Can't get behind the mavs...

[TheFallen49]

They don't? Call it what you want. Style no style. The team is boring to watch to most people outside Dallas fans. Nobody is talking about the Mav's formula or how effective it is. It's obviously working. The Spurs have managed to win a couple titles playing a boring brand of basketball. It worked for them. Didn't make them an exciting team to watch and niether are the Mavs.

I bet if this article was posted a few years ago you could easily replace the Mavericks team with the Spurs like you said. A lot of people claimed they were boring and I was one of them shurgging off how good they were, I was far too hyped up about my high offense no defense Mavericks whom I was SURE would beat the Spurs come playoff time ('cuz all we need to do is more score points!')... which btw is why most Mavs fans HATE the Suns, we tried a similar system before and got crapped on for thinking it could work, they were right it didn't work for us despite having great season record but you guys seem to get about half the criticism we were given. It's like we've become the Spurs and you've become us... and the Spurs have become a retirement home.

Anyway having no style plays to our advantage, teams don't know how to prepare for a team that can beat you in so many ways, with the Suns they know whats coming every night (and still can't stop it for some reason). I don't find that boring at all, on any given night a different stat can be the difference maker in the Mavs getting a win.

 

[mribnik]

They don't? Call it what you want. Style no style. The team is boring to watch to most people outside Dallas fans. Nobody is talking about the Mav's formula or how effective it is. It's obviously working. The Spurs have managed to win a couple titles playing a boring brand of basketball. It worked for them. Didn't make them an exciting team to watch and niether are the Mavs.

I bet if this article was posted a few years ago you could easily replace the Mavericks team with the Spurs like you said. A lot of people claimed they were boring and I was one of them shurgging off how good they were, I was far too hyped up about my high offense no defense Mavericks whom I was SURE would beat the Spurs come playoff time ('cuz all we need to do is more score points!')... which btw is why most Mavs fans HATE the Suns, we tried a similar system before and got crapped on for thinking it could work, they were right it didn't work for us despite having great season record but you guys seem to get about half the criticism we were given. It's like we've become the Spurs and you've become us... and the Spurs have become a retirement home.

Anyway having no style plays to our advantage, teams don't know how to prepare for a team that can beat you in so many ways, with the Suns they know whats coming every night (and still can't stop it for some reason). I don't find that boring at all, on any given night a different stat can be the difference maker in the Mavs getting a win.

Those Mavericks played worse defense than the Suns and they lacked a low-post scorer.

Edit: Oh, and their offense wasn't as good either.

 

[Lorenzo]

Those Mavericks played worse defense than the Suns and they lacked a low-post scorer.

Edit: Oh, and their offense wasn't as good either.

no low post scoring........no amare. no defense........that's something these suns share with those mavs.

 

[greensborohill]

He's right. . . this is sooooo boring to watch.

Worst home loss in Lakers history. . . and it was so boring I almost slept through it. Eric Neal is spot on!!

 

[Lorenzo]

He's right. . . this is sooooo boring to watch.

Worst home loss in Lakers history. . . and it was so boring I almost slept through it. Eric Neal is spot on!!

at home.

 

[mribnik]

no low post scoring........no amare. no defense........that's something these suns share with those mavs.

Ok, prove it.

 

[TheFallen49]

Prove it? How about looking at how many points they give up, if they played good defense they would be tearing it up. But you don't, and it shows and EVERY other team knows it's time for stat padding when PHX is in town. And your defense is just as bad as the Mavericks of old. Your offense is better, but I don't think it's going to help when you play absolutely zero defense. I saw the NOK game, why were you guys giving up like three feet to their three point shooters? You won with your style but don't pretend there was defense involved.

 

[myrondizzo]

Prove it? How about looking at how many points they give up, if they played good defense they would be tearing it up. But you don't, and it shows and EVERY other team knows it's time for stat padding when PHX is in town. And your defense is just as bad as the Mavericks of old. Your offense is better, but I don't think it's going to help when you play absolutely zero defense. I saw the NOK game, why were you guys giving up like three feet to their three point shooters? You won with your style but don't pretend there was defense involved.

the ppg is very misleading because of the speed we play. but that has been beat to death so i'll just stop there and say that you are misinformed.

 

[Skkorpion]

In my opinion, the Mavs and Spurs are the two best playoff teams in the NBA right now. On March 11. That can change at any time.

But right now, that's bad for basketball because they've brought back boring-ball. Imagine a finals between Detroit and Dallas. No one will watch outside of Texas and Michigan.

 

[mribnik]

Prove it? How about looking at how many points they give up, if they played good defense they would be tearing it up. But you don't, and it shows and EVERY other team knows it's time for stat padding when PHX is in town. And your defense is just as bad as the Mavericks of old. Your offense is better, but I don't think it's going to help when you play absolutely zero defense. I saw the NOK game, why were you guys giving up like three feet to their three point shooters? You won with your style but don't pretend there was defense involved.

PPG against is a meaningless statistic. If you can't see why the Suns give up the 6th most amount of points while being 14th in the league in FG% against there is no point in discussing this with you.

And good for you, you were able to break down the Suns defense by watching a meaningless game against the Hornets.

Edit: Oh, and while FG% against is better than PPG against it doesn't tell the whole story either. The Suns lead the league in taking charges. No field goals are attempted when you take a charge. Based on PPG against (your statistic used for measuring defense), if any team in the NBA were to take the ball on every offensive possession and use the entire 24 second shot clock, they would have the best defense in the league.

 

[phxrising]

Prove it? How about looking at how many points they give up, if they played good defense they would be tearing it up. But you don't, and it shows and EVERY other team knows it's time for stat padding when PHX is in town. And your defense is just as bad as the Mavericks of old. Your offense is better, but I don't think it's going to help when you play absolutely zero defense. I saw the NOK game, why were you guys giving up like three feet to their three point shooters? You won with your style but don't pretend there was defense involved.

Please define defence. We are much better this year then the last 2 years with this team if you ask me.

 

[TheFallen49]

A meaningless game against NOK that you barely won? Okay... it's not the like Spurs have won 12 straight or anything while your squeaking by the Bobcats and Hornets. Food for thought, there's a lot of ball to play and they are a very tough team to beat at home.

Defense in it's most simple form means: stopping the other team from putting the ball in the basket. Now as you guys have probably 'beaten to death' over on these boards, your pace allows a lot more shots and therefore ppg are apparently a meaningles stat. What I want to know is despite this pace factor, if your defense is as vastly improved compared to the Mavs of old as you claim it is... why aren't you getting any stops and actually allowing the teams to score on these extra possessions? It's like deja vu for me, you guys aren't doing anything special on D that the old Mavs didn't do except have a better squad... and if it works for you fine. But it didn't for us and I saw it first hand, so forgive me if im skeptical about this so called defense because I don't think your squad is THAT much better. The only thing that impresses me are the charges some of your guys take, i have to be positive somewhere in this post.

 

[SO91]

You really can't compare the old Mavs teams to these Suns in terms of offense and defense. While they both scored a lot of points and ran up and down the court, the points came in different ways. The old Mavs were a jump-shooting team, and Dirk was a pick and pop player, while Amare will attack the basket. These Suns are able to go inside, since they possess one of the best low-post scorers in the league. I will admit though that what I've seen lately from this team is not inspiring. They've gotten way too happy with their jump shots, but it's March. They have plenty of time to get it together and play their best basketball.

The Suns will not be known as a defensive juggernaut and they don't need to be, however, they do play decent defense (that is when they play with urgency and maximum effort, which we haven't seen lately). I know I'll never convince a Mavs fan of the things above, and I don't have to. The comparisons between the two supposedly identical styles end at the number of points allowed. Nellie insisted on playing Shawn freaking Bradly for crying out loud. The reasoning behind it still escapes me, as he didn't provide the defense of a 7 footer, or an outstanding offensive game.

 

[mribnik]

A meaningless game against NOK that you barely won? Okay... it's not the like Spurs have won 12 straight or anything while your squeaking by the Bobcats and Hornets. Food for thought, there's a lot of ball to play and they are a very tough team to beat at home.

Defense in it's most simple form means: stopping the other team from putting the ball in the basket. Now as you guys have probably 'beaten to death' over on these boards, your pace allows a lot more shots and therefore ppg are apparently a meaningles stat. What I want to know is despite this pace factor, if your defense is as vastly improved compared to the Mavs of old as you claim it is... why aren't you getting any stops and actually allowing the teams to score on these extra possessions? It's like deja vu for me, you guys aren't doing anything special on D that the old Mavs didn't do except have a better squad... and if it works for you fine. But it didn't for us and I saw it first hand, so forgive me if im skeptical about this so called defense because I don't think your squad is THAT much better. The only thing that impresses me are the charges some of your guys take, i have to be positive somewhere in this post.

LOL. Why is it that you think the Suns aren't getting stops on those extra possessions? In terms of points given up per 100 possessions, the Suns give up 106 points. You know how many teams give up less? 9. The Suns give up less points per 100 possessions than all but 9 teams in the entire league (Spurs, Magic, Pacers, Rockets, Hornets, Pistons, Dallas, Cleveland, Chicago). Coincidentally, these teams are known for their defense. There you go, that's what the Suns do with those extra possessions.

82games.com if you'd like to check for yourself.

Edit: Differentials are also a good way to check how a team defends relative to the style they play. If you check, you'll see that the Suns compare favorably.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...nba&avg=pg&split=567&season=2007&seasontype=2

 

[azirish]

The Suns played almost two months without KT, which certainly hurt their defensive stats. Somehow, the Suns have only dropped to third in point differential (.5 ppg lower than the Mavs).

The Suns are average when it comes to opponents shooting percentage at 45.6% which is 14th in the league. The Mavs are somewhat better at #9 with their opponents shooting 44.8%. Good, but hardly in the class of Houston at 42.5% or Chicago at 43.5%.

Dallas is 8th in defending the three at 34.7%, but that is not hugely better than the Suns at 34.9%.

One of the more confusing aspects of the game is that teams which foul a lot appear to have good defenses because they don't give up high percentage layups. But not giving up layups does not mean not giving up points. The Mavs have given up 1590 free throws compared to 1436 by the Suns.

BTW, even if the Suns are not as good defensively and on the boards, there is little doubt the Suns are a better offensive team.

110.05 ppg to the Mavs 100.38
49.3% shooting compared to the Mavs 46.6%
40.3% for three compared to the Mavs 38.1%
26.03 assists per game to the Mavs 20.11

Does it matter? Right now the Mavs are playing well and the Suns are struggling as their injured players are rounding back into shape. But take away the period when Nash was injured and the Suns record would likely be very close to the Mavs.

 

[greensborohill]

The Suns played almost two months without KT, which certainly hurt their defensive stats. Somehow, the Suns have only dropped to third in point differential (.5 ppg lower than the Mavs).

The Suns are average when it comes to opponents shooting percentage at 45.6% which is 14th in the league. The Mavs are somewhat better at #9 with their opponents shooting 44.8%. Good, but hardly in the class of Houston at 42.5% or Chicago at 43.5%.

Dallas is 8th in defending the three at 34.7%, but that is not hugely better than the Suns at 34.9%.

One of the more confusing aspects of the game is that teams which foul a lot appear to have good defenses because they don't give up high percentage layups. But not giving up layups does not mean not giving up points. The Mavs have given up 1590 free throws compared to 1436 by the Suns.

BTW, even if the Suns are not as good defensively and on the boards, there is little doubt the Suns are a better offensive team.

110.05 ppg to the Mavs 100.38
49.3% shooting compared to the Mavs 46.6%
40.3% for three compared to the Mavs 38.1%
26.03 assists per game to the Mavs 20.11

Does it matter? Right now the Mavs are playing well and the Suns are struggling as their injured players are rounding back into shape. But take away the period when Nash was injured and the Suns record would likely be very close to the Mavs.

Stop being a John Hollinger. . . sometimes stats are just stats. You can watch the games and know that the Mavs are well ahead of the Suns in defense. Do you think the Suns could have blown out the Lakers on the road like that? They barely beat them at home!

 

[Covert Rain]

Stop being a John Hollinger. . . sometimes stats are just stats. You can watch the games and know that the Mavs are well ahead of the Suns in defense. Do you think the Suns could have blown out the Lakers on the road like that? They barely beat them at home!

That's funny greensborohill. You seem to bring up stats when it works in your favor for your arguments. So another words Stats are good when they are in favor of the Mavs. However, when they are not "stats are just stats".

Yes I think the Suns are capable of blowing out the Lakers. What's your point exactly? Comparing how one team plays against another means nothing. You lost to Golden State and the Wizards, two teams that we have blown out this season. Does that mean anything? Were the Mavs incapable of blowing out those teams at the times of those losses? No. Pointless argument.

 

[Hoopy Dunkalot]

That's funny greensborohill. You seem to bring up stats when it works in your favor for your arguments. So another words Stats are good when they are in favor of the Mavs. However, when they are not "stats are just stats".

Yes I think the Suns are capable of blowing out the Lakers. What's your point exactly? Comparing how one team plays against another means nothing. You lost to Golden State and the Wizards, two teams that we have blown out this season. Does that mean anything? Were the Mavs incapable of blowing out those teams at the times of those losses? No. Pointless argument.

It's funny to read how terrified ya'll are of our beloved Mavs. I can see all of the excuse posts on Thursday morning already. And I will be there, waiting, lurking...

 

[Covert Rain]

It's funny to read how terrified ya'll are of our beloved Mavs. I can see all of the excuse posts on Thursday morning already. And I will be there, waiting, lurking...

We are terrified? Are you serious? You Mav fans are the ones that are coming here to post. You Mav fans are the ones posting articles and stats trying to convince everyone that the Mavs are for real. You guys get defensive at every turn and we are scared?



If anything you Mavs fans are scared you guys are not for real and will be defined by one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA finals history. Please lurk all you want come Thursday. Just remember to keep lurkin come playoff time when the Mavs choke again.

 

[greensborohill]

We are terrified? Are you serious? You Mav fans are the ones that are coming here to post. You Mav fans are the ones posting articles and stats trying to convince everyone that the Mavs are for real. You guys get defensive at every turn and we are scared?



If anything you Mavs fans are scared you guys are not for real and will be defined by one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA finals history. Please lurk all you want come Thursday. Just remember to keep lurkin come playoff time when the Mavs choke again.

I like how you bring up last season. . . kind like the 17 point lead you let slip away in game six of the WCF at home. . . that was good stuff!! THAT was a choke job. . kinda like the refs put on the Mavs in the Finals. But atleast we got there.

 

[Covert Rain]

I like how you bring up last season. . . kind like the 17 point lead you let slip away in game six of the WCF at home. . . that was good stuff!! THAT was a choke job. . kinda like the refs put on the Mavs in the Finals. But atleast we got there.

Now it was the Refs who blew it for the Mavs?!?!?!?!

That's what I call an excuse. I don't think you ever read where a Suns fans blamed the refs for blowing that 17 point lead. Nobody remembers the runner up. Again, Mavs fans are desperate for everybody to believe your legit. Like I said defensive.

 

[greensborohill]

Now it was the Refs who blew it for the Mavs?!?!?!?!

That's what I call an excuse. I don't think you ever read where a Suns fans blamed the refs for blowing that 17 point lead. Nobody remembers the runner up. Again, Mavs fans are desperate for everybody to believe your legit. Like I said defensive.

Just thought I'd throw one out there since Suns fans are so used to making them. . . that way we can relate better. Injuries right? That's your favorite? Then there's the "we only lost on a last second shot", and the "we had too many unforced turnovers."

Atleast when I say the refs were the cause of a loss, I have Mcgrady and Phil Jackson to back it up. Mavs fans weren't the only ones see phantom fouls.

You guys ain't won jack, so you should just shut it.

 

[greensborohill]

The WC Title and 52-9 record w/ a 2-0 record against the supposed second best team is enough to prove the Mavs are legit. What have the Suns done to prove it? Make excuses?

 

[Covert Rain]

Just thought I'd throw one out there since Suns fans are so used to making them. . . that way we can relate better. Injuries right? That's your favorite? Then there's the "we only lost on a last second shot", and the "we had too many unforced turnovers."
Atleast when I say the refs were the cause of a loss, I have Mcgrady and Phil Jackson to back it up. Mavs fans weren't the only ones see phantom fouls.

You guys ain't won jack, so you should just shut it.

OMG. This is getting more comical by the moment. You guys had one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA finals history. Not even the Refs can take credit for that. However, I stand corrected because Phil and T-Mac say so. You guys got whacked. Plain and simple.

So How many titles does Dallas have? The same amount as the Suns last time I checked. Go back to Dallas-Mavs.com forums where you can drink your .

The WC Title and 52-9 record w/ a 2-0 record against the supposed second best team is enough to prove the Mavs are legit. What have the Suns done to prove it? Make excuses?

Really because last time I checked teams are measured by how many NBA titles they win not conference championships or regular season records. Keep telling yourself your legit if it makes you feel better.

PS The Suns have won two WCF championships. The Suns are still one up on you last time I checked. So what have the Suns won? Well one more then the Mavs.

 

[SO91]

Dude what the hell is wrong with you? Why is every freaking Mavs thread turned into a smack-like thread. Leave it alone already, even if it's them that start this crap