Can the Cards afford to trade Shelton?

[AntSports Steve]

After talking to Kent Somers via email, the final word on Shelton's contract is his prorated cap money left is $3.34M, which means if the Cards trade him, they lose $0.34 million of cap space.

If the Cards traded do somekind of Henry/Shelton trade , the cards lose cap space for Shelton and lose cap space to Henry.

With the Okerfer signing, the Cards are somewhere between $5-$7.5M under.

Team needs :

Redo Boldin - Can work around the cap some, but most likely will take more 2005 cap space.

A FA CB - Could cost a large amount of cap space.

T Henry - If the trade goes thru - He could want large cap space.

If the Cards had $6 million, that's only 2 M of cap space for each. A CB or Henry will cost more than that most likely.

I think the Cards now have to keep Shelton as their starting RT and move Ross over to RG. They don't have the cap space to make the Henry trade.

Only a trade for a 2nd or 3rd round pick works unless the Cards are done in free agency after the trade.

There are a few minor cuts to be made on the roster, but if you trade Shelton and cut Clemment, you create another hole at the OL position.
With Warner as the starting QB, you can't afford to skimp on the OL.

 

[Shane]

WOW! By trading Shelton we actually LOSE CAP SPACE! Thats fricken incredible. I say keep him now. Unless we can get Henry and make it work.

How much money would we get back by cutting King, Thompson, Hodgins, etc..... Could that free up enough money to make it work?

 

[Jasper]

WOW! By trading Shelton we actually LOSE CAP SPACE! Thats fricken incredible. I say keep him now. Unless we can get Henry and make it work.

How much money would we get back by cutting King, Thompson, Hodgins, etc..... Could that free up enough money to make it work?

These guys were barely signed awhile ago. If cut, I think their SB's will still count a large amount towards the cap space.

Its what happens when you have excess baggage.

Thompson I was happy to have him resigned and stay in Arizona, now I regret my happiness. Overrated, nice payday for him. Its what happens when you are a star on a terrible defense during your contract year. I'm sure he will bolt to St. Louis if given the chance to reunite with Marmie.

Hodgins, I dunno what happened? He was one of the better fullbacks in the league when we signed him.

King? Please, what a waste of time and money. One game said it all. Our third string rookie QB played better than he did when given the chance. He's out of football. He would make a very good high school football coach though, but not in Arizona. No one in Arizona can forgive the disaster that was displayed during that 3int, 4 fumble Carolina game.

 

[BACH]

After talking to Kent Somers via email, the final word on Shelton's contract is his prorated cap money left is $3.34M, which means if the Cards trade him, they lose $0.34 million of cap space.

Funny... Can Kent explain this then?

Cardinals | Shelton Contract Negotiations - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:23:12 -0800

Kent Somers, of the Arizona Republic, reports the Arizona Cardinals and representatives of OT L.J. Shelton have been negotiating diligently the past few weeks in hopes of reaching a contract-extention by Monday, Nov. 3, which marks the deadline for certain salary cap restrictions. If the deal is completed by Monday, any increase in salary would be counted against this year's cap. The Cardinals are interested in this because they are about $10.5 million under the cap for this season. If a contract is reached after the deadline, any salary increase would be treated as a signing bonus for cap purposes and would be prorated over the life of the deal. Shelton is due to become an unrestricted free agent after this season.


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I'm 99,9% sure that Kent is wrong. Only $1.5M of SHelton's $5M bonus was pro-rated. The remaining $3.5 was paid as a 2003 base salary increase. I think Joeshom would back me up on this.

 

[AntSports Steve]

I talked to Kent, and he said both Shelton's agent and NFLPA agree.

Shelton got a contract extension in Nov 2003, which gave him a $2M raise for that year (kind of like a bonus, off the 2003 cap) and a $5M signing bonus, which they prorated across 6 years for $0.833333 per year. So, according to Kent, he still has 4 years left. $0.8333 * 4 years = $3.33333 as prorated bonus.

 

[joeshmo]

I'm 99,9% sure that Kent is wrong. Only $1.5M of SHelton's $5M bonus was pro-rated. The remaining $3.5 was paid as a 2003 base salary increase. I think Joeshom would back me up on this.

Thats what I thought, but was speculation. I knew not all of his bonus was paid as salary that year, just didnt know how much.

I would go with what Kent said, and What Sheltons agent told him until told other wise.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

I lean toward keeping Shelton if and only if we can't get the deal with Henry done. At best he may win a starting guard slot, at worst he's decent line depth(and with our track record that's dang important).

 

[Skkorpion]

By cutting Anthony Clement and Wendell Bryant and Calvin Pace, we should be able to free up several mill. Check joeschmo's numbers.

 

[TheCardFan]

I lean toward keeping Shelton if and only if we can't get the deal with Henry done. At best he may win a starting guard slot, at worst he's decent line depth(and with our track record that's dang important).

Ok...ok...I have to agree. I have officially changed my mind.

I would trade Shelton for Henry or Surtain but if we can't get a #1 RB or #1 CB, it makes more sense to keep him and play him at RG and back-up LT. Even with a second rd pick, it would be hard to replace him.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

Ok...ok...I have to agree. I have officially changed my mind.

I would trade Shelton for Henry or Surtain but if we can't get a #1 RB or #1 CB, it makes more sense to keep him and play him at RG and back-up LT. Even with a second rd pick, it would be hard to replace him.

That's right, slip into my mind controlling Kool-Aid Muhahahaha!

 

[CorporalCardinal]

By cutting Anthony Clement and Wendell Bryant and Calvin Pace, we should be able to free up several mill. Check joeschmo's numbers.

How 'bout trying to trade Clement and Bryant? Pace I think we keep around for another year. After all, 4 sacks in limited time ain't too shabby, I would like to see his deal restructured though. As for Clement and Bryant, I think we could get late 4th round to middle 5th round for them, which would help us with need positions.

 

[vince56]

How 'bout trying to trade Clement and Bryant? Pace I think we keep around for another year. After all, 4 sacks in limited time ain't too shabby, I would like to see his deal restructured though. As for Clement and Bryant, I think we could get late 4th round to middle 5th round for them, which would help us with need positions.

you honestly think Bryant would get anything in a trade? he's making 1st round money and has barely sniffed the field in over a year. If we cut him, some team will make a flyer on him in the hopes of him being productive, but no one is gonna pick up his current contract, let alone give us anything for him.

 

[CardNots]

you honestly think Bryant would get anything in a trade? he's making 1st round money and has barely sniffed the field in over a year. If we cut him, some team will make a flyer on him in the hopes of him being productive, but no one is gonna pick up his current contract, let alone give us anything for him.

Not to mention he is a finance major. He is too busy investing his windfall to worry about improving himself. When we drafted him they talked about how smart he was because he was a finance major. I worried about this, figuring he knew he only needed one big payday and he would be set.

 

[joeshmo]

you honestly think Bryant would get anything in a trade? he's making 1st round money and has barely sniffed the field in over a year. If we cut him, some team will make a flyer on him in the hopes of him being productive, but no one is gonna pick up his current contract, let alone give us anything for him.

Saying 1st round money is misleading. If traded all the team that he is traded to would have to pay is his base salary of $455,000.

His contract would have nothing to do with a team not trading for him.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

Notice I said Clement AND Bryant, I'm not dumb enough to think Bryant would fetch anything beyond a 7th IF that. It's obvious the guy quit on us. So package them together and get SOMETHING for them AND Caproom rather then just flat out cut them.

 

[vince56]

Notice I said Clement AND Bryant, I'm not dumb enough to think Bryant would fetch anything beyond a 7th IF that. It's obvious the guy quit on us. So package them together and get SOMETHING for them AND Caproom rather then just flat out cut them.

Now that I completely agree with. They are worthless on their own, but a packaged deal could work

 

[CorporalCardinal]

Now that I completely agree with. They are worthless on their own, but a packaged deal could work

And with that pick we get for 'em we could draft a high motor, enthusiastic, teachable player to provide depth and that in and of itself would be an upgrade.

 

[HookemCards]

By cutting Anthony Clement and Wendell Bryant and Calvin Pace, we should be able to free up several mill. Check joeschmo's numbers.

Actually unless I don't understand the way the cap works, (completely possible) we will take a cap hit by cutting or trading Pace or Bryant. Even if this is the last year of their contract Bryant would cost us about 500k to cut him right now, Pace alittle over 100k. If they both have multiple years left on their contracts, then its even more.

12 Wendell Bryant DT $455,000 $1,100,000 $1,555,000
16 Calvin Pace DE $473,750 $600,000 $1,073,750


Clement would be about a 2 millions savings, IF this is the last year of his current contract.

6 Anthony Clement T $2,400,000 $600,000 $3,000,000

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here.

* Sorry about spacing, looked right when I wrote it *

 

[Cards Czar]

Actually unless I don't understand the way the cap works, (completely possible) we will take a cap hit by cutting or trading Pace or Bryant. Even if this is the last year of their contract Bryant would cost us about 500k to cut him right now, Pace alittle over 100k. If they both have multiple years left on their contracts, then its even more.

12 Wendell Bryant DT $455,000 $1,100,000 $1,555,000
16 Calvin Pace DE $473,750 $600,000 $1,073,750


Clement would be about a 2 millions savings, IF this is the last year of his current contract.

6 Anthony Clement T $2,400,000 $600,000 $3,000,000

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here.

* Sorry about spacing, looked right when I wrote it *

Bryant has 2 yrs left on his contract. His base is $455,000 and his real bonus is $1,104,400 X2yrs.
We would take a cap hit of $1,753,800 if we let him go before June 1st. After June 1st it would be a cap hit of $876,900.

Clement has 2 yrs left on his contract. as above $600,000 x2 = $1,200,000.
We would get a saving of $1,200,000.


Hope that helps.

 

[john h]

After talking to Kent Somers via email, the final word on Shelton's contract is his prorated cap money left is $3.34M, which means if the Cards trade him, they lose $0.34 million of cap space.

If the Cards traded do somekind of Henry/Shelton trade , the cards lose cap space for Shelton and lose cap space to Henry.

With the Okerfer signing, the Cards are somewhere between $5-$7.5M under.

Team needs :

Redo Boldin - Can work around the cap some, but most likely will take more 2005 cap space.

A FA CB - Could cost a large amount of cap space.

T Henry - If the trade goes thru - He could want large cap space.

If the Cards had $6 million, that's only 2 M of cap space for each. A CB or Henry will cost more than that most likely.

I think the Cards now have to keep Shelton as their starting RT and move Ross over to RG. They don't have the cap space to make the Henry trade.

Only a trade for a 2nd or 3rd round pick works unless the Cards are done in free agency after the trade.

There are a few minor cuts to be made on the roster, but if you trade Shelton and cut Clemment, you create another hole at the OL position.
With Warner as the starting QB, you can't afford to skimp on the OL.

I still would like to retain Shelton. You cannot have to many good OL. A good RB ready to play can be had in the draft. If we lose Shelton we will need to replace him somehow and there is no one out there as good as he is. If Big or Ross goes down and you can bet they will miss some games I would like to see Shelton on board. Our next big need is a DB preferable in FA as you will not get one in the draft is ready to start and not be a liability due to inexperience. I saw on Sports Center at 5 pm (Tuesday) that one of the better strong safety's in football had requested the team let him seek a trade and the team agreed. Maybe they need a LT. Forget this guys name but led team in tackles and apparently top flight.

 

[CorporalCardinal]

I still would like to retain Shelton. You cannot have to many good OL. A good RB ready to play can be had in the draft. If we lose Shelton we will need to replace him somehow and there is no one out there as good as he is. If Big or Ross goes down and you can bet they will miss some games I would like to see Shelton on board. Our next big need is a DB preferable in FA as you will not get one in the draft is ready to start and not be a liability due to inexperience. I saw on Sports Center at 5 pm (Tuesday) that one of the better strong safety's in football had requested the team let him seek a trade and the team agreed. Maybe they need a LT. Forget this guys name but led team in tackles and apparently top flight.

Donovan Daurius out of Jacksonville, and that's out of the question with the signing of Griffith and Wilson already entrenched at Strong Safety.

 

[JasonKGME]

I keep seeing a lot of posts about how the excellerated signing bonus's affect the cap hit when you cut/trade a player, a perfect example is the Shelton deal, where Ant Sports shows:

"After talking to Kent Somers via email, the final word on Shelton's contract is his prorated cap money left is $3.34M, which means if the Cards trade him, they lose $0.34 million of cap space"


This is a misconception and let me explain why, take the #'s from JoeShmo's cap page, Shelton is:

Base Salary $3,000,000
Signing Bonus $833,333
Total Cap Hit This Year $3,833,333

Which means his signing bonus allready is counted against this years cap as well as his salary, so assume we trade Shelton to wherever, and assume we do so before June 1st, so we excellerate his signing bonus onto this years cap here are the #'s:

Signing Bonus 2005 - $833,333
Signing Bonus 2006 - $833,333
Signing Bonus 2007 - $833,333
Signing Bonus 2008 - $833,333
Total Signing Bonus - $3,333,332

So that would be the new cap hit, so take his current this year hit of $3,833,333 and subtract what would be the actual cap hit after trade and you actually havea cap savings of $500,001.


Not much admittedly but you wouldnt actually take a cap hit to do this you would just have a large "dead cap space" area is all.



Now some other players that you can use the philosphy on and get some more cap space back:

Anthony Clement current contract cap hit $3,000,000, 2 year signing bonus left at $600,000 per year, total cap savings $1,800,000.
(so if your keeping someone for depth and you dont trade Shelton, makes sense to cut Clement)

Raynoch Thompson current contract cap hit $2,656,250, 2 year signing bonus left at $656,250 per year, total cap savings $1,343,750.

Marcel Shipp current contract cap hit $1,862,500, 2 year signing bonus left at $437,500 per year, total cap savings $987,500

Fred Wakefield current contract cap hit $950,000, 2 year signing bonus left at $200,000 per year, total cap savings $550,000

Plus you have several players with no signing bonus so you can save thier salary by cutting them, players like Ohalete, Harris & Kolodziej.

 

[AzKarl]

Shelton and Clement will both be gone

I personally spoke to a Senior Cardinal Executive who told me that both Shelton and Clement will be history before next season with the desired method being a trade. This Executive said when I asked why, that both players were deemed to be lazy and unwilling to work to get in shape and that one or both were deemed to be a club house cancer that needed to be removed.

Oliver Ross is seen as a hard worker/ overachiever who will be an excellent leader and shows great work ethic. The Executive told me that Green is turning the whole losing mindset around and that the McGuiness era of no accountablity and playing people because of their salary was over. Green is in charge baby.

 

[arthurracoon]

I personally spoke to a Senior Cardinal Executive who told me that both Shelton and Clement will be history before next season with the desired method being a trade. This Executive said when I asked why, that both players were deemed to be lazy and unwilling to work to get in shape and that one or both were deemed to be a club house cancer that needed to be removed.

Oliver Ross is seen as a hard worker/ overachiever who will be an excellent leader and shows great work ethic. The Executive told me that Green is turning the whole losing mindset around and that the McGuiness era of no accountablity and playing people because of their salary was over. Green is in charge baby.

Interesting

 

[Zeno]

JasonKGME
That was a good explanation. I always thought what you explained but wasn't 100% sure. If I remember correctly the only guaranteed money is the signing bonus, when a player is cut or traded any remaining bonus is accelerated to that years cap and the bonus is figured over the life of the contract.

The only question I do have is when does the "dead money" clear? Does that dead money only stay there for the season during which they are released or what?