Boston Globe: Peter John Ramos Stock Rising

[George O'Brien]

Boston Globe: Peter John Ramos Stock Rising

There always seems to be a late bloomer in NBA drafts, and we have one this year in soon-to-be 19-year-old Peter John Ramos from Puerto Rico. He's 7 feet 3 inches, weighs around 275 pounds, and plays in Puerto Rico's Superior League for Caguas Criollos. The Puerto Rican season normally runs from June through August but is ending sooner this year because of the Olympics. Ramos is expected to be with the Puerto Rican team in Athens, although he was not on the team that qualified in San Juan last summer. But before that, there's the NBA draft, and this guy is rising faster than Fantasia on "American Idol." Ramos already has declared for the draft and one NBA executive, who has seen him only on film, suggested Ramos would be a top-five pick. Half a dozen NBA scouts were in Puerto Rico Friday night to see the kid in the flesh. "I'm getting incredible feedback," said Andrew Vye, who represents Ramos through Steve Kauffman's group. "If the draft were tomorrow, he'd probably be a mid first-round pick. But the draft is not tomorrow." Kauffman and Vye have enlisted the services of former UNLV coach Bill Bayno to school Ramos. Bayno is with the kid in Puerto Rico and has told Kauffman that he thinks Ramos is a superior candidate to 7-5 Russian hulk Pavel Podkolzine, whom Bayno worked out in Chicago last year and some feel is a lottery pick this year. Most NBA scouts got a look at Ramos last summer at the World Junior Games in Athens, where he averaged 11 points, 11.5 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks a game. But Vye said Ramos is a completely different player now (read: much better) and that "everything the kid can't do is teachable. He's coordinated. He's fast. He has a lot of Yao Ming-like qualities and he's 4 1/2 years younger." Ramos's story is one for the ages. He was born in Puerto Rico, but his family moved to New York City when he started attending grade school. He wasn't a hoopster. At the age of 14, when he was 6-11, Ramos was spotted at a big-and-tall store in New York by a Puerto Rican stockbroker who was friendly with the owner of Caguas Criollos. One thing led to another and -- presto -- Ramos and his family were soon in Caguas and he was playing professionally at 14.

 

[George O'Brien]

Draft City: Peter John Ramos

Draft City: Peter John Ramos

Name: Peter John Ramos DOB: 5/13/85
Height: 7'4" Weight: 282 pounds
Teams: Criollos de Caguas

Strengths

Standing seven feet and four inches tall, Ramos already has a huge advantage over 98% of the NBA. While most players at these heights are notorious for being labeled “stiffs” because of their lack of mobility, this is not the case with Ramos. He actually moves well for a player his size and is very capable of getting up and down the floor and moving in all directions. He is an above average athlete with good reflexes and decent coordination, and he can jump pretty well of the ground to block shots, finish alley-oops, and throw down powerful dunks. I personally saw him take off from not too far from the free throw line for a thunderous tomahawk jam in a game I watched, and I’ve heard other accounts from people of him doing even more impressive stuff in practices and in game time situations. What is probably most encouraging about Ramos is the fact that already at the age of 18 he has a good body and well proportioned frame which can be carved to help him withstand the physical nature of post play in the NBA. He has a good wingspan (no T-Rex arms), big hands and he is already reasonably well built with the potential of becoming bigger and stronger down the road.
On offense, Ramos really knows how to use his size in the paint. He has an assortment of post moves that he combines with nice footwork and you can tell that he’s well coached despite the fact that he has only been playing basketball for a couple of years. His go to move is a lethal jump hook shot which he can score with from almost anywhere in the paint. He has a soft touch around the basket, and he can use how lower body strength to seal and back down his man effectively on the dribble and finish in a variety of different ways. Once Ramos establishes position in the paint, he will usually end up with either two points or a trip to the free throw line. He has a very nice looking stroke on his shot and even though he isn’t a very good shooter right now from either the free throw line or on the perimeter, his excellent mechanics and quick release suggests that he has what it takes to become ample in this aspect eventually.

Ramos usually has a very good sense of where he is on the court. He is an excellent passing big man, and likes to use his height to find the open man cutting into the paint. He knows how to use screens to his advantage and excels in the high/low offense.

Something that should be stressed is the fact that Ramos is only a high school senior. In spite of that, he plays a couple of times a week against solid competition, at a level that is much higher and more physically challenging then most NCAA players--against men, not boys. His coach and team owner, Leonel Arill and Felo Rivera have made sure that Ramos is constantly playing basketball, something that is extremely important for a young developing big man his age. Just in the past year, he has played against American and Puerto Rican high school teams, in the Puerto Rican league, International play with the junior and senior national teams, and in a Puerto Rican developmental league for players under the age of 25. This is probably the best way to explain Ramos’ rapid improvement over the past year, along with the way his body has matured. Especially encouraging is the fact that Ramos has not suffered any injuries in this time and his body seems to be ready for the wear and tear of the NBA.

Weaknesses

Ramos has only been playing organized basketball for about four years now, and his game is understandably pretty raw. Defensively is where he will struggle the most initially. The Puerto Rican league does not have a defensive three second rule and Ramos spends most of his time standing underneath the basket waiting to challenge anyone that steps inside the paint. He blocks a good amount of shots in the Puerto Rican league due to his size and athletic ability, but this will not be nearly as easy in the NBA. His team defense needs a lot of work, as he is often slow to rotate and does not have or at least doesn’t show great lateral movement. He will need a good amount of fundamental coaching before he’ll be able to be considered the anchor of any defense. Ramos will also need to add some bulk to his frame, but this shouldn’t be much of a problem.

His hands aren’t great, it isn’t rare to see passes bouncing off his hands and he sometimes struggles to catch airborne post entry passes that aren’t thrown right at him, but this might be attributed more to a lack of concentration then anything.

The weakest part of his game is on the glass, he just does not put enough effort into boxing players out and he has a bad habit of just standing around waiting for rebounds to come to him. He also needs to work on his free throw shooting, as he is hovering around 50% right now.

The biggest concern about Ramos is regarding his passion and devotion towards the game. Just how smart, mentally strong and coachable is he? He will often display a serious lack of intensity and motivation on the floor, and he tends to get frustrated easily, especially when players get physical with him. He looks lethargic and even downright lazy at times, and he will hang his head and pout when things aren’t going his way. The same thing can be said about a lot of people when they are 18 years old, but with so much money and resources on the line and with his current status as a project player, teams might be more interested in rolling the dice on someone else instead of gambling on the fact that he matures.

 

[elindholm]

If he lives up to the hype in his pre-draft workouts, he could go as high as #2.

 

[George O'Brien]

Ramos is so new to the scene that he is not even showing up on most mock drafts. I expect the Suns will take a close look at him. Even with his weaknesses, he looks like a much better prospect than Pavel and is physically more developed than Perovic.

 

[Chaplin]

For some reason, it seems to me that he has "Daniel Santiago" written all over him.

 

[elindholm]

Not that size is everything, but he's a lot bigger than Santiago.

 

[George O'Brien]

For some reason, it seems to me that he has "Daniel Santiago" written all over him.

I don't think Santiago ever had a large amount of hype. Santiago had already graduated from college and played in Italy for a while before joining the Suns. He gained some visibility due to being one of the first Puerto Rican players to make it into the NBA and for being on the Puerto Rican national team. This year with the Bucks he has averaged 13.1 minutes in 54 games, scoring 4 ppg and 2.4 rpg. HoopsHype describes Santiago as having good size with long arms and a nice shooting tourch, but not strong enough.

Ramos appears to be bigger 7'4" to 7'1" and 285 to 260 and more impressive athletically. Is that enough? Until he gets to the US for tests, it is difficult to say.

 

[George O'Brien]

nbadraft.net profile

nbadraft.net

This was just written this week:

Strengths: Ramos has become a true prospect. His improvement from 2003 to 2004 has simply been amazing. Has a nice post up game showing a decent arsenal that includes a jump hook and a step away shot. He can also hit the outside shots and more importantly, Ramos looks to be more comfortable both on and off the court. He's showing leadership skills with his Pro Team (Criollos de Caguas) in the Puerto Rican Summer League. (considered the best league in Latin America) Ramos is also a good passer and is able to find the open man when receiving a double team. Considering that he is only 18, his body is filling out and he will eventually add at least 25 more pounds. Ramos is an athletic center for his height and is able to run up and down the court without any problem. Stamina is excellent. Has very good potential.

Weaknesses: Due to his age and lack of experience, Ramos is still a project that will require patience. The team that drafts Ramos should not expect contribution right away, it will take at least a year to adapt to the NBA style, especially on the defensive end. He still has question marks about his mental makeup and whether he has the discipline to adapt to the NBA. There are some question marks whether he has giantism like Pavel, as he has the same facial features. (But nothing has been documented, so this is purely a rumor.) Defensively needs to work on his positioning. Needs to become a better rebounder, although he has improved in that area. He is now blocking shots just because of his height, but must improve on his timing and maintaining his arms in a defensive position. Not a huge leaper, but has size. At times seems to take breaks during the game, and this is definitely the area he has to work most on. It's a matter of time before he becomes a good free throw shooter. His free throw percentage, which at this point is at 55%, but should improve as he continues to mature.

Notes: Ramos is averaging 20.4 pts, 9.6 rebounds, 3.5 assists and a league leading 2.3 blocks. He has faced some tough competition against players such as Richard Lugo, Lee Benson, Anthony Bonner, Junior Burrough Kitwana Rhymer and the legendary Jose Ortiz. Played in NYC until the age of 16 and was a top 20 player in his class, but didn't grow into his body and gain the agility he has now until he was 17-18.

-Herminio Nieves -- 4/24/04

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Wow this is one deep draft for center prospects.

A kid of this size is someone that could turn the Suns head.

Fits what I think they draft for...size...and supposedly is agile as well.

 

[slinslin]

Like I have said before. Ramos right now is establishing himself in my opinion as the #1 big guy pick if we do pick at #7 and want to go big.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/peterramos.asp

 

[George O'Brien]

The Boston Globe reports that Pavel just broke his hand. If that's the case, I would expect him to drop out of the draft. Ramos could become a hot product.

It's really too bad the Olympics are held AFTER the NBA draft.

 

[F-Dog]

Ramos is so new to the scene that he is not even showing up on most mock drafts. I expect the Suns will take a close look at him. Even with his weaknesses, he looks like a much better prospect than Pavel and is physically more developed than Perovic.

Actually, it seems from those reports that Ramos is behind Podkolzine on the developmental ladder. At least Podkolzine has spent a year chasing Euros through screen and rolls (and getting exposed in the process, but what would you expect?); Ramos apparently just sits there on defense, meaning that he'll be starting from square one when he puts on an NBA uniform.

I would still take Ramos over Podkolzine because of PP's durability issues, but then I would take almost anybody over PP.


As far as the Suns are concerned, it doesn't seem like their style to fall in love with a raw prospect at an open workout. It's more likely they've got somebody in mind already, and they'll spend the next few months attempting to hide that player (and their preference for him) from public view...

 

[elindholm]

As far as the Suns are concerned, it doesn't seem like their style to fall in love with a raw prospect at an open workout.

But it is their style to fall in love with a raw prospect at a private workout (see "Stoudemire, Amare"), so that's only one small step away.

 

[George O'Brien]

It really is too bad that the Olympics will be after the draft since Ramos is supposed to be on the Puerto Rican team. I would guess that Barbosa would not have lasted to the end of the first round if the Pan Americn Games had been held before the draft (Leandro had somer very good games against national teams with NBA players).

 

[Errntknght]

Maybe Barbosa would have been picked higher but after watching him for a year I wouldn't rate his as worth more that a #29 pick. In fact I think M. Daniels was available when we picked and I'd prefer him.

I sure hope the Suns don't one over on the rest of the league like they did with Zarko last year - he's a typical bad Suns pick, understrength with a bit of flash on offense.
Pretty much what the scouting report said, as a matter of fact - that and little D.

Really, except for Amare, the Suns haven't been that great at drafting since Percudani died. Marion is fine but throwing darts at that pick, just based on the guys rated about the same and we'd have gotten him, Posey, Jason Terry or Maggette. Big Jake was a gamble that didn't pay off. Casey was certainly far from a stellar pick - and a bit of a reach at the time. When you consider all the resources they have at their disposal to evaluate the prospects they should do vastly better than some one with a list of mock drafts and a dart board but they don't seem to.

 

[hcsilla]

Nash, Finley?

Big Jake was a very small gamble since he was picked at 1/25.

 

[Chaplin]

Maybe Barbosa would have been picked higher but after watching him for a year I wouldn't rate his as worth more that a #29 pick. In fact I think M. Daniels was available when we picked and I'd prefer him.

Why do you think that using hindsight gives you credibility when you post something like this? Of course, there are many people who right now prefer Marquis Daniels. But a year ago? If you say you pegged Daniels, I'll say you are probably a liar (it doesn't help when we actually didn't have a pick late in the draft until the trade with SA)...

I sure hope the Suns don't one over on the rest of the league like they did with Zarko last year - he's a typical bad Suns pick, understrength with a bit of flash on offense.
Pretty much what the scouting report said, as a matter of fact - that and little D.

Another of your many unfair barbs at a player. He was playing well before the injury, but since then, he's had problems. I think as a young player he deserves some benefit of the doubt. That injury was a real downer--not just a twisted ankle, you know.

Really, except for Amare, the Suns haven't been that great at drafting since Percudani died. Marion is fine but throwing darts at that pick, just based on the guys rated about the same and we'd have gotten him, Posey, Jason Terry or Maggette. Big Jake was a gamble that didn't pay off. Casey was certainly far from a stellar pick - and a bit of a reach at the time. When you consider all the resources they have at their disposal to evaluate the prospects they should do vastly better than some one with a list of mock drafts and a dart board but they don't seem to.

You're kidding, right? I think you might have a point with Jake and Casey, but Shawn Marion is clearly better than Posey, Terry and Maggette.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash, Finley?

Big Jake was a very small gamble since he was picked at 1/25.

He said since Percudani died, and I believe Nash and Finley were picked before then.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think the Suns have drafted reasonable well - much better than most teams in the same position. It doesn't mean they didn't miss some gems, but then so did most other teams.

In fact, one of the reasons why I hesitate to include the #7 in any trade or cap proposals is that the Suns tend to get value from their picks if the guy is not injured. Look at the Cavs if you want a team that has a hard time picking players.

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplin, "Why do you think that using hindsight gives you credibility when you post something like this? Of course, there are many people who right now prefer Marquis Daniels. But a year ago? If you say you pegged Daniels, I'll say you are probably a liar "

I didn't peg Daniels... I don't even recall his name being mentioned at draft time. There was much talk here about what a steal Barbosa was and it hasn't proved to be the case so far. Not a bad pickup at #29 but no steal. He was getting some play on the mocks, so it wasn't like the Suns unearthed him.


"Another of your many unfair barbs at a player. He was playing well before the injury, but since then, he's had problems. I think as a young player he deserves some benefit of the doubt. That injury was a real downer--not just a twisted ankle, you know."

Unfair... I didn't see him playing good defense before the injury nor did he show strength. His offense looks pretty good so hopefully he'll find a position he can defend - so far that looks iffy.


"You're kidding, right? I think you might have a point with Jake and Casey, but Shawn Marion is clearly better than Posey, Terry and Maggette."

I agree he's better than Terry but I'm sure that you'd find arguments favoring Posey or Maggette over Marion from followers of their teams. My point is that Marion was a good choice, but not outstanding. Interestingly, the Suns were projecting him as a SG at draft time then they traded for Penny and that idea was dropped.

As far as Big Jake was concerned - yes, he was only a #25 pick but the Suns expended considerable effort to get him - perhaps they even indulged in some trickery.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree he's better than Terry but I'm sure that you'd find arguments favoring Posey or Maggette over Marion from followers of their teams. My point is that Marion was a good choice, but not outstanding. Interestingly, the Suns were projecting him as a SG at draft time then they traded for Penny and that idea was dropped.

As you know, Shawn Marion is consistently referred to as one of the best small forwards in the league--Posey and Maggette have never been referred to as such.

 

[F-Dog]

When you consider all the resources they have at their disposal to evaluate the prospects they should do vastly better than some one with a list of mock drafts and a dart board but they don't seem to.

Plausable but the logic is flawed. You might as well say "any financial analyst who picks stocks for a living should vastly outperform the S&P 500".

Maybe Barbosa would have been picked higher but after watching him for a year I wouldn't rate his as worth more that a #29 pick. In fact I think M. Daniels was available when we picked and I'd prefer him.

We're talking about the same Barbosa that other teams passed on because he wouldn't be ready to contribute this year, right? The one who made the Suns look so much better than they looked with Howard Eisley at point?

After watching both players, there's no way I would take Daniels. Daniels has a nice in-between and post-up game, but he's less of a point guard than Barbosa, and he's a lousy 3-pt shooter. Neither player is a great defender yet, but Barbosa has far less experience and better physical tools--there's no question which one has more upside.

Daniels can be effective in Dallas because they go small and invert their offense, but the Suns don't have the personnel (or let's hope, the inclination) to do that. Give Daniels a few weeks of jacking up bricks from the perimeter in a Suns uni, and you'd be ready to pronounce him DOA.

I sure hope the Suns don't one over on the rest of the league like they did with Zarko last year - he's a typical bad Suns pick, understrength with a bit of flash on offense.
Pretty much what the scouting report said, as a matter of fact - that and little D.

From what little I saw when he was healthy, he didn't look "bad" to me--he looked like a tremendous athlete who could rebound, and who could get the ball from his hand into the basket in a half-court set as easily as anybody on the Suns. Not every player on a successful NBA team has to be incredibly strong or a world-class defender.

Obviously, after Fortson he looked awful, but I don't see why that would have anything to do with the wisdom of picking him in the first place.

Really, except for Amare, the Suns haven't been that great at drafting since Percudani died. Marion is fine but throwing darts at that pick, just based on the guys rated about the same and we'd have gotten him, Posey, Jason Terry or Maggette. Big Jake was a gamble that didn't pay off. Casey was certainly far from a stellar pick - and a bit of a reach at the time.

Wow, plenty of garbage in this paragraph.

"Except for Amare?"

Terry is a player without a position, and neither Maggette nor Posey is with the team that originally drafted him--perhaps because neither of them was any good until halfway through last season. Hey, I guess the Suns should have traded down for Kirilenko, right?

Big Jake was a gamble--just like any other center prospect. Nobody can project centers with any degree of accuracy. He certainly turned out better than any center taken after him (besides Little Jake, of course).

Casey Jacobsen--who knows? I mean, imagine what people were saying about James Posey at the same point in Posey's career...



I understand that you're already sick of rooting for a last-place team (and that it's tough to attack brand-new owners), but come on--the last place to go after the Suns is in the draft room. You were on better ground criticizing their coaching.

 

[Errntknght]

>>Plausable but the logic is flawed. You might as well say "any financial analyst who picks stocks for a living should vastly outperform the S&P 500".<<

There's a flaw in your logic as well - the S&P 500 is an average of real prices while the mock drafts are media products put together by people we generally hold in very low esteem for their basketball knowledge. (Not to mention the fact that financial analysts have a built in conflict of interest - they profit from the buy & sell action they generate not from their customers financial well-being. Imagine how much worse BBall GMs would do if their income was tied to their trading volume.)

>>Daniels can be effective in Dallas because they go small and invert their offense, but the Suns don't have the personnel (or let's hope, the inclination) to do that. Give Daniels a few weeks of jacking up bricks from the perimeter in a Suns uni, and you'd be ready to pronounce him DOA.<<

Precisely what I like about Daniels is that he slashes to the basket and posts up instead of jacking up perimeter shots. I would expect him to do well in a high post offense, which is what I think the Suns should play with the current collection of players. His D looks quite solid to me compared to Barbosa - Leandro probably gets more steals though Daniels is pretty 'light-fingered' as well. True he's not a PG but Barbosa isn't either - he made little progress at operating the offense despite being our nominal starting PG most of the season. (Eisley ran the halfcourt offense better than Barbosa - his problem was that he called his own number too often.)


>>the last place to go after the Suns is in the draft room. You were on better ground criticizing their coaching.<<

I agree somewhat with this... no way did I mean to imply that the Suns were as bad at drafting as they are at hiring head coaches. I think they're about average at drafting while they're horrible at picking coaches.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

What teams are better at drafting then? I would say they are top 5 at least since like 1996.


By saying they are average, you are implying about 14 teams have a better draft history than the Suns, which I think is far from the truth.

 

[slinslin]

Not sure if anyone hast posted it already but Ramos said in an interview on hoopshype.com that he is 7'4 280lbs right now.