Bucks fans opinions on Brandon Knight

[sunsfan88]

Much like how Kings fans loved IT's departurue from Sacramento and complained about his hero ball/iso/selifshness etc, vast majority of Bucks fans are loving Knight's departure from Milwaukke as well. They also think he will cost quite a bit this summer and is not worth it.

Here's some of the posts from their trade thread (the title itself made me cringe):

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373595#start_here

I can't believe we're not paying Knight and acquired 3 rookie contracts with all the restricted leverage in the process. I like the Investment Banker thought process. Let someone else pay up for the undersized, yet productive 2 guard and acquire 3 quality, yet unproven assets in return.

Stunned is a great word. This is truly a 180 degree turn from the front office dealings of the last 10 years.

Anyone think this is an odd trade for PHX? I don't get their love affair with having a bunch of scoring point guards.

Maybe Bledsoe is a better passer than I know.

Man I LOVE this deal for Milwaukee. I actually like MCW and have always desired Ennis to be a Buck.

Plus no paying Knight... I think this is a really great deal for the Bucks.

Also we got rid of Shaqn a fools lifetime achiever in Knight lol.

I can't believe anyone dislikes this trade. We just avoided Brandon Knight as our point guard of the future. Who gives a **** what we got back?

If mcw can pass i like him better than knight already. Still not a fan.. Hope he proves me wrong but hey the bucks aren't paying knight this summer

Even if MCW is poop, Plumlee and Ennis are two assets worth forfeiting the rights to overpay Brandon Knight in the offseason.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Ennis ends up the best player in this deal.

I also specifically asked Bucks fans in a separate thread for their thoughts on Knight and here it is:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373651#start_here
I know fans aren't ever objective but these are people who watched him every game so says something. Now Knight might be different playing SG for us as opposed to PG like he did for the Bucks but still, I wonder if a player with many of the same flaws as IT/Goran/Bledsoe in terms of wanting the ball, making teammates worse, terrible passer etc will be worth paying top $$ for in the summer.

On the plus side, we got an upgrade defensively.

If this was a trade without the LAL pick then I would be neutral on it or maybe even liked it but the fact that we got yet another undersized 2 guard who is going to be a free agent while giving up the LAL pick is just...eh.

Based on the comments from Bucks fans, looks like Kidd wasn't even planning on matching any offers for Knight in the summer so we could have maybe got him for free.

Oh well.

 

[sunsfan88]

For those who love advanced stats and such (you know who you are):

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Worst FG% by a large margin.

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Oddly, the Bucks — perhaps the NBA’s most surprising success story this season — played better as a team when Knight was on the bench this season, according Basketball Reference’s on-off data. With Knight off the court, Milwaukee scored at a rate of 107.7 points per 100 possessions, up from 103.2 with him on the court. The team’s defense also improved with Knight off the court, as it allowed 103.5 points per 100 possessions with Knight on the court and 99.3 with him off of it.

^Posted by a Bucks fan from RealGM.

Nearly every player on the Bucks roster shot the ball better when Knight was actually on the bench.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Speaking of Advanced Stats...pick your player

Player A

True Shooting Percentage: .556%
Player Efficiency: 18.5
Assist %: 28.2
Rebound %: 7.5
Steal %: 2.5
Turnover %: 16.7
Assist to Turnover %: +11.5%
Win Shares: 4.4
Offensive Box +/-: +2.3
Defensive Box +/-:: 0.00

Player B

True Shooting Percentage: .573%
Player Efficiency: 16.6
Assist %: 19.5
Rebound%: 5.9
Steal %: 1.4
Turnover % 13.4
Assist to Turnover %: 6.1%
Win Shares: 4.0
Offensive Box +/-: +2.2
Defensive Box +/-: -1.5

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Player A - Player B's Stats

Player A

True Shooting Percentage: -0.017
Player Efficiency: +1.9
Assist %: +8.7
Rebound %: +2.6
Steal %: +1.1
Turnover %: +3.3
Assist to Turnover %: +4.4
Win Shares: +0.4
Offensive Box +/-: +0.1
Defensive Box +/-: +1.5

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I know you are all shocked but player A is Brandon Knight and player B is Saint Goran.

 

[sunsfan88]

Speaking of Advanced Stats...pick your player

Player A

True Shooting Percentage: .556%
Player Efficiency: 18.5
Assist %: 28.2
Rebound %: 7.5
Steal %: 2.5
Turnover %: 16.7
Assist to Turnover %: +11.5%
Win Shares: 4.4
Offensive Box +/-: +2.3
Defensive Box +/-:: 0.00

Player B

True Shooting Percentage: .573%
Player Efficiency: 16.6
Assist %: 19.5
Rebound%: 5.9
Steal %: 1.4
Turnover % 13.4
Assist to Turnover %: 6.1%
Win Shares: 4.0
Offensive Box +/-: +2.2
Defensive Box +/-: -1.5

I know Knight's having a better year than Dragic so I'm gonna guess Player B is Knight since he has a better true shooting % but then Player A has better Player Efficiency so perhaps that is Knight?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I know Knight's having a better year than Dragic so I'm gonna guess Player B is Knight since he has a better true shooting % but then Player A has better Player Efficiency so perhaps that is Knight?

Dragic is slightly better in true shooting % and has a lower turnover rate but a much worse assist rate.

The point was stats can tell you anything. In my opinion, Saint Goran is a better player than Knight. I don't need stats to tell me that.

However, he is 5 years older so he should be better.

It's close already...it is completely conceivable that Knight continues to improve as he has done every year and we would have happily made this trade straight up...even if the money is the same.

 

[hcsilla]

How about taking Dragic's stats from last season when he didn't have to play off the ball and to defend SF's?

Speaking of Advanced Stats...pick your player

Player A

True Shooting Percentage: .556%
Player Efficiency: 18.5
Assist %: 28.2
Rebound %: 7.5
Steal %: 2.5
Turnover %: 16.7
Assist to Turnover %: +11.5%
Win Shares: 4.4
Offensive Box +/-: +2.3
Defensive Box +/-:: 0.00

Player B

True Shooting Percentage: .573%
Player Efficiency: 16.6
Assist %: 19.5
Rebound%: 5.9
Steal %: 1.4
Turnover % 13.4
Assist to Turnover %: 6.1%
Win Shares: 4.0
Offensive Box +/-: +2.2
Defensive Box +/-: -1.5

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How about taking Dragic's stats from last season when he didn't have to play off the ball and to defend SF's?

Sure, I will do the same exercise with Saint Goran's best season and see how much better he is than the guy we got who is 5 years younger.

 

[hcsilla]

The problem is we didn't trade Dragic for Knight.

We did trade a (very) likely lottery pick and two mid-late 1st rounder worthy players for a combo G with average efficiency who we could have simply signed this summer without giving up anything.

I honestly think that this is one of the worst trades in Suns' history.

 

[slinslin]

The problem is we didn't trade Dragic for Knight.

We did trade a (very) likely lottery pick and two mid-late 1st rounder worthy players for a combo G with average efficiency who we could have simply signed this summer without giving up anything.

I honestly think that this is one of the worst trades in Suns' history.

1. His efficiency this season is way above average.
2. You seem to think signing him is a one-way street. Why would Knight sign with us if he had free choice? You think we would be his only option especially when we have a starting PG already?

Yes we paid a high price for Knight and he definitely needs to keep improving to justify that and his next contract.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Saint Goran 2013

True Shooting Percentage: .604%
Player Efficiency: 21.4
Assist %: 28.1
Rebound %: 5.2
Steal %: 2.0
Turnover %: 14.3
Assist to Turnover %: +13.8%
Win Shares: 4.9
Offensive Box +/-: +3.9
Defensive Box +/-: -1.1

Obviously Saint Goran's 3rd team all NBA season was great. However....here were his stats from the year before with us:

True Shooting Percentage: .540%
Player Efficiency: 17.5
Assist %: 35.7
Rebound %: 5.2
Steal %: 2.5
Turnover %: 16.8
Assist to Turnover %: +18.7%
Win Shares: 2.6
Offensive Box +/-: +2.6
Defensive Box +/-: -1.2

His age 26 season with us almost mirrors his career averages and is MUCH closer to this season and he didn't play SF.

So what changed between 2012, 2013, and 2014?

Hmm...

Channing Frye?

Saint Goran was at his best when he has a wide open floor for him to run around in at a high pace. Will we ever see the 2013 Saint Goran again? No idea. The odds aren't great on outlier seasons.

 

[hcsilla]

I guess this might be the key why he was such a hot prospect in the eyes of the Suns' management:

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And this:

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Now I get it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Jamal Crawford tweeted that Wade's all star spot ought to go to Knight. Also, Wade tweeted that if it were up to him it would go to Knight as he deserved to be in the all star game. The guy is 23 years old and there's no arguing that he sometimes plays like it. He's going to frustrate and wow us but my biggest concern is we may have to make a financial commitment to him before we're sure we can really count on him. But the guy clearly has talent.

Steve

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The problem is we didn't trade Dragic for Knight.

We did trade a (very) likely lottery pick and two mid-late 1st rounder worthy players for a combo G with average efficiency who we could have simply signed this summer without giving up anything.

I honestly think that this is one of the worst trades in Suns' history.

We traded a pick that will likely fall between 5 and 15, Luis Scola, and the #18 pick in the draft for the #8 pick in the draft that is 23 and is already enjoying success in the NBA.

Bird in the hand sort of thing. Yes I agree losing the Laker's pick sucks. I also remember how this worked out for us with the Chicago pick. By the time we actually got it it was a mid 1st rounder.

 

[hcsilla]

1. His efficiency this season is way above average.
2. You seem to think signing him is a one-way street. Why would Knight sign with us if he had free choice? You think we would be his only option especially when we have a starting PG already?

Yes we paid a high price for Knight and he definitely needs to keep improving to justify that and his next contract.

1. Based on what? His TS is 55% which is exactly the league average.

2. You think that Knight would have had a lot of suitors this summer? Could you please name a few of them?
You think that he might not have preferred the Suns because we have a starting PG already?
But now he is happy because he got traded to the Suns that have a starting PG already....
Brilliant.

Fortunately, we never had a problem before having too much PG's on the roster....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And I agree I am looking at these moves as a large package. Individually we didn't get what Saint Goran was worth but despite his halo, he pretty much ruined any chance we would get fair value.

However, it seems pretty clear that the organization wants a combo guard at the 2. Right or wrong, they are staying the course.

 

[hcsilla]

Yes I agree losing the Laker's pick sucks.

Very much.

The Suns for years have the problem not being bad enough to insert enough elite talent into the roster.

Miraculously we get a good lottery pick but quickly throw away because we are in such a hurry to get a scoring combo guard (attached with a sizeable contract very soon) who probably leads us nowhere but at the same time will block us from getting the chance to break-out of mediocrity.

That way we ensure that we don't have to bother with assets like the Lakers pick in the next few years at least. That's a good thing, I guess.

 

[hcsilla]

And I agree I am looking at these moves as a large package. Individually we didn't get what Saint Goran was worth but despite his halo, he pretty much ruined any chance we would get fair value.

I have no problem with the Dragic-trade.

Given his bad (and very hostile) timing for the coming-out, the return we got for him is decent. (Even if the IT-signing wasn't really a success (but at least we got a #20-25 1st rounder for him), if Dragic will get a max. contract this summer, there is no way I would have kept him for that price, so if that's how his story will turn-out to, I don't really consider him as a loss. Actually maybe even the opposite).

But why in the hell we had to trade this much for Knight?

This is flat-out stupid. I do hope that Knight will prove me wrong, but I'm afraid he won't.

 

[Azlen]

Very much.

The Suns for years have the problem not being bad enough to insert enough elite talent into the roster.

Miraculously we get a good lottery pick but quickly throw away because we are in such a hurry to get a scoring combo guard (attached with a sizeable contract very soon) who probably leads us nowhere but at the same time will block us from getting the chance to break-out of mediocrity.

That way we ensure that we don't have to bother with assets like the Lakers pick in the next few years at least. That's a good thing, I guess.

We don't know where that pick is going to be yet. It's too early to call it a good lottery pick. Chances are it will be decent but that isn't a lock.

 

[KloD]

But why in the hell we had to trade this much for Knight?

This is flat-out stupid. I do hope that Knight will prove me wrong, but I'm afraid he won't.

The Lakers pic isn't anything until it's actually turned over. Will the 6th through 10th kids drafted next summer be better than Knight? Doubtful. Who knows what product the Lakers will put out next season? The one thing I do agree with Lakers fans on is how little time the team has spent uncompetitive. It's very probable they're able to increase their draft position after this year. The Suns took a proven product over a what if. That's smart business, not flat-out stupid decision making. That and they acquired 2 potential lottery picks (one with zero protection) from Miami in the Dragic deal.

All this crying on the board of late. The prima donna enablers painting Dragic as a victim.. just a bunch of silly illogical nonsense. The Suns plan may not be to hold onto Knight. They may see him as a trade piece in a sign and trade this summer since he's restricted. Fact is, we don't know what they're thinking.

Just to add, we don't know that their experiment with multiple guards failed as some are claiming. We only know that they didn't have the right team first guys on the roster to pull it off. It failed due to personalities and prima donna attitudes.

Last, with the numbers the Suns shipped out. This was likely to clean house of negative personalities in the locker room more than anything else. They got the best deals they could and managed to shed all the crap with one fell swoop rather than let it continue through the rest of the season and into the next.

 

[BC867]

All this crying on the board of late. The prima donna enablers painting Dragic as a victim.. just a bunch of silly illogical nonsense. The Suns plan may not be to hold onto Knight. They may see him as a trade piece in a sign and trade this summer since he's restricted. Fact is, we don't know what they're thinking.

Just to add, we don't know that their experiment with multiple guards failed as some are claiming. We only know that they didn't have the right team first guys on the roster to pull it off. It failed due to personalities and prima donna attitudes.

Last, with the numbers the Suns shipped out. This was likely to clean house of negative personalities in the locker room more than anything else. They got the best deals they could and managed to shed all the crap with one fell swoop rather than let it continue through the rest of the season and into the next.

Are you presenting alibis for the Front Office . . . or explaining how they failed? Look at the results.

None of this happened to them. They made it happen. With their choices of roles on the team and the players to fill it. And the coaches who couldn't handle it.

Having to "clean house" of a large part of the roster reflects failures of management.

 

[KloD]

Are you presenting alibis for the Front Office . . . or explaining how they failed? Look at the results.

None of this happened to them. They made it happen. With their choices of roles on the team and the players to fill it. And the coaches who couldn't handle it.

Having to "clean house" of a large part of the roster reflects failures of management.

As usual, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about? I'm sure it's more of the same. Suns management sucks and is stupid. You have all the answers and would do a much better, if not perfect job at running the team. blah blah blah... You're not alone though. There's a few others here who share your complain about any and everything mentality.

You win. Go on and whine and bitch. Tell us over and over again how stupid management is. It''s rather fascinating and isn't boring at all. I can't wait until tomorrow's version!

 

[JCSunsfan]

As usual, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about? I'm sure it's more of the same. Suns management sucks and is stupid. You have all the answers and would do a much better, if not perfect job at running the team. blah blah blah... You're not alone though. There's a few others here who share your complain about any and everything mentality.

You win. Go on and whine and bitch. Tell us over and over again how stupid management is. It''s rather fascinating and isn't boring at all. I can't wait until tomorrow's version!

Ditto.

 

[sunsfan88]

I guess this might be the key why he was such a hot prospect in the eyes of the Suns' management:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0g6tlCUmO4



Now I get it.

The irony is in the player who is guarding Knight on this play.