Captain America: Civil War

[NJCardFan]

Finally saw this today. Good movie. Black Panther and Spidey were awesome. I didn't like the Antman movie, but thought a much lesser dose of Antman was perfect for the MCU.

Overall, I'd probably put this as #4 in the MCU behind Guardians, Avengers1 and Iron man. Maybe Hulk, but only cause I'm a bit biased towards Hulk.

Anyone else wonder if there is a correlation between Buckys 'homecoming' and Spideys 'homecoming'? Homecoming was one of the words to activate the Winter soldier.

I would actually rank this behind Winter Soldier as well as those you mentioned. Hate to say it, but I didn't see this as better, or as better as some are making it out to be, than BvS. If we're strictly talking action then yes it was better but BvS had a better, deeper story. The only thing that was way better was I got to look at Scarlett Johansson and Elizabeth Olsen and as much as I love Amy Adams, she doesn't hold a candle to those beauties.

 

[GatorAZ]

I would actually rank this behind Winter Soldier as well as those you mentioned. Hate to say it, but I didn't see this as better, or as better as some are making it out to be, than BvS. If we're strictly talking action then yes it was better but BvS had a better, deeper story. The only thing that was way better was I got to look at Scarlett Johansson and Elizabeth Olsen and as much as I love Amy Adams, she doesn't hold a candle to those beauties.

Glad I'm not the only one not buying this as an epic film. Should've been called Captain America: "Friendly Spat". The general likability of the characters is why this was an entertaining movie for me. I also think ppl are exaggerating it based on the underwhelming BvS but maybe that's just the cynic in me.

 

[Stout]

I would actually rank this behind Winter Soldier as well as those you mentioned. Hate to say it, but I didn't see this as better, or as better as some are making it out to be, than BvS. If we're strictly talking action then yes it was better but BvS had a better, deeper story. The only thing that was way better was I got to look at Scarlett Johansson and Elizabeth Olsen and as much as I love Amy Adams, she doesn't hold a candle to those beauties.

You don't think THIS movie is better than BvS? Or that the quality is in the same galaxy, let alone close? That BvS had a better, deeper story? Please, attempt to quantify this, because HUH? When:

Spoiler

The big twist in BvS relied on a hackneyed, recycled twenty-minute abortion of a movie opening just to set up someone saying a single name, while the big twist in Civil War was based on a villain masterminding the internal breakup of the Avengers without a dragging plot? Without wasting tons of screen time on a detail that only needed thirty seconds to reveal? Without contriving an overly simplistic moment of 'ooh, what a coincydinc'?

And that's just ONE of the problems in BvS. How many dream sequences were in Civil War as opposed to BvS? How many dream sequences WITHIN dream sequences? Do those make for a deeper story?

I'm sorry. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I happen to think yours is loco, my friend. I mean, wow, just wow. I mean...holy crap, wow.

 

[Cheesebeef]

saw it again last night... that movie was awesome. And I don't know what people wanted more from the villain. His plan was pretty brilliant, came from a place of emotion and didn't have to deal with destroying the entire world for once, not to mention the actor's performance was pretty damn good.

 

[Covert Rain]

saw it again last night... that movie was awesome. And I don't know what people wanted more from the villain. His plan was pretty brilliant, came from a place of emotion and didn't have to deal with destroying the entire world for once, not to mention the actor's performance was pretty damn good.

For me the problem wasn't with the plan or the execution of the plan. That was brilliant. It was the execution of the character (not the actor). This probably matters to more to comic book fans but that is big part of this audience. Zemo was a way more complex and interesting character in the MU. Marvel has for the most part done a great job translating characters for the MCU. Zemo was re-imagined as this regular guy but he tracks down Hydra, secret facilities etc.....doing it all on his own? There is so much wrong here.

Marvel just seems to like throwing villains and they often they feel like afterthoughts to me. Zemo is in the top 5 favorite of Marvel villains. Not the Joker but imagine DC taking a character like Brainiac, Two Face or the Penguin and in a DC movie the only resemblance they had to the character was a name.....and then asking "what more could people want"? DC fans would pitch a fit.

 

[Cheesebeef]

For me the problem wasn't with the plan or the execution of the plan. That was brilliant. It was the execution of the character (not the actor). This probably matters to more to comic book fans but that is big part of this audience. Zemo was a way more complex and interesting character in the MU. Marvel has for the most part done a great job translating characters for the MCU. Zemo was re-imagined as this regular guy but he tracks down Hydra, secret facilities etc.....doing it all on his own? There is so much wrong here.

Marvel just seems to like throwing villains and they often they feel like afterthoughts to me. Zemo is in the top 5 favorite of Marvel villains. Not the Joker but imagine DC taking a character like Brainiac, Two Face or the Penguin and in a DC movie the only resemblance they had to the character was a name.....and then asking "what more could people want"? DC fans would pitch a fit.

Ah... So, it's more of a fanboy criticism. And that's not to be derogative. You have different expectations because of your fandom and that makes. if the guy's name was Flanders, you would have liked him?

For the person who just loves these movies, I thought he was one of the better villains in the universe so far. Not Loki level, but as far as humans go, really solid.

 

[Chaplin]

For the person who just loves these movies, I thought he was one of the better villains in the universe so far. Not Loki level, but as far as humans go, really solid.

Solid because he had a good plan and was played by a good actor doesn't seem to be a good reason for me. He was simply boring. Great plan, but boring. Like 90% of Marvel's villains.

 

[cardncubfan]

For me the problem wasn't with the plan or the execution of the plan. That was brilliant. It was the execution of the character (not the actor). This probably matters to more to comic book fans but that is big part of this audience. Zemo was a way more complex and interesting character in the MU. Marvel has for the most part done a great job translating characters for the MCU. Zemo was re-imagined as this regular guy but he tracks down Hydra, secret facilities etc.....doing it all on his own? There is so much wrong here.

Marvel just seems to like throwing villains and they often they feel like afterthoughts to me. Zemo is in the top 5 favorite of Marvel villains. Not the Joker but imagine DC taking a character like Brainiac, Two Face or the Penguin and in a DC movie the only resemblance they had to the character was a name.....and then asking "what more could people want"? DC fans would pitch a fit.

Kind of explained here.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-...Civil-War-From-How-He-Used-Comics-129967.html

 

[Covert Rain]

Ah... So, it's more of a fanboy criticism. And that's not to be derogative. You have different expectations because of your fandom and that makes. if the guy's name was Flanders, you would have liked him?

For the person who just loves these movies, I thought he was one of the better villains in the universe so far. Not Loki level, but as far as humans go, really solid.

Not exactly. Part of it was what Chap indicated which was I thought as well the character was bland and not interesting. So even if his name was Flanders I still wouldn't have put him up there with the best like you did. His character felt like filler for the gaps where the Avengers were not fighting. Just my two cents but Marvel has had a real problem here.

I admit though...it does put salt in the wound when you know what great character Zemo is and what they did with him in this film. Part of the problem is people are not familiar with as many Marvel villains as say DC IMO. So, I bet even the average fan would have had a problem if one of the DC villains I mentioned above received the same treatment. I get that the original character was in Cap's original timeline but his character was never introduced so I don't buy that is character had to be totally different then the comics...just updated.

 

[Stout]

For me the problem wasn't with the plan or the execution of the plan. That was brilliant. It was the execution of the character (not the actor). This probably matters to more to comic book fans but that is big part of this audience. Zemo was a way more complex and interesting character in the MU. Marvel has for the most part done a great job translating characters for the MCU. Zemo was re-imagined as this regular guy but he tracks down Hydra, secret facilities etc.....doing it all on his own? There is so much wrong here.

Marvel just seems to like throwing villains and they often they feel like afterthoughts to me. Zemo is in the top 5 favorite of Marvel villains. Not the Joker but imagine DC taking a character like Brainiac, Two Face or the Penguin and in a DC movie the only resemblance they had to the character was a name.....and then asking "what more could people want"? DC fans would pitch a fit.

But he wasn't just a regular guy...he was a former member of a Sokovian death squad.

Ah... So, it's more of a fanboy criticism. And that's not to be derogative. You have different expectations because of your fandom and that makes. if the guy's name was Flanders, you would have liked him?

For the person who just loves these movies, I thought he was one of the better villains in the universe so far. Not Loki level, but as far as humans go, really solid.

Yeah, some people can't separate the comics from the movie--and I've been guilty of the same with certain books and movies. My buddy, whose favorite super hero of all time is Captain America, absolutely hated Winter Soldier.

 

[Covert Rain]

But he wasn't just a regular guy...he was a former member of a Sokovian death squad.

That's still a regular guy with military training. Zemo in the comics was different. He was a brilliant scientist and marksman. He aged slower than everyone else and through different iterations and inventions had varying abilities. He wasn't a character simply bent on revenge for killing his family which is really cliche. His story was much more interesting when it came to his son and wife which again shows a lack of development with his character.

Actually, if they made him closer to the original Zemo that would have explained how he accomplished what he did solo in the film all by himself.

 

[Stout]

That's still a regular guy with military training. Zemo in the comics was different. He was a brilliant scientist and marksman. He aged slower than everyone else and through different iterations and inventions had varying abilities. He wasn't a character simply bent on revenge for killing his family which is really cliche. His story was much more interesting when it came to his son and wife which again shows a lack of development with his character.

Actually, if they made him closer to the original Zemo that would have explained how he accomplished what he did solo in the film all by himself.

1--And how do they do all of that without completely changing the movie?

2--I found him compelling BECAUSE he was a spec forces guy who, through patience and perseverance, pulled this off.

It's a disconnect between comics and movies, and what can translate well. What you describe above is either the central plot of its own movie, or an extremely hokey supervillain wedged in.

Again, I understand where you're coming from. I just think it's your love of the comics compromising your view of the movie. No harm in it at all, either way

 

[Covert Rain]

1--And how do they do all of that without completely changing the movie?



2--I found him compelling BECAUSE he was a spec forces guy who, through patience and perseverance, pulled this off.



It's a disconnect between comics and movies, and what can translate well. What you describe above is either the central plot of its own movie, or an extremely hokey supervillain wedged in.



Again, I understand where you're coming from. I just think it's your love of the comics compromising your view of the movie. No harm in it at all, either way

To me there is a difference between changing a costume or slightly changing an origin story. Question. Would you care if in a DC movie the Penguin or Two Face or The Riddler were in name only and didn't resemble the characters?

 

[Stout]

To me there is a difference between changing a costume or slightly changing an origin story. Question. Would you care if in a DC movie the Penguin or Two Face or The Riddler were in name only and didn't resemble the characters?

Sure I would, because they're iconic characters to mainstream viewers; Zemo isn't. Sorry, but I'm a nerd, just not a comic book nerd. I've known who the above-named villains were since I was young; I haven't heard of Zemo until I watched the movie. He's known to comic book readers, but not the general public. It is what it is.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure I would, because they're iconic characters to mainstream viewers; Zemo isn't. Sorry, but I'm a nerd, just not a comic book nerd. I've known who the above-named villains were since I was young; I haven't heard of Zemo until I watched the movie. He's known to comic book readers, but not the general public. It is what it is.

Which is the point I made above. I think the problem is DC villains are more popular. However, Zemo was rated the 4th best villain in the MU. Either way I still agree with Chap. His portrayal despite this was boring and bland.

 

[NJCardFan]

Spoiler

Am I the only one pissed that they killed off Crossbones?

 

[Covert Rain]

Spoiler

Am I the only one pissed that they killed off Crossbones?

Spoiler

Not even in the slightest. Several of my friends who love Marvel have said the same. Wasted opportunity not only in the movie but reinforces my point that in the MCU they don't give villains the attention they deserve. He was opening scene fodder. The character deserved more than that.

 

[NJCardFan]

Glad I'm not the only one not buying this as an epic film. Should've been called Captain America: "Friendly Spat". The general likability of the characters is why this was an entertaining movie for me. I also think ppl are exaggerating it based on the underwhelming BvS but maybe that's just the cynic in me.

I wouldn't call it a friendly spat and they did keep to the comic pretty closely(with minor differences) and like I said, Elizabeth Olsen is an uber hottie, I just didn't see it as the best movie of all comic movies like some are making it out to be. Good? Definitely. But it ran a little too long and the story lacked pace as it dragged at points and I think there were just too many characters. This used to be a knock against the early Batman movies. But all in all I enjoyed it.

You don't think THIS movie is better than BvS? Or that the quality is in the same galaxy, let alone close? That BvS had a better, deeper story? Please, attempt to quantify this, because HUH? When:

Spoiler

The big twist in BvS relied on a hackneyed, recycled twenty-minute abortion of a movie opening just to set up someone saying a single name, while the big twist in Civil War was based on a villain masterminding the internal breakup of the Avengers without a dragging plot? Without wasting tons of screen time on a detail that only needed thirty seconds to reveal? Without contriving an overly simplistic moment of 'ooh, what a coincydinc'?

And that's just ONE of the problems in BvS. How many dream sequences were in Civil War as opposed to BvS? How many dream sequences WITHIN dream sequences? Do those make for a deeper story?

I'm sorry. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I happen to think yours is loco, my friend. I mean, wow, just wow. I mean...holy crap, wow.

Let me get this straight. By reading what you're saying here, you're the only one who's allowed to have an opinion? Only yours counts? You think one way and those who think otherwise aren't too smart? But I'll play along:

The dream sequences, albeit overdone, played into Batman/Bruce's emotions as to his fears of Superman. Did we need 3? No but they didn't ruin it for me. As for what made it deeper was the emotion. Seeing Bruce lose his family(was a lot better than the 1989 Batman), Bruce seeing that little girl looking for her mother who was killed thanks to Superman and Zod's fight(sort of the same vein as CW with collateral damage) as well as the guy who loses his legs. Batman believes Supes is too powerful and is capable of tremendous destruction, even in doing good. That's just the one emotional aspect. However, they killed off in a movie the most iconic superhero of all time, bar none. Yes he's going to come back but they killed off Superman and the subsequent funerals were very emotional. Can't get much deeper than that so, yes, that is much better than "I'm pissed at you because you won't acquiesce then I find out you knew how my parents died and didn't tell me so I'm going to kill you" storyline. This is strictly my opinion and I don't care if you agree. Contrary of what you might think, you're not the be all that end all of movies.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wouldn't call it a friendly spat and they did keep to the comic pretty closely(with minor differences) and like I said, Elizabeth Olsen is an uber hottie, I just didn't see it as the best movie of all comic movies like some are making it out to be. Good? Definitely. But it ran a little too long and the story lacked pace as it dragged at points and I think there were just too many characters. This used to be a knock against the early Batman movies. But all in all I enjoyed it.



Let me get this straight. By reading what you're saying here, you're the only one who's allowed to have an opinion? Only yours counts? You think one way and those who think otherwise aren't too smart? But I'll play along:

The dream sequences, albeit overdone, played into Batman/Bruce's emotions as to his fears of Superman. Did we need 3? No but they didn't ruin it for me. As for what made it deeper was the emotion. Seeing Bruce lose his family(was a lot better than the 1989 Batman), Bruce seeing that little girl looking for her mother who was killed thanks to Superman and Zod's fight(sort of the same vein as CW with collateral damage) as well as the guy who loses his legs. Batman believes Supes is too powerful and is capable of tremendous destruction, even in doing good. That's just the one emotional aspect. However, they killed off in a movie the most iconic superhero of all time, bar none. Yes he's going to come back but they killed off Superman and the subsequent funerals were very emotional. Can't get much deeper than that so, yes, that is much better than "I'm pissed at you because you won't acquiesce then I find out you knew how my parents died and didn't tell me so I'm going to kill you" storyline. This is strictly my opinion and I don't care if you agree. Contrary of what you might think, you're not the be all that end all of movies.

you were really emotional about the Superman funerals? That played like such utter schmuckbait to me. I couldn't buy any of that for even a milli-second because I know he's not dead. I also couldn't buy WHY he needed to sacrifice himself which lead to the funeral. Why not have Wonder Woman jam the massive amount of Kryptonite into Doomsday? She was handling herself better then anyone.

 

[Stout]

you were really emotional about the Superman funerals? That played like such utter schmuckbait to me. I couldn't buy any of that for even a milli-second because I know he's not dead. I also couldn't buy WHY he needed to sacrifice himself which lead to the funeral. Why not have Wonder Woman jam the massive amount of Kryptonite into Doomsday? She was handling herself better then anyone.

+1, Especially given the giveaway that he's already coming back at the end. Yawn.

NJ, are you a big time DC over Marvel homer? Or is Supes/BM your all-time favorite? I mean, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to take that away. I merely think you are incredibly wrong, and must be one of about 1/100th of the population who feels this way. Maybe even less. You're defending the regurgitated opening to that movie, and even more, holding it up as part of the reason it was a deeper movie, which is mind-boggling to me. Now, I'm searching for the cause. Before, I simply couldn't leave a statement like you made go without reply, is all--without a strong reply, as you noted

 

[Zeno]

you were really emotional about the Superman funerals? That played like such utter schmuckbait to me. I couldn't buy any of that for even a milli-second because I know he's not dead. I also couldn't buy WHY he needed to sacrifice himself which lead to the funeral. Why not have Wonder Woman jam the massive amount of Kryptonite into Doomsday? She was handling herself better then anyone.

I am 100% in agreement with Cheese here, BVS was an unfortunate waste of a movie--it could have been so much better.

Capt America however told a compelling story and introduced characters in a way that seemed to flow properly.

I liked how they handled spider-man, they didn't need him to explain his origin, the audience KNEW what he was talking about without him directly saying his back story when he was talking to Stark in his room.

I love the dork that Paul Rudd's Antman is, he just seems like the "everyman" guy who fell in to the super hero business completely by accident and is having fun. He had good chemistry with the group, which I wondered how they were going to pull off.

 

[oaken1]

I am 100% in agreement with Cheese here, BVS was an unfortunate waste of a movie--it could have been so much better.

Capt America however told a compelling story and introduced characters in a way that seemed to flow properly.

I liked how they handled spider-man, they didn't need him to explain his origin, the audience KNEW what he was talking about without him directly saying his back story when he was talking to Stark in his room.

I love the dork that Paul Rudd's Antman is, he just seems like the "everyman" guy who fell in to the super hero business completely by accident and is having fun. He had good chemistry with the group, which I wondered how they were going to pull off.

I liked how they did spidey,...and now another back story movie is not necessary...

they should have explored Starks psychosis a bit though...not to the extent that BvS did with Wayne...... but the entire premise of civil war...was a 180 opposite of who tony stark has always been...he has been fighting to keep the government from getting control of the iron man project from day one...and now because he screwed up with ultron,...he is afraid to be in charge of himself..... but...it never occurred to him that the government was never going to be in charge of his tinkering and researching...which is how ultron came to be in the first place...it was all about fear for stark...and part of it may have been the fear that he would be imprisoned for unleashing ultron on the planet.... Tony Stark got scared and turned into his daddy

 

[Covert Rain]

I liked how they handled spider-man, they didn't need him to explain his origin, the audience KNEW what he was talking about without him directly saying his back story when he was talking to Stark in his room.

I love the dork that Paul Rudd's Antman is, he just seems like the "everyman" guy who fell in to the super hero business completely by accident and is having fun. He had good chemistry with the group, which I wondered how they were going to pull off.

Agree. Marvel "got" what Sony did not. They kept rebooting over and over and while fans kept wondering why. Marvel proved you can introduce the character without completely starting over. They didn't treat the audience like they were dumb and gave them credit for knowing the backstory.

In terms of Antman....very underrated character IMO and the thing I love is that he is just a regular guy trying to do right by his daughter and turn his life around. I love the way Paul Rudd delivers the character.

In terms of BvS. I still maintain it was nowhere near as bad ad the critics made it out to be. Ben was great. Gal was great. The story was blah. The stupid dream sequences were overkill (especially the middle one in the desert which could have been completely cut). The movie was entertaining to me but only because I think Ben saved it from completely sinking. Who would of thunk that?

 

[Bert]

Thought this was really good. Probably not as great as a lot of people seem to think but to each their own. Dont get me wrong, I left smiling and saying it was good, I just wasn't in the BEST MOVIE EVER boat that some seem to be. It would have been great if not for ScarJo and her terrible acting! (haha just kidding Stout, she was fine)

There were lots of little touches that I really liked. Like how Black Panther basically made no sound when he ran, he always had a soft paw kindof sound when he moved, which was really cool. He was an awesome character and I'll be excited to see that movie.

For me and my kids, Spidey and Antman completely stole the show.

"Who are you?" lol So great.

I loved the actual correct representation of Spidey basically being a happy go lucky teenager who is having a blast being a superhero. Not a emotionally underdeveloped, emo, manic depressive who walks around having an existential crisis about whether or not to be Spiderman for 3 films, and then an additional 2 films. LoL They took it so far with Toby that he was literally wearing black by the 3rd film. Please, no more dark and brooding spidey, let the kid have fun like a kid with superpowers would! Obviously there will be drama, but Spidey is deeper than a character who literally ONLY cares about his relationship with his girlfriend like he was represented in the first 5 films... Before every spidey movie I say; hey, I bet his girlfriend gets into a tight spot and he spends the entire last hour of the film trying to save her! Shocker!

And yes Oaken!!! Please Marvel, dont make the same mistake DC did when you do the next spidey movie with this new kid. Please dont do an entire origin movie for spiderman, again, again... We know, he got bit by a spider and now he has superpowers, we've seen it, twice, please just move on with the story!

 

[Shaggy]

I liked it. I think I liked Winter Soldier better but it was a good movie. Great plot, but was disappointed that there weren't as many funny parts as they usually have. Panther and the new Spidey will be great to see in the future. Glad Sony allowed him to come back.