Bucks @ Suns game thread 11-22-17

[Finito]

Yeah that was just ugly. They should of started every play by dumping down into Monroe. Thin Maker(my iPhone did that by itself and im gonna leave it cause that's exactly where I was going) couldn't hold him at all he's just not strong enough.

I'm officially done with Mike James he's god awful.

This was a game the Suns should of won by 15

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I'm to the point where I hope they just let Mike James go. I got tricked! I came away from Summer League thinking "this guy is everything I don't want on my basketball team; I desperately hope he doesn't end up playing a role on the Suns."

Then, for the first few games, he played like a different point guard. Moving the ball, with a smart shot selection and positive body language. It was just enough to make him seem like a pleasant surprise.

Now he's back to his bad habits, and he's every point guard I've never wanted for the Suns, only with less talent than most.

 

[SweetD]

Turnovers killed us on this games. Ullis and Bender threw the ball away at key points in the 4th and OT. I too would have like them to get it down low to Monroe, but I don't think this team is used to having a good low post scorer, so they kept missing the mis matches down low.

 

[leclerc]

I'd like to know Bender's thinking in wearing a mask.

It's the Fortson effect.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Why did Len not play? Josh Jackson is going to be a big disappointment. How can you take a player forth that can't shoot.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's the Fortson effect.

These thoughts were going through my mind as well.

I hope Bender is not backing down from the physicality of the game. The Suns need him to be more than a finesse player.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why did Len not play? Josh Jackson is going to be a big disappointment. How can you take a player forth that can't shoot.

As previously mentioned, perhaps the Suns are showcasing Monroe and/or Chandler for a trade.

Let's hope the Suns got the Jackson pick right. It's still way to early to judge but his shooting is indeed a question mark.

 

[Finito]

Bust or not Jackson was the right pick to make in my opinion.

All the top rookies outside Tatum and Lauri seem to be struggling

 

[Hoop Head]

Why did Len not play? Josh Jackson is going to be a big disappointment. How can you take a player forth that can't shoot.

Fultz was taken #1 and can't shoot, same for Ball at #2. Fultz's issues seem to be linked to injury though, once healthy he should look better. Jackson wasn't drafted because of his shooting, that will take some time to come around. He was drafted for his high motor and defensive game. Once he develops a consistent jumper then he'll be much better but he looked really good in preseason with the team and has shown flashes here and there on the court this year.

Is it really surprising that Len didn't play considering we have Chandler and Monroe available? They shouldn't see reduced minutes just so Len can make an appearance, especially since he signed the qualifying offer and will be leaving when the year is over, if not sooner in a trade. He's way too inconsistent to warrant seeing even limited time because even when he's on he doesn't bring more offensively than Monroe does or defensively than Chandler does.

 

[BC867]

Suns had the second worst record last season with Chandler. Could it have been much worse?

Mentoring is development. Building character and discipline as a foundation for the future. It is not about instant gratification.

The influence of a veteran cannot overcome a dysfunctional Front Office and inexperienced Head Coaches. The proof? We have a new Head Coach. Now if only we had a Managing General Partner and Front Office who don't depend upon gimmicks and extremes.

 

[Superbone]

I missed the game but my question is...

Did the crowd boo Bledsoe?

Yes, he was booed the entire game every time he touched the ball.

 

[devilalum]

During the last timeout of regulation all the Suns were really anxious, all standing and fidgeting but Booker was sitting on the bench by himself completely motionless.


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[elindholm]

Why did Len not play? Josh Jackson is going to be a big disappointment. How can you take a player forth that can't shoot.

What's more puzzling to me is how "everyone" said that Jackson was clearly a better prospect than Tatum. Tatum wasn't an option for the Suns, given how the draft played out, but I get the sense that most of this board would have passed on him even if he had been available. I didn't understand it then (I was high on Tatum all along) and I don't understand it now.

 

[Folster]

Josh Jackson is going to be a big disappointment. How can you take a player forth that can't shoot.

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A number of teams were trying move up to get Jackson, the Spurs being the most notable. It's rumored they offered LMA for him.

His offense is rough, particularly his shot, but his defensive potential is apparent.

 

[3rdside]

What's more puzzling to me is how "everyone" said that Jackson was clearly a better prospect than Tatum. Tatum wasn't an option for the Suns, given how the draft played out, but I get the sense that most of this board would have passed on him even if he had been available. I didn't understand it then (I was high on Tatum all along) and I don't understand it now.

I liked Tatum a lot and would have been happy with either but was leaning Jackson on the basis of his assist numbers - generally speaking a guy who can pass holds a lot of attraction for me.

But what I didn’t get from pre-draft measurements (which are not always correct I’ve come to realise), and videos, was his size; as draft express writes (which I’ve just seen):

“Jackson is more of a 3/2 than Tatum, who is a 3/4”

Not that it matters, but If I’d read that I may have thought twice about Jackson as undersized players will likely push the needle in the wrong direction for me, and looking at him on the suns he looks pretty puny and short (in length), whereas Tatum looks nice and long, something so important for nba success.

Either way, it’s way too soon to say he’s a bust but Tatum is definitely looking all-star legit.


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[elindholm]

as draft express writes (which I’ve just seen):

“Jackson is more of a 3/2 than Tatum, who is a 3/4”

Hmm, I'm not an expert of course, but Tatum looked like about as pure a SF as you can get. As for Jackson, I thought the buzz was that he could guard multiple positions -- not that there's that much difference between guarding a SF versus a SG -- so maybe that's where that comes from. In any case, it was clear that Jackson didn't have the bulk or footwork to be a PF on offense, so I guess if you were going to up-size one of them, it would have to be Tatum.

Either way, it’s way too soon to say he’s a bust but Tatum is definitely looking all-star legit.

I agree that it's too soon to call Jackson a bust. Similarly, if Tatum is already close to his ceiling, he won't ever make an All-Star team. But a big part of the narrative before the draft was that Jackson was "more athletic," and the conventional wisdom seems to be, if two players are comparable, go with the more athletic one. I expect that more seasoned talent evaluators don't fall for that trap. It's like the old saying of "you can't teach size," and I understand where it's coming from. But NBA basketball, as a team sport, in fact requires a very high skill level. Guys who are tall and who can run and jump don't necessarily project as good NBA players. There's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You judge people on this board more than anyone because you don't understand why people aren't happy tanking. If you want the team to tank so bad why don't you call Sarver and boycott the Suns because so long as fans are watching, attending games, and buying merchandise then they're going to continue to compete when they play. They weren't with Watson on board as coach and he was fired, virtually everyone was happy with that firing also. He would have helped the tank though so why aren't you longing for the days of him coaching the team and the Suns getting blown out by 40+ at home? Why not just become a fan of every other team in the NBA that way you could always root against the Suns? Or you could just simplify it and be a fan of the Lakers.

Some people like to be entertained by their favorite team. It'd be nice if they were able to compete for a title but that's unrealistic right now. That doesn't mean it's a first or last sort of situation where since we can't compete for a title we need to be the worst team in the league so we might be able to get a player who can help us win a title down the road.

I’ve spent years being entertained. I’d like a championship. You’re welcome to set your sights lower. I just don’t get why you all feel the need to tell US how to feel or how to be a fan. It’s ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As far as "tanking"...The suns are playing to win every night so I don't know why some are "unhappy" as you put it. .

Yeah this is the part that gets me. The suns have done nothing to tank this year. In fact, just the opposite by jettisoning a terrible coach and disgruntled player and acquiring a player that is making them better and STILL the “we want mediocrity!” crowd has to find a reason to get angry at tanking, which has occurred for HALF OF A SEASON last season and isn’t being done this year. And they want to bellow at those of us that seek improvement in a different manner than they want despite the fact we have ZERO control over it. I mean, it’s a bit laughable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah this is the part that gets me. The suns have done nothing to tank this year. In fact, just the opposite by jettisoning a terrible coach and disgruntled player and acquiring a player that is making them better and STILL the “we want mediocrity!” crowd has to find a reason to get angry at tanking, which has occurred for HALF OF A SEASON last season and isn’t being done this year. And they want to bellow at those of us that seek improvement in a different manner than they want despite the fact we have ZERO control over it. I mean, it’s a bit laughable.

What a bunch of meanies!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What a bunch of meanies!

Haha.

Happy Tanksgiving everyone!

 

[BC867]

Yeah this is the part that gets me. The suns have done nothing to tank this year. In fact, just the opposite by jettisoning a terrible coach and disgruntled player and acquiring a player that is making them better and STILL the “we want mediocrity!” crowd has to find a reason to get angry at tanking, which has occurred for HALF OF A SEASON last season and isn’t being done this year. And they want to bellow at those of us that seek improvement in a different manner than they want despite the fact we have ZERO control over it. I mean, it’s a bit laughable.

Speaking for myself, what I did not enjoy was poker's constant sarcastic comments and disappointment when the Suns won a game. It stopped being funny. It became downright depressing.

There are repercussions to expecting our young players to be losers in hopes of lucking out in the lottery some year, then turning to winners. What we'd gain by a super pick could be lost by the rest of the young players becoming disgruntled, whether by tanking as the only plan or putting together non-NBA calibre rosters until we luck out (if we ever would).

I expect the Front Office and Suns fans to cover ALL aspects of building a playoff threat rather than follow extremes. That's bush league. The job of GM is complex, especially when he has to get the Managing General Partner's approval each day to plan his job. Which is why Sarver has gone with inexperienced GM's. Because one who's been around would tell him to put it where the 'sun don't shine'.

Insecurity rolls downhill. So does losing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Speaking for myself, what I did not enjoy was poker's constant sarcastic comments and disappointment when the Suns won a game. It stopped being funny. It became downright depressing.

There are repercussions to expecting our young players to be losers in hopes of lucking out in the lottery some year, then turning to winners. What we'd gain by a super pick could be lost by the rest of the young players becoming disgruntled, whether by tanking as the only plan or putting together non-NBA calibre rosters until we luck out (if we ever would).

I expect the Front Office and Suns fans to cover ALL aspects of building a playoff threat rather than follow extremes. That's bush league. The job of GM is complex, especially when he has to get the Managing General Partner's approval each day to plan his job. Which is why Sarver has gone with inexperienced GM's. Because one who's been around would tell him to put it where the 'sun don't shine'.

Insecurity rolls downhill. So does losing.

Until it doesn’t. Exhibit 1: 76ers 10-7 and sitting in 6 seed by seething in young talent.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Haha.

Happy Tanksgiving everyone!

miss you tonight big bro

 

[Cheesebeef]

Speaking for myself, what I did not enjoy was poker's constant sarcastic comments and disappointment when the Suns won a game. It stopped being funny. It became downright depressing.

seriously... who cares what poker says... especially to the point of it being depressing to you. he sees one way for the Suns to get good, you see another and nothing EITHER of you say has any impact on the team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ya think we may have talked this tanking thing to death by now?

The Suns are doing exactly what I want them to do. They fired the coach that was not teaching and hired a guy who seems to have a plan, at least temporarily. They are trying to fill the roster with talented young players who really want be here. They are trying win every game while not sacrificing the future by trading away young talent for win-now, short-term, vets (Monroe is not about winning now). They are learning to be an unselfish team and passing the rock. Although it seems it took trading Bledsoe or firing Watson, or both, to teach this.

They need to angle for the best possible pick in this draft. I think they should do that through trades (picks swap or something) so the players do not feel like mgmt WANTS them to lose.

I think they need to make a front office hire to take the focus off of Sarver--maybe Steve Nash as President or something.