and under professional leagues. Also stats like assists, blocks, and rebounds are recorded differently than they are in the NBA so Euro stats don't translate to the NBA so he doesn't have a fallback if a player doesn't end up panning out in the NBA if he likes them or if a player is better than he expected. I can't recall the last time there was a European player entering the league that he liked, probably Milos Vujacic since he could make any claim imaginable because he was never coming over.