Can we play cover 2 with A.Wilson @ S?

[sundevil04]

Go

Would it be possible to make the transition to a cover 2 scheme with a.wilson @ ss? It just seems that our defensive personnel (namely the cb's) are so much better suited for that type of physical play. I am a strong believer that the transition for green and rolle from a physical bump style play in college to a soft cover 1 scheme in AZ is the main reason for their struggles. If we were able to make the transition to a cover 2 we could leave rolle and green at corners while going after a ballhawk fs like l.landry in the draft and a wlb built for the cover 2 like c.june in fa and be ready to roll without a complete overhaul to the defensive personnel like it seems would be necessary if we remain in the cover 1. The only set back to this transition may be a.wilson @ ss is he strong enough in pass coverage to play the cover 2? opinions?

p.s. didn't tampa play the cover 2 with j.lynch @ ss?
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[abomb]

Does the cover 2 always employ the 4-3 up front?

 

[sundevil04]

Go

normally but not always
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[abomb]

I just read this.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1437187.html

How was Lynch so successful in the cover 2 especially at the LOS and as a blitzer? How do you even blitz in the cover 2? Bring in a nickle corner to take the SS spot?

 

[football karma]

You can play cover 2 behind a 3-4

the key with the cover two is a MLB who is fast enough to get back and cover the deep middle of the zone -- with both safeties playing deep halves, the soft spot in the zone is the 15 - 20 yard in cut -- thus you need a LB who can get back to that spot in time to have his head up and ready to make a play on the ball.

You also have to be able to stop the run with the front seven since the safeties are playing so deep, and pressure the passer (for the most part) with the front four.

John Lynch made his name in part because under the scheme, everything was in front of him. He could just run up and hit. Also, many passes had to be thrown with some touch -- getting it over the LB's head but in front of a safety-- he could just unload on the poor WR who is waiting for that finesse pass to come down.

 

[abomb]

John Lynch made his name in part because under the scheme, everything was in front of him. He could just run up and hit. Also, many passes had to be thrown with some touch -- getting it over the LB's head but in front of a safety-- he could just unload on the poor WR who is waiting for that finesse pass to come down.

Thanks for the info.

So by that degree, how did or did Lynch ever have to really cover a burner stride for stride on a fly or post route? He doesnt seem that fast to me; no faster than #24.

 

[Matt L]

Tampa Bay's cover two scheme worked so well because for the majority of the plays, the defense only needed four defensive linemen to create pressure on the quarterback. This left the other seven players on defense to cover the field. We do not have four d-linemen who get after the quarterback as much, we create pressure by sending Wilson and Dansby adn almost anyone else. if i remember correctly, after Belicheck watched the film of the preseason game against Pittsburgh he muttered something to the effect that these guys blitz on almost every down. This is one of the reasons why it seems like they always find wide open spots in our zones, it is because we are blitzing so many defenders.

 

[BigDavis75]

Wilson would do fine in a Cover-2, I personally think that would be the best move for our D. Look at how successful Bob Sanders ahs been in a Cover-2, We have some of the personnel in place for a Cover-2, namely Dockett, Hayes, and Rolle but we are missing a valuable piece at WOLB. If we can bring in Lance Briggs then I am all for a Cover-2.

 

[Pariah]

John Lynch made his name in part because under the scheme, everything was in front of him. He could just run up and hit. Also, many passes had to be thrown with some touch -- getting it over the LB's head but in front of a safety-- he could just unload on the poor WR who is waiting for that finesse pass to come down.

Agreed, but it's not a matter of "just" unloading on the guy in front of you. You still need to ract to the ball and have the instincts and thr ability to unload like that. Lots of teams play the cover two. Not a lot of teams have a John Lynch playing SS.

My point is only this: you cannot dismiss Lynch's career because he played in a cover-2 D, or even a cober-2 that had great pressure up front. He was a very good SS and made more of his situation than most could.

 

[joeshmo]

Wouldnt playing cover 2 negate Hayes playing style and what has made him good this year.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

You can play cover 2 behind a 3-4

the key with the cover two is a MLB who is fast enough to get back and cover the deep middle of the zone -- with both safeties playing deep halves, the soft spot in the zone is the 15 - 20 yard in cut -- thus you need a LB who can get back to that spot in time to have his head up and ready to make a play on the ball.

You also have to be able to stop the run with the front seven since the safeties are playing so deep, and pressure the passer (for the most part) with the front four.

John Lynch made his name in part because under the scheme, everything was in front of him. He could just run up and hit. Also, many passes had to be thrown with some touch -- getting it over the LB's head but in front of a safety-- he could just unload on the poor WR who is waiting for that finesse pass to come down.

Agreed, you have to have a middle linebacker that can explode down the field as a run-through player and two safties that are ball-hawks.

Pendergast employed a base Cover Two scheme against Seattle and Denver. We have been running a Cover Two the majority of snaps the last part of the season. Against Seattle and Denver we ran Cover 2 probably eighty percent of defensive snaps. The Cover two scheme helps our corners, but in my opinion makes Wilson and Dansby passive players.

I'll go on the record and state that I think that a base Cover Two scheme sucks. It is a liability against the run, check out Indy and Tampa on a yearly basis. There is only seven in the box which make it easy to block and the DL plays with no technique, they rush the passer on every play. Jacksonville loved this technique against Indy a couple of weeks ago. Even in Chicago, which has IMO the best front 7 in the NFL they have struggled stopping the run. I also go on the record and state I do not want Ron Rivera as a head coach. Chicago's scheme is very predictable because they line up in Cover Two almost every play and IMO his success is largely credited to a great cast on the defensive side of the ball. With their talent there is no excuse in some of the performances they have turned in on the defensive side of the ball. Hell, we had a guy starting his first game, a shuffled offensive line and moved the ball at will until Green brought in the reigns and became conservative. In the second half when they were stuffing our run they weren't in a Cover Two, but the old bear "46" look with the strong safety in the box.

Give me the Ryan boys and Jim Johnson, they are much more creative than Rivera and his simplistic conservative scheme. Would you rather have Wilson around the line rushing the passer, stuffing the run or playing a deep half of the field? Would you rather have Dansby rushing the passer or dropping to zone on every play? A cover Two has never been successful without a dominant front four that can apply pressure with no blitzing. In my opinion Okeafor, Dockett, Watson, and Smith don't qualify.

 

[JeffGollin]

If Cover 2 means giving each of our safeties the deep half of the field to cover, doesn't this remove the threat of Adrian Wilson on the blitz and also limit Pendergast's flexibility to position him anywhere on the field?

Also - Does Robert Griffith still have the speed to provided deep support in coverage?

I know there was an article suggesting that the Cardinals 4-3 base (cover 2) defense had proved successful in the last 2 games. It worked pretty well for us against the Niners, but I disagree that it worked well against Denver. To the contrary, our failure to put enough pressure on Cutler allowed him to set his feet, locate his open receivers and pick us apart. At the very least, we should have mixed up our looks and our coverages to force him think more and, hopefully, make more mistakes.

 

[football karma]

I know there was an article suggesting that the Cardinals 4-3 base (cover 2) defense had proved successful in the last 2 games.

I dont know if they went straight cover 2, but they blitzed less --

I think the Seattle game Fox announcer noted that Clancy had told him that in past games with Seattle, the Seahawks caught the Cards in a number of blitzes, ran at them, and Alexander had big runs because the safeties were blocked at the line of scrimmage.

 

[Young Card]

A Cover-2 would not be a good fit for us. Griffith is not fast enough to play deep and he was never all that good in coverage. Wilson would not be rushing as often and would be taken out of games as would Dansby. Our D-Line is not skilled enough and has enough trouble rushing the passer as is. Ron Rivera would most likely install a Cover-2 which would set this defense back. The Ryan brothers and Johnson are better fits for us. The only reason to run a Cover-2 would be to help our corners but it would hurt the rest of the D. Plus, Rolle can't hang onto Int's so....

 

[jmr667]

I know there was an article suggesting that the Cardinals 4-3 base (cover 2) defense had proved successful in the last 2 games. It worked pretty well for us against the Niners, but I disagree that it worked well against Denver. To the contrary, our failure to put enough pressure on Cutler allowed him to set his feet, locate his open receivers and pick us apart. At the very least, we should have mixed up our looks and our coverages to force him think more and, hopefully, make more mistakes.

It worked great against the Niners because they have had so many injuries on their OL that it was easy to get pressure with just a 4-man rush. If the Cards had not been able to get pressure against that OL it would have been embarassing.