Bryant salary numbers

[coloradosun]

I not the one who started the after tax effect of signing with the Suns.

 

[Yuma]

Geez, what is this--pull bad deals out of hat day? There's no way that Kobe Bryant does a 1-year deal with anybody!

It's possible that tomorrow I'll win the lottery--doesn't mean it'll happen...

No way Kidd was going to sign a short term deal with us, but he did. Then he signed a long term deal LATER when it suited him according to the CBA! Kobe will do what he wants to do! If he wants to sign a 1 year deal just to get on a team he wants to be on, is that too far fetched? Tell Karl Malone that!

Chap, you COULD win the lottery tomorrow. So could Mark Cuban!

 

[elindholm]

No way Kidd was going to sign a short term deal with us, but he did. Then he signed a long term deal LATER when it suited him according to the CBA!

Are you even reading what you're writing? Kidd never signed a contract with the Suns.

Maybe you mean Manning instead of Kidd. The CBA was changed specifically to avoid the kind of salary-cap circumvention that the Suns used with Manning. It's not possible anymore.

If he wants to sign a 1 year deal just to get on a team he wants to be on, is that too far fetched? Tell Karl Malone that!

I'm sure you don't even believe this. You're just being stubborn. Malone was at the end of his career, had made all of his money, and was taking a pay cut for a chance to win one title. Their cases aren't similar at all.

 

[Yuma]

No way Kidd was going to sign a short term deal with us, but he did. Then he signed a long term deal LATER when it suited him according to the CBA!

Are you even reading what you're writing? Kidd never signed a contract with the Suns.

PHOENIX, May 26 B Phoenix Suns All-Star guard Jason Kidd has signed a one-year contract extension with the club. The option year, of Kidd's election, could keep him a Sun through the 2003-04 season.
Kidd has been with the Suns since Dec. 26, 1996, when he was acquired from Dallas with Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer in exchange for Sam Cassell, Michael Finley, A.C. Green and a second round draft pick.

Since joining the Suns, he has been a two-time All-Star, an All-NBA First Team selection, a two-time NBA All-Defensive pick and was the starter on Team USA at the Tournament of Americas last summer. Phoenix has a 150-82 (.647) record with Kidd in the lineup.

Currently tied for fourth on the all-time NBA assists-per-game list with 9.3, Kidd with the NBA assists title the past two seasons and also paced all NBA guards in rebounding in each of the past two seasons. He has 31 career triple-doubles (plus one playoff triple-double), the most among active players and sixth all time.

This season, Kidd averaged 14.3 points, 10.1 assists and a career-high 7.2 rebounds, along with 2.0 steals and five triple-doubles. Over his six-year NBA career, he averaged 13.6 points, 9.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds.

Over the summer, Kidd will participate with Team USA in the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia, with the team beginning preparation in August.


Maybe you mean Manning instead of Kidd. The CBA was changed specifically to avoid the kind of salary-cap circumvention that the Suns used with Manning. It's not possible anymore.

No, actually, I meant kidd. The reasoning he only extended a year with us, was to get to the next level of years/money in the CBA. He did sign with us as noted above! Yes I read what I am writing!

If he wants to sign a 1 year deal just to get on a team he wants to be on, is that too far fetched? Tell Karl Malone that!

I'm sure you don't even believe this. You're just being stubborn. Malone was at the end of his career, had made all of his money, and was taking a pay cut for a chance to win one title. Their cases aren't similar at all.

You are right. Malone DIDN'T have to play with a guy he openly fueded with through the media. Shaq reasonably might not be able to be traded from LA. Kobe may want to leave in that case to get away from Shaq. I have even heard this on the radio today. It's not my idea, I am just reporting this!

 

[elindholm]

An extension isn't the same thing as a new contract. You were talking about Bryant taking a small deal and then re-upping for a big raise. That isn't possible with a one-year extension.

Also, if Bryant signed with Dallas for the MLE, it would take three years (I think; it could be two) before he had Bird rights with them -- meaning that his raise in a new contract before then would once again be limited.

Regarding your Malone argument, the question isn't whether Bryant will leave Los Angeles. From the beginning, you've equated "leaving Los Angeles" with "going to Dallas." That's why nothing you've said has made any sense.

 

[Yuma]

An extension isn't the same thing as a new contract. You were talking about Bryant taking a small deal and then re-upping for a big raise. That isn't possible with an extension.

Before we traded Kidd, the Suns signed him to a 1 year extension, with the intent of signing him to a deal similar to what he got in NJ. Do you want me to find those articles that quote Kidd and Colangelo and make you look even sillier? Evidently it IS possible with an extension!

 

[slinslin]

Yuma you are wrong and the Kidd extension has absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying earlier.

 

[Yuma]

An extension isn't the same thing as a new contract. You were talking about Bryant taking a small deal and then re-upping for a big raise. That isn't possible with a one-year extension.

Also, if Bryant signed with Dallas for the MLE, it would take three years (I think; it could be two) before he had Bird rights with them -- meaning that his raise in a new contract before then would once again be limited.

Regarding your Malone argument, the question isn't whether Bryant will leave Los Angeles. From the beginning, you've equated "leaving Los Angeles" with "going to Dallas." That's why nothing you've said has made any sense.

OK, for like the 24th time in 24 hours, I said Kobe is NOT likely to leave LA! The only scenario is if LA can't move Shaq. I have NOT equated "leaving Los Angeles" with "going to Dallas!"

Let me put it ANOTHER way, Dallas would be the LAST place Buss, Lakers, and LA fans would want Kobe to go! Thus the irony and delight of kicking sand in the Lakers face if their coveted player went to their hated enemy! NOT that IT IS going to happen, but that it would be funny as hell, NO MATTER HOW IMPROBABLE, if it could/would/should happen! Comprende?

You are the one that keeps saying it CAN'T happen. I am just pointing out that logically, it can! Thus you guys keep getting stuck between probable/possible.

A long time ago, I believe it was Capologist that ran me through the wringer on probable/possible. That was another board, a long time ago.

 

[Yuma]

Yuma you are wrong and the Kidd extension has absolutely nothing to do with what you were saying earlier.

I know it's hard to keep up, but Elindholm said Kidd NEVER signed with us. He was wrong, but won't admit it!

Exactly what am I wrong about? Slin, you are wrong!

 

[elindholm]

I know it's hard to keep up, but Elindholm said Kidd NEVER signed with us. He was wrong, but won't admit it!

Okay, sure. If by "contract" you meant "contract or extension," then it was incorrect of me to say that it didn't happen. I thought you meant "new (i.e. free-agent) contract," since that's what we've been discussing with Bryant. But if in fact you were talking about something irrelevant -- which, I confess, I should have suspected was a strong possibility -- then yes, I was wrong.

 

[Yuma]

Look, basically both you guys, Slin and Elindholm have been just saying "you are wrong" to everything I post. Then I find quotes, articles, etc., that support what I say. The best both of you can come up with is, "that's wrong."
Yet you guys don't post ANYTHING that supports why I am wrong aside from your vehement ideas. No quotes, no articles, nothing! So far I think I am the one that's had more supporting information. I am not asking you guys to take my word for it, I SHOW you my supporting documents.

 

[Yuma]

I know it's hard to keep up, but Elindholm said Kidd NEVER signed with us. He was wrong, but won't admit it!

Okay, sure. If by "contract" you meant "contract or extension," then it was incorrect of me to say that it didn't happen. I thought you meant "new (i.e. free-agent) contract," since that's what we've been discussing with Bryant. But if in fact you were talking about something irrelevant -- which, I confess, I should have suspected was a strong possibility -- then yes, I was wrong.

Business Law 101, an extension IS a new contract legally. The terms have changed from the original contract. I thought everyone knew this? Besides, when a guy reups with his team, they always say extension.

You know, when I prove you and Slin incorrect on a point, it's always irrelevant, wrong, etc. You guys act like you are the infallible word on the NBA on this board.

I explained my point again previously and I notice you guys ignore it and try and pick small parts out of context to try and make it "irrelevant." A classic manuever!

 

[Chaplin]

Business Law 101, an extension IS a new contract legally. The terms have changed from the original contract. I thought everyone knew this? Besides, when a guy reups with his team, they always say extension.

You know, when I prove you and Slin incorrect on a point, it's always irrelevant, wrong, etc. You guys act like you are the infallible word on the NBA on this board.

I explained my point again previously and I notice you guys ignore it and try and pick small parts out of context to try and make it "irrelevant." A classic manuever!

No no no no no!

In the NBA, an extension and a new contract are not the same!

Let's say I'm a businessman and I'm employed on a contractual basis with Company B. I make 75k a year for 4 years. Now, I can sign an extension at 80k for 4 more years (because that is the maximum allowed), OR I can get out of that contract and negotiate a contract at 85k for 5 years (or more, as the case may be)--how is that the same?

 

[JCSunsfan]

No no no no no!

In the NBA, an extension and a new contract are not the same!

Let's say I'm a businessman and I'm employed on a contractual basis with Company B. I make 75k a year for 4 years. Now, I can sign an extension at 80k for 4 more years (because that is the maximum allowed), OR I can get out of that contract and negotiate a contract at 85k for 5 years (or more, as the case may be)--how is that the same?

Right. In fact, in the NBA the provision for an extension has to be written into the original contract. An extension was an optional provision for Kidd as part of the orginal contract terms.

 

[elindholm]

Yet you guys don't post ANYTHING that supports why I am wrong aside from your vehement ideas. No quotes, no articles, nothing!

You clearly aren't paying attention. I've referred you to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, and slinslin has showed you how to make the calculations yourself.

I concede the contract/extension point. I thought you meant something else, but based on what you now say you meant, I was incorrect to say that it didn't happen.

 

[Chaplin]

Yet you guys don't post ANYTHING that supports why I am wrong aside from your vehement ideas. No quotes, no articles, nothing!

You clearly aren't paying attention. I've referred you to Larry Coon's CBA FAQ, and slinslin has showed you how to make the calculations yourself.

I concede the contract/extension point. I thought you meant something else, but based on what you now say you meant, I was incorrect to say that it didn't happen.

Do you ALSO concede that Pauly Shore is a bad actor? It matters about as much as the extension point does in the overall arguement.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Pauly's and actor?

 

[Joe Mama]

Let me get this straight, if Kobe would have bought his wife the 4M ring in Phoenix (6% sales tax) instead of LA (8% sales tax)he would have saved $80,000. Why didn't he wait until after July 15, 2004 to make up.

Colorado, even though letter slin didn't appreciate this I thought it was very funny.

I really have nothing to base this on, but I doubt money will be the ultimate factor in Kobe Bryant's decision. I think he is going to wait until he gets a better look at what the Lakers will look like before he signs anywhere. Unfortunately that means discussions like this one could drag on for some time. Let's just try not to kill each other in the meantime.

Joe

 

[Chaplin]

Colorado, even though letter slin didn't appreciate this I thought it was very funny.

I really have nothing to base this on, but I doubt money will be the ultimate factor in Kobe Bryant's decision. I think he is going to wait until he gets a better look at what the Lakers will look like before he signs anywhere. Unfortunately that means discussions like this one could drag on for some time. Let's just try not to kill each other in the meantime.

Joe

That's a very good point, but then again, the money will not vary--it's not like Steve Nash who will probably get various different amounts of money thrown at him, Kobe will get the max offered by all the teams with cap space, unless of course a team like Atlanta doesn't even bother.

To me, it's about two things: comfortability and his role on the team, the latter of which IMO is the the reason he WON'T sign with the Spurs.

 

[Yuma]

Well, I apologize for the big lettering on my original post. I saw Ouchie use it and I thought it was hillarious when he did it! I thought I'd try it. I hit the post button and had to log of my computer so I didn't see it until the next day.

I have read what you guys have posted and understand what you are saying. Note the small paragraphs. Note the lessening of big lettering. Also note the use of smileys has been tamed down.

However, one thing bugs me. When someone that posts a question or a thought on the board is told, "We have talked about this in other threads a million times already." Well that's rude to the people who post a lot less and cannot read EVERY thread on the board. I see it being done to new posters a lot. That's not right in my opinion.

Also, I will deliniate the humorous parts of my posts from the factual parts, when I remember, so you guys won't have to argue the funny part isn't factual! Or at least the attempted funny part!

 

[Yuma]

Right. In fact, in the NBA the provision for an extension has to be written into the original contract. An extension was an optional provision for Kidd as part of the orginal contract terms.

No according to Larry Coon FAQ, options and extensions ARE different:

Extension part of Faq:

A six or seven year contract can be extended when at least four years have passed since the signing of the contract. A four or five year contract can be extended when at least three years have passed since the signing of the contract. Contracts for fewer than four seasons may not be extended. A contract which has already been extended can be extended again after three years.

The salary in the first year of the extension is limited to 112.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. However, it also can't exceed the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent. The maximum a player can receive as a free agent is the defined maximum salary (see question number 9 ) or 105% of his previous salary (see question number 10 ), whichever is greater.

This poses an interesting problem -- if an extension takes effect three years from now, how do they set the salary if the maximum salary (and therefore the maximum amount for the extension) won't be known for three years? What they do is write the extension for the maximum 12.5% (assuming the team agrees to give the player that much). Then when the extension takes effect, and the maximum salary for that season is known, the extension is amended if necessary.

An example is in order. Shaquille O'Neal's contract was extended prior to the 2000-01 season. His original contract ran through the 02-03 season, in which he made $23,571,429.20. The first year of his extension, 03-04, was originally written for 112.5% of this amount, or $26,517,857.85. As a 10+ year veteran, O'Neal's salary can't exceed 105% of $23,571,429.20, or the 03-04 maximum salary for a 10+ year veteran (which turned out to be $15,344,000), whichever is greater. That means O'Neal's 03-04 salary could not exceed 105% of $23,571,429.20, or $24,750,000.66 (using 105% of his previous salary, since that is the greater of the two). O'Neal's extension was therefore amended downward to the maximum ($24,750,000.66) once the 03-04 maximum salary was determined.

Raises in each year of the extension are limited to 12.5% of the salary in the last year of the existing contract. For example, since O'Neal will earn $23,571,429.20 in 02-03, he can receive a raise of $2,946,428.65 in each year of the extension. If the salary in the first year of the extension is amended downward as described above, then the salary in the remaining years of the extension are amended at the same time, if necessary.

None of this applies to rookie "scale" contracts signed by first round draft picks. These contracts may be extended from August 1 to October 31 of the player's fourth (option) season. The salary in the first year of the extension is limited only by the maximum salary, and raises are limited to 12.5% of the salary in the first season of the extension. Rookie "scale" contracts cannot be extended unless the team picks up the player's option for the fourth season.

Option part:

An option clause allows a contract to be extended for one additional season after the date it is scheduled to end. For example, a six-year contract with an option for the seventh year means that if the option is exercised, the contract extends through the seventh season, but if the option is not exercised, the contract ends after the sixth season and the player becomes a free agent. Options must be exercised by the July 1 that precedes the option year. Once exercised, an option cannot be revoked (for example, a player cannot invoke an option on June 20th and change his mind on June 25th).

There are various types of options:

Team Options give the team the right to invoke the option year. There can be only one option year, and the option year can't be for a lower salary than the previous season.


Player Options give the player the right to invoke the option year. There can be only one option year, and the option year can't be for a lower salary than the previous season.


Player Early Termination Options (ETO's) give the player the right to terminate the contract early. An ETO can't occur prior to the end of the fifth season of the contract (so the contract must be for six or seven seasons), and may be made contingent on player or team performance benchmarks.
Player options were previously used as a way to give the player more money. A long-term deal was agreed upon with a player option after the player obtained Larry Bird rights. The player invoked the option, became a free agent, and then the team & player signed a new contract for more money using the Bird exception. However, since the current CBA prevents ETO's before the end of the fifth year or more than one option year, the usefulness of this tool is now very limited.
Rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks contain a team option for the fourth season.

Here's a summary of the differences between an option and an ETO:

Options can occur only when one season remains on the contract, while ETO's can occur when two seasons remain if the contract is for seven seasons.


Options can be included in any multiyear contract, but ETO's are allowed only with six or seven year contracts.


ETO's can be based on performance benchmarks, but options can't.


Only a player can be given an ETO, but an option can be given to the player or to the team.


Option years may not have a lower salary than the previous season. ETO's have no such restriction.


The article clearly stated Kidd was extended.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I still dont see where that is relevent.

You were saying a contract and an extension are the same thing. In the NBA they are not. Extensions and new contracts have a different set of rules.

 

[George O'Brien]

I still dont see where that is relevent.

You were saying a contract and an extension are the same thing. In the NBA they are not. Extensions and new contracts have a different set of rules.

The reason is timing. An extension is usually done at least a year or two prior to the end of the contract. The so called "Early Bird" extension is the first time a player can be signed to an extension. I'm not sure how it works with veterans, but with rookies it is a year before the player is elibilbe to become a restricted free agent. The extension does not effect the original contract, but ensures the player will not become a restricted free agent.

Once the original contract is over, the parties start fresh except for the team's Bird rights that gives the team the right to re-sign the player above the cap (under all those weird rules about percentage of the cap and amount over the contract, etc.) In NBA terminology, it is not an extension but simply a new contract.

 

[coloradosun]

Colorado, even though letter slin didn't appreciate this I thought it was very funny.

I really have nothing to base this on, but I doubt money will be the ultimate factor in Kobe Bryant's decision. I think he is going to wait until he gets a better look at what the Lakers will look like before he signs anywhere. Unfortunately that means discussions like this one could drag on for some time. Let's just try not to kill each other in the meantime.

Joe

I realize that slinslin is trying his best to convince everyone that Kobe will commit to Phoenix. I do think money may play a role but it is in relation to his personal matters. His wife was put through hell, I think that if they are going to stay together he is going to accomodate her. If they are going to eventually split up then it will cost him a lot, so money may have a roll in his decision. This case in Colorado has cost him a lot, not only in legal fees, private jets back and forth but also in endorsements. The latter he may not make up for several years, a long term contract takes the uncertainty out of some those loses.