Can't get behind the mavs...

Suns_fan69

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Unquestionably a great team, but I can't seem to appreciate them like I should.

I'm not the only one: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/070309

The Dallas Mavericks are a great team. Fifty-one out of their last 56, a point differential of 8-plus a night, a 16-game win streak -- even without rings on their fingers (yet), I'm calling them great. Straight out. The regular season they're putting together ranks with some of the best we've ever seen. Barring a crippling injury or a brush with a norovirus, they're going to belong at the table with the 1996 Bulls, the 1986 Celtics, the 1983 Sixers and the 1972 Lakers as architects of a truly dominant 82-game run.

I just wish I cared. I wish they inspired me even a little. I have tremendous respect, but I wish I felt any kind of genuine enthusiasm for them at all. I wish I felt the love. I know this sounds petty (particularly if you're a Dallas diehard) but I can't shake the feeling. Or lack thereof. Those other elite clubs had strong identities, some juice, some compelling lightning something about them. Jordan made 72 a mission, a dare, and Rodman made every day an adventure in self-loathing rebounding genius. Bird defended the home turf like a frothing dog. Moses was Moses and Doc was Doc. The Lakers, with Wilt holding the block and West sniping from every kind of angle, over every kind of defender, looked supernatural. You didn't have to love them but you had to pay attention. In fact, you couldn't turn away.

The other day a friend said to me, "Hey, check out the Mavs," as if they were underdogs on a little hot streak, as if they were a penny on the sidewalk or a roadside attraction spotted through a car window, as if they weren't actually running roughshod over the league night in and night out. We should be trained on them, geeked, obsessed, awed, but we aren't. The Suns -- Steve's boys, the fuel-injected fun ball gang, a brotherhood forged in dedication to a philosophy, a dream -- are captivating. The Pistons -- a gangly, tough, scrap-heap collective straight out of "Kelly's Heroes," a bunch, even with a title in the bag, who are absolutely certain you don't believe in them -- inspire. The Mavs don't compete historically and they don't compete now.

Mark Cuban's part of the problem. He's smart, funny and insightful. He speaks truth to power and sometimes goes on entertaining, ridiculous rants (see the Dwyane Wade smackdown a couple weeks back) for all the world to see. I love him. But there's no denying that he overshadows the team on the floor. He's the maverick Maverick, the face of the franchise. Entertaining as he is, he's no pathway to connecting with the team or the game they play. I don't root for him. I don't root for them because of him. He's ownership. I want to give a damn about labor.

And even if I look past Cuban, all I see is Nowitzki. Which means all I see is accurate, somewhat wooden jump shots and hard-to-guard head-fake finishes. The guy is a superstar, probably the league MVP given what the team is doing. He gets banged on nightly and he wears the mantle of being The Man with seeming ease and determination. He's a fantastic player. I admire the hell out of him. But he's also, I'm sorry, boring to watch. No signature move. No defining moment (as of yet). No edge, no magic. Think of him next to the other top-tier players in the league right now. Play word association. Nash is Miraculous, Wade is Relentless, James is Terrifying, Arenas is Nutty and Garnett is Fierce. Nowitzki is, I don't know, Proficient?

Ditto the rest of the club, a collection of almost perfectly calibrated role players. Josh Howard is a formidable talent, but his skill set, spread out across the pallet like it is, and the fact that he must defer to Dirk in key moments, makes him near invisible. After him it's Terry, Stackhouse, Buckner, Harris, Dampier, Diop, John and Doe. Nothing to hang your hat or your heart on. And it's not just personnel, it's approach, too. Once upon a time the Mavs were a fairly freestyling bunch, practitioners of a kind of lyrical ball movement. Now, under Avery Johnson's able direction and bulldog disposition, they're prone to win at a slower pace, with more isolations and jump shots. They have a method, but no style, nothing I can get behind, nothing that stands out.

And this is just the way they want it, I'm sure. They no doubt love the relative anonymity. It's good for team unity, and more importantly it fits with the shape-shifting, come-at-you-from-all-angles way they like to play, sometimes speeding it up to tax a team like the Spurs, and sometimes dialing it back to flummox a team like the Suns. Dirk, Avery, Josh, they're more than comfortable with their relative blandness, I'm sure. Couldn't care less. Never give it a thought. It's about wins and losses for them. (Actually, it's pretty much just about wins.) What they're doing, who they are, their super-smooth blend of talents, their always-flexible approach to style and strategy, it all works for them. They win with it. They win nine nights out of 10 with it. They win enough games to be in the All-Time Great conversation with it.

So what else do I want? Why aren't I satisfied? What's my problem? Why can't I get with the lunch-pail, measure-and-cut genius of this club? Why is it so hard for me to see, like my grandfather would have seen, that this team is so damned appealing precisely because there's nothing special, nothing flashy, about them?

I'm just selfish is what it is. It ain't right, I know, but I want more than the wins. I want to feel about them the way I felt about the Bulls, the Celtics, the Sixers, and (though I was quite young then) the Lakers, the way I feel about the Suns and Pistons now. Passionate. Mesmerized. I want talk of great teams to be animated by the inimitable and intriguing character of their core groups and their superstars, not just compelled by the gaudy evidence of their records. We're talking about the Mavs, when we remember to talk about them at all, because they've won a big ol' boatload of basketball games. End of story. Yes, they're a great team, but greatness isn't everything. The Bulls, the Celtics, the Sixers, the Lakers, they had magic, too, they had something that vibrates even now, something that captures my imagination even in recollection. The Suns make me want to find a run. The Pistons make me think defense is some sort of higher calling.

And maybe that's my strongest feeling for the Mavs. Maybe the way they make me appreciate those other teams all over again, and more intensely, is what excites me the most about them.

That's not bad, actually. That's pretty special. Heck, I could almost love them for that.

I apologize in advance for starting another Dallas related thread.
 

Lorenzo

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Unquestionably a great team, but I can't seem to appreciate them like I should.

I'm not the only one: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/070309



I apologize in advance for starting another Dallas related thread.
that's okay....it gives me a reason to stay here on this board. as i said before....dallas is having a great year. and who cares about that unless they win it all. then it will be remembered as a great season.
 

TheHopToad

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Great article and accurate too! I've always thought that the Mavericks were boring, even though they win.

I thought this was written by our pal Bill Simmons, but I see that it's Eric Neel. Everybody loves watching the Suns, I guess...
 

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Back in Jan, the Spurs were talking about not peaking too early. With their latest push, it looks like this was more than wishful thinking. But it opens up an interesting question: are the Mavs peaking too early?

The best regular season record has not been any guarantee of a championship. Last year's Heat are an extreme example, but they are hardly the first low seed team that got hot when it counted.

Two years ago the Suns had the best record in the league, but their record was based on being healthy. This year's Suns may not match that team's record, but it will certainly be better prepared mentally due to having to fight so hard to keep going when short handed..
 

TheHopToad

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True, the Mavericks are a key injury away from being average again...
 

cly2tw

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True, the Mavericks are a key injury away from being average again...

Not gonna happen unless it's to Dirk. They have just too much athletic talent on that team to play the uninspired, but admittedly successful at least in the regular season, ball Avery instilled in them.

They have peaked in the sense that I don't think how they could up their play even further. In contrast, I think the Suns can still improve with more focus and the feel of urgency, come playoff time. We did it last year and only injury stopped us in the WCF.
 

boisesuns

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I'm sorry but the Pistons are one of the most boring teams in the NBA
 

Gaddabout

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How does a guy writing basketball not like to watch Dirk Nowitzki? I didn't think it took a nuanced understanding to be dazzled by what he does, but maybe I was wrong.
 

Lorenzo

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Not gonna happen unless it's to Dirk. They have just too much athletic talent on that team to play the uninspired, but admittedly successful at least in the regular season, ball Avery instilled in them.

They have peaked in the sense that I don't think how they could up their play even further. In contrast, I think the Suns can still improve with more focus and the feel of urgency, come playoff time. We did it last year and only injury stopped us in the WCF.
actually the mavs could get better. They are just ahead of everyone else(standings wise) right now so it looks like they are peaking.
the mavs aren't a boring team to watch. They are actually very exciting. Watching dirk toy with defenders as he shoots crazy shots. watching jason terry hit clutch shot after clutch shot. watching harris steal the ball and dunk in someone's grill is nice too....despite the fact that he is only 6' 3". Even erik dampier blocking a shot at the buzzer is fun. This is a great team. Maybe they don't run up and down the court as often as the suns do....but right now they are the best team in the nba. and it's fun to watch. but if i was a suns fan it probably wouldn't be so fun for me.
 

Lorenzo

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True, the Mavericks are a key injury away from being average again...
I think that's the suns. It seems an injury to a player(regardless of who it is) is the only reason they lose games.....it's not because there are other teams in the nba that can beat them.
 

Covert Rain

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Not gonna happen unless it's to Dirk. They have just too much athletic talent on that team to play the uninspired, but admittedly successful at least in the regular season, ball Avery instilled in them.

They have peaked in the sense that I don't think how they could up their play even further. In contrast, I think the Suns can still improve with more focus and the feel of urgency, come playoff time. We did it last year and only injury stopped us in the WCF.

I think if they lost Dirk or Terry they would be in big trouble. I agree that Dallas has peaked. What you see is what you get. There not going to get better between now and the playoffs. No offense to you Dallas fans but the article is right about Dallas being a boring team. Maybe not to Mav fans. However, I have watched a ton of Mavs, Spurs, Houston and Lakers this year. Love NBALP. By far the two most boring teams to watch are the Spurs and Mavs. Does it really matter though? At the end of the day though, all that counts is winning the title.
 
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Chaplin

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I think if they lost Dirk or Terry they would be in big trouble. I agree that Dallas has peaked. What you see is what you get. There not going to get better between now and the playoffs.

So what?

All this prognostication about how good the Mavericks are doesn't really mean anything. They may have "peaked", but what does that mean? It implies that it's all downhill for them now. It's not. Most likely, they'll just coast into the playoffs, or at least, until they wrap up the #1 seed.

As for the whole injury thing. Both the Suns and the Mavs are "one key injury" away from breaking down. But you can say that about ANY team. A Suns fan says the Mavs are one key injury away from being average. A Mavs fan comes back and says that it's the Suns who are one injury away. Well, duh. Nothing like hearing from Captain Obvious.

If we spent more time watching the Suns then posting 50% of the time about the Mavs maybe we won't have discussions like this. They're a good team, we're looking forward to Wednesday. That's it.
 

Lorenzo

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I think if they lost Dirk or Terry they would be in big trouble. I agree that Dallas has peaked. What you see is what you get. There not going to get better between now and the playoffs.
actually they could get better. you can't say what you see in the regular season is what you will get in the playoffs. If that's the case then the mavs win the title. The mavs are playing well right now against these teams that they should beat.... but there will be no creampuff games against the sixers or ok city hornets come playoff time.
an injury to dirk would kill the mavs. wishful thinking for suns fans maybe. terry would hurt as well. but the mavs can still win with dirk in the lineup.
 

Lorenzo

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So what?

All this prognostication about how good the Mavericks are doesn't really mean anything. They may have "peaked", but what does that mean? It implies that it's all downhill for them now. It's not. Most likely, they'll just coast into the playoffs, or at least, until they wrap up the #1 seed.

As for the whole injury thing. Both the Suns and the Mavs are "one key injury" away from breaking down. But you can say that about ANY team. A Suns fan says the Mavs are one key injury away from being average. A Mavs fan comes back and says that it's the Suns who are one injury away. Well, duh. Nothing like hearing from Captain Obvious.

If we spent more time watching the Suns then posting 50% of the time about the Mavs maybe we won't have discussions like this. They're a good team, we're looking forward to Wednesday. That's it.
I agree.
 

Lorenzo

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I think if they lost Dirk or Terry they would be No offense to you Dallas fans but the article is right about Dallas being a boring team. Maybe not to Mav fans. However, I have watched a ton of Mavs, Spurs, Houston and Lakers this year. Love NBALP. By far the two most boring teams to watch are the Spurs and Mavs. Does it really matter though? At the end of the day though, all that counts is winning the title.
maybe because you are tired of watching those two teams win......maybe because those two get it done in the 4th qtr at both ends and there is little suspense for them on most nba nights. I enjoy watching the spurs because of tony parker and manu ginobli. Having said that i hate the spurs more than any other team right now. But i have to admit they are a great team and i enjoy watching them play. I would have went with the ok city hornets or the boston celtics.....i guess those two are exciting to watch though when they play phoenix.
 

Covert Rain

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So what?

All this prognostication about how good the Mavericks are doesn't really mean anything. They may have "peaked", but what does that mean? It implies that it's all downhill for them now. It's not. Most likely, they'll just coast into the playoffs, or at least, until they wrap up the #1 seed.

As for the whole injury thing. Both the Suns and the Mavs are "one key injury" away from breaking down. But you can say that about ANY team. A Suns fan says the Mavs are one key injury away from being average. A Mavs fan comes back and says that it's the Suns who are one injury away. Well, duh. Nothing like hearing from Captain Obvious.

If we spent more time watching the Suns then posting 50% of the time about the Mavs maybe we won't have discussions like this. They're a good team, we're looking forward to Wednesday. That's it.

I don't recall anybody putting a time table on how long the Mavs would peak. I also don't recall anybody saying the Mavs were going to tank from here on out. In fact, they are probably peaking at the right time.

Also, I think when most people post here it's when the Suns are not actually on the tube Chap. So it would be hard to spend more time watching the Suns when they are not on. :D

Seriously though, I agree that all this Mavs talk can get irritating. Much of it is kept alive by Mavs fans though. I think the Suns fans on this board still post mostly about the Suns. I get what your saying though.


maybe because you are tired of watching those two teams win......maybe because those two get it done in the 4th qtr at both ends and there is little suspense for them on most nba nights. I enjoy watching the spurs because of tony parker and manu ginobli. Having said that i hate the spurs more than any other team right now. But i have to admit they are a great team and i enjoy watching them play. I would have went with the ok city hornets or the boston celtics.....i guess those two are exciting to watch though when they play phoenix.

Not at all. I don't get bored of watching teams win or lose. I just like watching good games with good players. It's the style that I find boring. Even some of the Mavs or Spurs close games just were not that fun to watch (minus the last couple minutes).
 
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Lorenzo

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Not at all. I don't get bored of watching teams win or lose. I just like watching good games with good players. It's the style that I find boring. Even some of the Mavs or Spurs close games just were not that fun to watch (minus the last couple minutes).
what style. last time i recall the mavs don't have one style. they play hard at both ends. they push the ball when the opportunity presents itself. they constantly keep the rebound alive at the offensive end. what's boring about that. They like to run clock in the 4th qtr, but that's typically the recipe for a winning formula. get stops, run the clock down, and get a shot from one of your best offensive players. that's how you kill teams. oh yeah...it's always fun when dirk pulls up for one of those 3's in the 4th in a close game. people seem to always forget that he can do that.
 
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Lorenzo

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Seriously though, I agree that all this Mavs talk can get irritating. Much of it is kept alive by Mavs fans though. I think the Suns fans on this board still post mostly about the Suns. I get what your saying though.
this thread was started by a suns fan right? and you are one of the main suns fans that talks about the mavs. nothing wrong with that IMO.... because i enjoy talking about different teams too. but why are you saying it's irritating if you keep doing it?
 

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One key injury from being average? I don't get this, aren't we supposedly the deepest team in the league? Unless it's to Dirk or Howard (we'd miss the D the most) then we'll be fine, Terry would be a loss but it's not like Stackhouse, Harris, and Buckner can't step up.

Anyway I liked this article, makes me realize I love this team despite it not being flashy or unique. It's just the most well rounded team in the NBA and I wouldn't trade this "boring" record setting season for the old days of Nellie ball with Nash, Dirk, Finley... ugh friggin Walker. It was fun but it didn't get us the job done, and this is working better than that system ever had.
 

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I actually used to like watching the Mavs team especially when it had both Dirk and Nash. I would probably still like the Mavs team despite it being a Conference rival if it weren't for some of their fans talking what I consider smack on this board. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I know that all the Mavs fans are not guilty but a rotten apple or two can taint the barrel. Sad to say, but the only team I almost dislike as much as the Mavs right now is the Lakers but my ire is mainly directed at Kobe. Despite all I still try to like Dirk because I consider him an elite player. Please don't be offended Mavs fans who do not delve into this pettiness.

Also I think regular season games mean very little except for seeding so I hope trash talking on both sides for each team is minimized for fans on both sides after the next Suns/ Mavs game. The results are not conclusive either way except for those fans who would boast. This is very obvious when analysing the results of the Miami team in the playoffs last season. I would also like to say that I do not go to other boards and talk trash about their teams and fans.

Sorry, I just needed to get this off my chest.
 

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I actually used to like watching the Mavs team especially when it had both Dirk and Nash. I would probably still like the Mavs team despite it being a Conference rival if it weren't for some of their fans talking what I consider smack on this board. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I know that all the Mavs fans are not guilty but a rotten apple or two can taint the barrel. Sad to say, but the only team I almost dislike as much as the Mavs right now is the Lakers but my ire is mainly directed at Kobe. Despite all I still try to like Dirk because I consider him an elite player. Please don't be offended Mavs fans who do not delve into this pettiness.

Also I think regular season games mean very little except for seeding so I hope trash talking on both sides for each team is minimized for fans on both sides after the next Suns/ Mavs game. The results are not conclusive either way except for those fans who would boast. This is very obvious when analysing the results of the Miami team in the playoffs last season. I would also like to say that I do not go to other boards and talk trash about their teams and fans.

Sorry, I just needed to get this off my chest.
i agree with you. I try to stay as level headed as possible despite the fact that i'm a huge dallas homer. just because i'm a mavs fan doesn't mean i can't have interesting discussions about the mavs/suns. I love steve nash and i'm glad he has 2 mvp trophies......working on a 3rd. I'm glad i'm in phoenix right now though.....it's fun being a mavs fan living in a great basketball town. Now if i were in S.A. i would probably be in hiding.
 

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i agree with you. I try to stay as level headed as possible despite the fact that i'm a huge dallas homer. just because i'm a mavs fan doesn't mean i can't have interesting discussions about the mavs/suns. I love steve nash and i'm glad he has 2 mvp trophies......working on a 3rd. I'm glad i'm in phoenix right now though.....it's fun being a mavs fan living in a great basketball town. Now if i were in S.A. i would probably be in hiding.

I was just venting.

I used to like the Mavs team and even the excitement Mark Cuban first brought to the NBA. Actually it would have been nice to have a friendly rivalry with the Mavs. I realize in today's world of hype this is probably not possible. Somehow I think these two team are linked somehow by history: Jason Kidd, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Don Nelson's friendship with Cotton and Dirk being a good friend of Nash... and I'm sure there is much, much more. These two teams like to run the floor and both teams are trying to win their first Championship.

I guess naively I believe if Dirk and Nash can be good friends, why can't the fans respect each other?
 
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Covert Rain

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what style. last time i recall the mavs don't have one style. they play hard at both ends. they push the ball when the opportunity presents itself. they constantly keep the rebound alive at the offensive end. what's boring about that. They like to run clock in the 4th qtr, but that's typically the recipe for a winning formula. get stops, run the clock down, and get a shot from one of your best offensive players. that's how you kill teams. oh yeah...it's always fun when dirk pulls up for one of those 3's in the 4th in a close game. people seem to always forget that he can do that.

They don't? Call it what you want. Style no style. The team is boring to watch to most people outside Dallas fans. Nobody is talking about the Mav's formula or how effective it is. It's obviously working. The Spurs have managed to win a couple titles playing a boring brand of basketball. It worked for them. Didn't make them an exciting team to watch and niether are the Mavs.

this thread was started by a suns fan right? and you are one of the main suns fans that talks about the mavs. nothing wrong with that IMO.... because i enjoy talking about different teams too. but why are you saying it's irritating if you keep doing it?

I said most. Just because I comment on the posts doesn't mean I like talking about them. I like countering the Mav fans and messing with them more then anything else. If we never had another Mav thread I wouldn't miss it. I don't mind as much as some but it does get irritating.
 

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They don't? Call it what you want. Style no style. The team is boring to watch to most people outside Dallas fans. Nobody is talking about the Mav's formula or how effective it is. It's obviously working. The Spurs have managed to win a couple titles playing a boring brand of basketball. It worked for them. Didn't make them an exciting team to watch and niether are the Mavs.



I said most. Just because I comment on the posts doesn't mean I like talking about them. I like countering the Mav fans and messing with them more then anything else. If we never had another Mav thread I wouldn't miss it. I don't mind as much as some but it does get irritating.
i feel you. I love watching a lot of nba teams, some more than others. I think there are a handfull of teams that are more exciting to watch when compared to others(obviously dallas and phoenix are 2 of those).
on the flip side the suns haven't been as entertaining as usual lately. I'm sure things will be full throttle come playoff time.
I remember the last game the mavs/suns played. It reminded me of those games dallas had against S.A. in the playoffs last year.
 
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Lorenzo

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I was just venting.

I used to like the Mavs team and even the excitement Mark Cuban first brought to the NBA. Actually it would have been nice to have a friendly rivalry with the Mavs. I realize in today's world of hype this is probably not possible. Somehow I think these two team are linked somehow by history: Jason Kidd, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Don Nelson's friendship with Cotton and Dirk being a good friend of Nash... and I'm sure there is much, much more. These two teams like to run the floor and both teams are trying to win their first Championship.

I guess naively I believe if Dirk and Nash can be good friends, why can't the fans respect each other?
Dirk and steve will be linked forever. they were the best of friends......maybe still.
I respect the suns fans 100%. I went to a playoff game with my son the year before last. and my son was celebrating after dallas won. and all of the suns fans were very nice to us. I know this is just a game and some of your best friends in life can be fans of other teams. My best friend is a 49ers fan.
Having said that, there are those in both cities who don't see it that way. and maybe it's more about fun and games than anything else.
 

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