Calvin Pace

[LVCARDFREAK]

He could; all he would have to do is outplay the two players that we had to sign to replace his production because he's been so bad.

And he could do that too, but more likely he will get some significant playing time as a backup spelling Berry and produce numbers accordingly!

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't think that a "third round steal" takes three years to crack the starting lineup behind a creaky Ronald McKinnon. But I may be wrong. Maybe he'll be good, but we didn't sign Orlando Huff this offseason for nothing.

If you doubt that he's a fringe player, look at TSN's roster analysis.

Huff is playing WLB right next to Hayes MLB. They both are starting!

A fringe player is someone that has a 50/50 chance of making the team. Hayes is listed as a starter right now and that pretty much locks him up as making this team.

 

[BigDavis75]

He could; all he would have to do is outplay the two players that we had to sign to replace his production because he's been so bad.

A lot of good teams have solid three end rotations.

 

[kerouac9]

Huff is playing WLB right next to Hayes MLB. They both are starting!

A fringe player is someone that has a 50/50 chance of making the team. Hayes is listed as a starter right now and that pretty much locks him up as making this team.

No, a fringe player is a player that's in the bottom third of the league in terms of starters--or lower. A "fringe" player ranks below "solid," with would be in the middle third of starters up to the top 10 or 20 percent (elite players).

Can you really say that Jeremy Bridges or Reggie Wells are more than fringe players? There aren't more than maybe two or three teams in the league that would even pick them up should they be waived. And yet they start. And are (relatively) unchallenged!

We can pump up Gerald Hayes all we want--how mediocre he was against an uninspired Bucs team in a meaningless game at then end of last season, his "standout" performances on one of the worst special teams in the NFL, etc.--but the fact remains that he's no better than the third-best MLB in the division, and we really have no idea how he'll perform. Except to say that last season he couldn't beat out Ronald McKinnon, who was horrible all season long.

By the way, all of the players picked ahead of Gerald Hayes in the third round were starters or major contributors to their teams: Kelley Washington (3rd WR in Cincy), Cory Redding (Lions starting DE--9 starts as a rookie, 16 last season), Antwan Peek (starting LB for the Texans--10 starts as rookie, 14 last season), Lance Briggs (starting LB for the Bears--and started every game from when he was a rook), and Jason Witten (starting TE and Pro Bowl candidate for the Cowboys--31 starts the last two seasons). Heck, players taken after Hayes have contributed more than he has (like Nate Burleson[24 starts], Kevin Curtis, and Seth Wand [18 career starts]).

 

[Crazy Canuck]

No, a fringe player is a player that's in the bottom third of the league in terms of starters--or lower.

Says who? Source ?

 

[kerouac9]

Says who? Source ?

It's my definition to counter MCDs. Do you have something different/more authoratative? That's about what it looked like when I was scanning TSN's NFL preview.

 

[CardLogic]

K9 - reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail!

No arms, no legs, still defending the bridge...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

It's my definition to counter MCDs. Do you have something different/more authoratative? That's about what it looked like when I was scanning TSN's NFL preview.

A greater authority than you ? How could that be possible!

 

[40yearfan]

K9 - reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail!

No arms, no legs, still defending the bridge...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

K9 - reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail!

No arms, no legs, still defending the bridge...

"Come on you bastards... fight!"

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, you're all right. Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace are both upper-echelon players who have been totally overlooked for the Pro Bowl the last two seasons. Such injustice!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yeah, you're all right. Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace are both upper-echelon players who have been totally overlooked for the Pro Bowl the last two seasons. Such injustice!

Who said that ? Source ?

(or is this more of your usual petulance, when the world doesn't bow to superior knowledge on all things ?)

 

[MadCardDisease]

No, a fringe player is a player that's in the bottom third of the league in terms of starters--or lower. A "fringe" player ranks below "solid," with would be in the middle third of starters up to the top 10 or 20 percent (elite players).

Clearly your definition of fringe player is different from mine. To me a fringe player means that you are on the edge(fringe) and you may not make the team.

 

[Russ Smith]

K9 - reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail!

No arms, no legs, still defending the bridge...

It's just a flesh wound!

 

[Pariah]

Yeah, you're all right. Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace are both upper-echelon players who have been totally overlooked for the Pro Bowl the last two seasons. Such injustice!

Isn't there somewhere between "fringe" and "pro bowl?"

I think Hayes will be good for us in the middle, and I think Pace would start this year on a lot of teams (though probably not in years' past).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think Hayes will be good for us in the middle, and I think Pace would start this year on a lot of teams (though probably not in years' past).

Are you kidding? What has Pace really done between now and when he was benched halfway through last season other than get a couple sacks against Dallas' 3rd string offense in a preseason game to warrant that assumption? I'm pretty sure he accomplished that same feat a couple seasons ago against the Cowboy's first unit and then followed that up with his miserable 2003 performance.

I want Pace to succeed as much as the next guy but until I see it in meaningful games I'm going to be cautious and label him as the backup the coaching staff who sees him on the field everyday does. Sorry but preseason performance and some rhetoric about trying harder means jack to me.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, you're all right. Gerald Hayes and Calvin Pace are both upper-echelon players who have been totally overlooked for the Pro Bowl the last two seasons. Such injustice!

Considering the stellar coaching and talent evaluation skills of the last HC in Arizona I would suggest you give both of those players a break since we have no clue what they can do. Just like coach mac.

BTW: go back to 2003 - the link is below, and look at Hayes stats during the last 4 games of the season while small play ray was out. The guy can play he just hasn't had the chance because wrong gap ronnie was ahead of him. The guy had 7 tackles against Seattle last year in week 16 when they finally moved the icon out!

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2003/week1

 

[jstadvl]

I've heard

that Hayes is the real deal. He just gets to excited and leaves his brain elsewhere sometimes. If he puts it together, word is, he'll be a pro bowler.
Iv'e been waiting for Pace to break out. Maybe he won't. i think he will and if the powers that be didn't, he'd be gone. How it'll work out remains to be seen. These two will have a positive impact on the team this year, imo.

 

[AzCards21]

that Hayes is the real deal. He just gets to excited and leaves his brain elsewhere sometimes. If he puts it together, word is, he'll be a pro bowler.
Iv'e been waiting for Pace to break out. Maybe he won't. i think he will and if the powers that be didn't, he'd be gone. How it'll work out remains to be seen. These two will have a positive impact on the team this year, imo.

You getting your arse back in your seat will help too!

 

[justAndy]

Isn't there somewhere between "fringe" and "pro bowl?"

I think Hayes will be good for us in the middle, and I think Pace would start this year on a lot of teams (though probably not in years' past).

we need this reasoning on the P&R board.
I bitch and praise when the season starts...

 

[jstadvl]

Hey 21

it's so nice to be wanted! No more trips (one in Oct.) on Cards weekends!

 

[Denny Green Fan]

I still cant figure out why he shot up the draft board that year

 

[Russ Smith]

I still cant figure out why he shot up the draft board that year

Because he'd fallen DOWN the board after he broke his leg late in the season. People forget Pace played in a bowl game that year on a broken leg. When everyone else was going to speed camp or working out for the combine(or doing cycles they knew would end in time to test clean at the combine), Pace was rehabbing a broken leg.

So his initial workouts were very poor, much slower than usual and he couldn't lift. When he finally did his personal workout he ran much better and lifted well enough he moved back up.

Bobby Bowden himself called Pace the best athlete in the ACC his senior year.