Cardinal Tough Year II Offense

Mitch

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Last year the Cardinals realized that if they are going to compete once again for the NFC West Championship, they had better buckle up their chinstraps and start matching the toughness the 49ers bring to the field.

The Seahawks and Rams have been arriving at the same realization---as the Seahawks have been stressing a power running game and an aggressive attack-oriented press defense, and the Rams have hired one of the toughest head coaches (Jeff Fisher) in the NFL whose defensive roots go back to Buddy Ryan and his all-out assault on offenses and offensive coordinators (remember when Buddy tried to land a right hook on Kevin Gilbride?).

But---the bellwether team for toughness in the NFC West is the 49ers---they bring it full bore and you had better match it, or they will rub your face in it.

What we saw last year was quite an amazing transformation---the Cardinals, despite an awful 2-6 start started manifesting unparalleled toughness in that they showed up to hit people for every one of the last 8 games. Once known for taking weeks off---these Cardinals did not. It was the most consistently sustained effort and toughness the Cardinals have put into an eight game stretch since they arrived in Arizona.

The reward was a 6-2 second half of the season record, which included a three-game sweep of the NFC West rivals over the last 6 weeks---and first time wins versus SF in a few years and over Pete Carroll in his previous three games versus Arizona.

Now for a look at this year's personnel and how it applies to Cardinal Tough Year II:

QB

John Skelton---because of his toughness---will emerge as the QB as early as week one. Yes, he certainly needs to start games more efficiently. But he has a command of the pocket that the coaches emphasize---and he was a big part of the 6-2 momentum that the team wishes to carry over into this season. Psychologically, to go back to Kolb will be a reminder of how the season started last year, and the coaches know the team needs to start winning this year straight out of the gate.

Kevin Kolb---hard to imagine that after suffering a season-ending concussion that continued to ail him for over seven weeks that he will be able to overcome his pocket jitters. If he does, then Kolb deserves a world of credit---because he no longer has any financial incentive to produce, as he has made well over $30M in guaranteed money between his Eagle and Cardinal contracts the last three years. Kolb seems like a prideful guy---he will try hard---but physical toughness is an inherent quality---and one that is very difficult to manufacture.

Rich Bartel---he too has shown happy feet in the pocket---so one has to wonder. Like Kolb, he can be accurate in the short and intermediate areas. And he's a solid preparer.

Ryan Lindsey---this kid plays tough---he's not timid at all. But he now plays in an offense where he can throw for a higher percentage, and I think he will surprise us and be in the mix for the #2 job next year.

RB

Beanie Wells---proved how tough he can be last season. He started delivering the blows instead of taking them. The problem is his high running style---for two reasons: (1) he doesn't make people miss, so he's constantly absorbing contact; (2) his great stiffarm can't always prevent him from getting hit in his knees, which are his Achilles heels. He also needs to show he can block and catch consistently well. Not sure about him holding up, or about him being the right fit, style-wise for this offense. But---he's tough and that's a great start.

Ryan Williams---has been working his tail off to get back to full health. The question will be whether this injury will slow him down the way his hamstring injury in college did. He was not quite the same runner as he was the year before. For now he might have to try to thrive in spot duty---and his uptempo style is a good fit for the offense.

LaRod Stephens-Howling---this kid has it all, everything the offense needs in a rushing and receiving RB except durability---and that's a big except. The offense needs quick to the hole RBs who can catch and LSH is excellent in both areas. If he was durable---he would be the starting RB on this team. But because he is so exceptional on STs---it puts the coaches in a tough spot as to how much to run him with the offense. This kid is fearless, despite his diminutive size.

Alfonso Smith---the wild card here, especially if he learns to acquire greater body control and the ability to elude the first tackler. He runs like a rocket straight ahead, but he loses his feet. He can catch too. He plays hard and tough. He's a fit. I just worry that they are going to run him into the ground in the 5 pre-season games, seeing as the first three on the depth chart will be used very sparingly...and there's not much depth behind him. Javarris James could be a short yardage RB and may need to be. William Powell is another small RB with scoots.

Therefore, don't be surprised if a big contributor at RB comes in a trade or waiver wire pickup. The odds on that? 50/50 at this point?

FB

Anthony Sherman---look for him to be the blocking back and safety valve receiver in passing situations, in addition to remaining a strong force in the running game. This kid is tough. The coaches will like Jared Crank---he's a good one---and could excel on STs---but there may not be much wiggle room for a #2 FB to make the roster.

LT

Levi Brown---a consummate mauler in the running game who caves in his side of the defensive line, especially in the red zone. Improved from being an erratic pass protector to being solid and dependable over the last 8 games. This guy is tough and workmanlike, no question about it. D'Anthony Batiste is the short term sub here. Nate Potter---long term.

LG

Daryn Colledge---played with flair last year--is very solid and competitive---a little error prone at times, but was less so the more comfortable he became with the offense. Short term sub---D'Anthony Batiste. Long term---Senio Kelemete.

C

Lyle Sendlein---this guy has always been part of the solution not the problem. Mentally tough and physically sound. Nothing spectacular---just steady and workmanlike. Short term sub: Adam Snyder. Long term---Ryan Bartholomew or Scott Wedige.

RG

Adam Snyder---played very well and tough versus Darnell Dockett and the Cardinals last year. You could see why Dockett would have endorsed him. Tips off running plays, though, with his stance---which needs to be camouflaged better. Solid in pass pro. Again, workmanlike and highly competitive. Short term sub---D'Anthony Batiste (possibly Chris Stewart). Long term---Ryan DeChristopher.

RT

Jeremy Bridges---get the job done. Doesn't look pretty at times, but he plays with a strong will and resolve. For now he starts until Bobbie Massie is ready. Massie has all the physical gifts one could want for the RT position---and it's where he played in college. Not sure he will be able to be comfortable mentally early on, but here's where a 5th pre-season game could really help. D.J. Young is in the mix here as well and could make the roster in the next year or two.

TE

Jeff King---Todd Heap---Rob Housler---Jim Dray. They all bring value---Housler will be featured in the passing game and if he starts perfecting his routes and his timing, look out! King is tough and steady. Heap needs to stay healthy because if he does he might catch 40-50 balls this year, asnd be a huge factor. Dray is tough and good on STs. Sleeper: Steven Skelton. He's going to open some eyes this summer...as will Martel Webb who has very good size.

WR

Larry Fitzgerald---Andre Roberts---Early Doucet---Michael Floyd---Isaiah Williams. Fitz and Floyd are an imposing tandem. Roberts, Doucet and Williams (isaiah) can scoot and deliver (as Coach puts it) "chunks." Isaiah gets favored because of his speed and his STs ability. Steven Williams may play well enough again to be the sixth WR. DeMarco Sampson has to beat out Isaiah and, he can, because of STs. Jaymar Johnson is the wild card---he can get the ball to the house in a hurry from the slot. It won't really matter who starts other than Fitzgerald. Doucet didn't start last year and he was 2nd in receptions.

Is this offense tougher than it was a year ago? I believe that with the additions of Snyder, Floyd, Massie, Kelemete, Linsday, Potter, DeChristopher, Wedige and Crank, etc.---the answer is yes.
 
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Crazy Canuck

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Good stuff!

I think, if you check, R. William's problem in his last year was a nagging hamstring pull not a knee issue.
 

Bodha

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Why he keep 4 TE's when we rarely use 1, I dont know.


IMO, drop Dray and Heap. Keep Lindley as 4th QB project. Add RB for depth safety given Ryan and Beans healthy history.
 

BigRedRage

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Why he keep 4 TE's when we rarely use 1, I dont know.


IMO, drop Dray and Heap. Keep Lindley as 4th QB project. Add RB for depth safety given Ryan and Beans healthy history.


we used a lot of 2TE when we had 2 healthy TE.
 

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Mitch, I wouldn't be surprised if Sampson put up VG PS game numbers, because at least part of the time he'll be playing with Ryan Lindley, his old college QB. And as we all know every year one of our bench wr's put up VG numbers.
 

PitchShifter

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Hi Mitch, an interesting read as always!

I was wondering how you saw the Offense under the two different QBs looking? Bucky Brooks did a column a few weeks ago on how he saw the Cards looking given the strengths of the two different QBs, but in an article by Brinkley where Whisenhunt outlines some of the offensive principles, I just get the feeling our QBs are square pegs that don't fit into that round hole. Should Whiz make more concessions in the playbook towards the cattle he has at the QB position?
 

Duckjake

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Hi Mitch, an interesting read as always!

I was wondering how you saw the Offense under the two different QBs looking? Bucky Brooks did a column a few weeks ago on how he saw the Cards looking given the strengths of the two different QBs, but in an article by Brinkley where Whisenhunt outlines some of the offensive principles, I just get the feeling our QBs are square pegs that don't fit into that round hole. Should Whiz make more concessions in the playbook towards the cattle he has at the QB position?

Concessions in the playbook?

Considering that CKW has brought in Brian St.Pierre, Dereck Anderson, Max Hall, Richard Bartel, John Skelton, Kevin Kolb and now some guy who couldn't even complete 60% of his passes in a league where nobody plays defense I don't know if he even knows what makes an NFL QB much less how to make concessions for them. It's the Elephant in the room.
 
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Krangodnzr

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Last year the Cardinals realized that if they are going to compete once again for the NFC West Championship, they had better buckle up their chinstraps and start matching the toughness the 49ers bring to the field.

The Seahawks and Rams have been arriving at the same realization---as the Seahawks have been stressing a power running game and an aggressive attack-oriented press defense, and the Rams have hired one of the toughest head coaches (Jeff Fisher) in the NFL whose defensive roots go back to Buddy Ryan and his all-out assault on offenses and offensive coordinators (remember when Buddy tried to land a right hook on Kevin Gilbride?).

But---the bellwether team for toughness in the NFC West is the 49ers---they bring it full bore and you had better match it, or they will rub your face in it.

What we saw last year was quite an amazing transformation---the Cardinals, despite an awful 2-6 start started manifesting unparalleled toughness in that they showed up to hit people for every one of the last 8 games. Once known for taking weeks off---these Cardinals did not. It was the most consistently sustained effort and toughness the Cardinals have put into an eight game stretch since they arrived in Arizona.

The reward was a 6-2 second half of the season record, which included a three-game sweep of the NFC West rivals over the last 6 weeks---and first time wins versus SF in a few years and over Pete Carroll in his previous three games versus Arizona.

I think you're right here, the NFC West is shaping up the way the old NFC East used to be (and still kind of is). But one of the problems with this paradigm is that teams are generally winning with finesse on offense, not smash mouth football.

I'd rather the Cards force the teams to keep up with a bitchin passing game than a smash mouth running game, because that wins in the NFL. What scares me is that I still don't think we'll have the pass rush to win this year.

Now for a look at this year's personnel and how it applies to Cardinal Tough Year II:

QB

John Skelton---because of his toughness---will emerge as the QB as early as week one. Yes, he certainly needs to start games more efficiently. But he has a command of the pocket that the coaches emphasize---and he was a big part of the 6-2 momentum that the team wishes to carry over into this season. Psychologically, to go back to Kolb will be a reminder of how the season started last year, and the coaches know the team needs to start winning this year straight out of the gate.

Kevin Kolb---hard to imagine that after suffering a season-ending concussion that continued to ail him for over seven weeks that he will be able to overcome his pocket jitters. If he does, then Kolb deserves a world of credit---because he no longer has any financial incentive to produce, as he has made well over $30M in guaranteed money between his Eagle and Cardinal contracts the last three years. Kolb seems like a prideful guy---he will try hard---but physical toughness is an inherent quality---and one that is very difficult to manufacture.

Rich Bartel---he too has shown happy feet in the pocket---so one has to wonder. Like Kolb, he can be accurate in the short and intermediate areas. And he's a solid preparer.

Ryan Lindsey---this kid plays tough---he's not timid at all. But he now plays in an offense where he can throw for a higher percentage, and I think he will surprise us and be in the mix for the #2 job next year.

Whereas you see John Skelton's toughness (and he is tough), I see his lack of on the field intelligence. Like the coaching staff (and many observers too) have stated, the Cardinals had many open receivers. I just don't think toughness is good enough, we need smart QBs, and I don't think that Whisenhunt has found that guy. John Skelton is not that guy, and Kolb probably isn't either. I work with Army Infantry and there are many tough guys in my battalion, but the good ones favor brains over toughness.

Ryan Lindley is an iffy prospect; leave it to coach stubborn to not admit he can't fixed flawed QBs like Lindley. Whisenhunt needs to realize that most of these big strong guys can't play like Rapelisberger. Maybe he needs to go balls to the wall and throw a bunch of draft picks to get the perfect QB for Whisenhunt, Josh Freeman...


RB

Beanie Wells---proved how tough he can be last season. He started delivering the blows instead of taking them. The problem is his high running style---for two reasons: (1) he doesn't make people miss, so he's constantly absorbing contact; (2) his great stiffarm can't always prevent him from getting hit in his knees, which are his Achilles heels. He also needs to show he can block and catch consistently well. Not sure about him holding up, or about him being the right fit, style-wise for this offense. But---he's tough and that's a great start.

Ryan Williams---has been working his tail off to get back to full health. The question will be whether this injury will slow him down the way his hamstring injury in college did. He was not quite the same runner as he was the year before. For now he might have to try to thrive in spot duty---and his uptempo style is a good fit for the offense.

LaRod Stephens-Howling---this kid has it all, everything the offense needs in a rushing and receiving RB except durability---and that's a big except. The offense needs quick to the hole RBs who can catch and LSH is excellent in both areas. If he was durable---he would be the starting RB on this team. But because he is so exceptional on STs---it puts the coaches in a tough spot as to how much to run him with the offense. This kid is fearless, despite his diminutive size.

Alfonso Smith---the wild card here, especially if he learns to acquire greater body control and the ability to elude the first tackler. He runs like a rocket straight ahead, but he loses his feet. He can catch too. He plays hard and tough. He's a fit. I just worry that they are going to run him into the ground in the 5 pre-season games, seeing as the first three on the depth chart will be used very sparingly...and there's not much depth behind him. Javarris James could be a short yardage RB and may need to be. William Powell is another small RB with scoots.

Therefore, don't be surprised if a big contributor at RB comes in a trade or waiver wire pickup. The odds on that? 50/50 at this point?

Again, tough isn't enough. So many of the problems on this team aren't from a lack of toughness. Beanie is tough enough. One of the knocks on Williams coming out is that he tended to try and run bigger than he size. Our issue last year, and likely issue this year is that availability is more important than being "tough".

And I don't your fascination with Alfonso Smith. Other than being a very good pass blocker, he's doo-doo as a RB. I agree we need a vet/promising 3rd stringer. Smith wasn't impressive last year.

FB

Anthony Sherman---look for him to be the blocking back and safety valve receiver in passing situations, in addition to remaining a strong force in the running game. This kid is tough. The coaches will like Jared Crank---he's a good one---and could excel on STs---but there may not be much wiggle room for a #2 FB to make the roster.

Crank has NO shot at making the roster, strictly a camp body. IF we were to rank Crank vs. not only Sherman but also against all the TEs, I'd wager that Crank might be at the bottom of the depth chart.

Sherman is definitely tough and a pretty good ST player, but I seriously doubt he's much more productive than Joel Mackovicka.

LT

Levi Brown---a consummate mauler in the running game who caves in his side of the defensive line, especially in the red zone. Improved from being an erratic pass protector to being solid and dependable over the last 8 games. This guy is tough and workmanlike, no question about it. D'Anthony Batiste is the short term sub here. Nate Potter---long term.

Agreed, Brown was mostly very solid over the last half of the season. Hopefully he turned the corner, but LT is still a position of concern in my book. I would be surprised if next offseason we were debating whether we draft an LT or a QB.

I think Baptiste is done man, he's never shown the ability to be a starter in the NFL and with Bridges/Massie/Kelemete/?Potter on the roster I don't see the benefit of keeping Baptiste.

LG

Daryn Colledge---played with flair last year--is very solid and competitive---a little error prone at times, but was less so the more comfortable he became with the offense. Short term sub---D'Anthony Batiste. Long term---Senio Kelemete.

I agree I was pleased with Colledge mostly last season. Not a guy we need to replace right now, but I think he'll be a possible cap casualty down road as some of these young bucks on the roster. Again Baptiste is likely gone; would you rather sacrifice some of the youth on this roster of an NFL journeyman?

C

Lyle Sendlein---this guy has always been part of the solution not the problem. Mentally tough and physically sound. Nothing spectacular---just steady and workmanlike. Short term sub: Adam Snyder. Long term---Ryan Bartholomew or Scott Wedige.

Sendlein is the best player on this OL, which is a testament to him as a player but an indictment of the OL as a group. Snyder is likely their back up plan at center, but I doubt any of the scrubs make it.

RG

Adam Snyder---played very well and tough versus Darnell Dockett and the Cardinals last year. You could see why Dockett would have endorsed him. Tips off running plays, though, with his stance---which needs to be camouflaged better. Solid in pass pro. Again, workmanlike and highly competitive. Short term sub---D'Anthony Batiste (possibly Chris Stewart). Long term---Ryan DeChristopher.

Snyder is the big ???? of the offseason. He was awful with the Niners last year. By awful I mean he was in the top 5 worst starting guards (RG AND LG) last year. Terrible. A turnstile. Hopefully (and I'm digging deep on this one) this is one of those situations that Snyder has never been good at doing things the Niners ask of lineman and that he's a good fit in our scheme. I'm not convinced though, I'm kind of worried about this acquisition. Batiste is gone and the backup plan is a combination of Kelemete/Bridges.

RT

Jeremy Bridges---get the job done. Doesn't look pretty at times, but he plays with a strong will and resolve. For now he starts until Bobbie Massie is ready. Massie has all the physical gifts one could want for the RT position---and it's where he played in college. Not sure he will be able to be comfortable mentally early on, but here's where a 5th pre-season game could really help. D.J. Young is in the mix here as well and could make the roster in the next year or two.

Bridges is one of those frustrating athletes; he plays great if you call on him to start a game or two, but is exposed if you ask him to play meaningful stretches of a season. Ideal as a swing back up, but certainly not a starter. Massie has to step and wrest the starting job from him or we're stuck at mediocrity and below at RT. I do agree that DJ Young is in the mix; the staff (or was it insiders) stated on a number of occasions that they loved DJ Young.

OL: Levi, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Bridges, Massie, Kelemete, Potter, and Young. Nine linemen, I don't see us keeping any more.

TE

Jeff King---Todd Heap---Rob Housler---Jim Dray. They all bring value---Housler will be featured in the passing game and if he starts perfecting his routes and his timing, look out! King is tough and steady. Heap needs to stay healthy because if he does he might catch 40-50 balls this year, asnd be a huge factor. Dray is tough and good on STs. Sleeper: Steven Skelton. He's going to open some eyes this summer...as will Martel Webb who has very good size.

I'm in the minority here when I say that I thought King was a terrible blocker. The guy gets physically overmatched by most matches. Defensive Ends beat him up and LBs run by him. But he's an alright overall TE, heady, tough, just not a good athlete. And I'm in the minority in thinking that when healthy, Todd Heap is hands down the best TE on the roster. Housler doesn't look tough, but certainly, looks can be deceiving. I think we keep Heap, King, Housler, and one of other TE. This will be decided on blocking, so the battle is probably between Dray and Webb for the final roster spot.

WR

Larry Fitzgerald---Andre Roberts---Early Doucet---Michael Floyd---Isaiah Williams. Fitz and Floyd are an imposing tandem. Roberts, Doucet and Williams (isaiah) can scoot and deliver (as Coach puts it) "chunks." Isaiah gets favored because of his speed and his STs ability. Steven Williams may play well enough again to be the sixth WR. DeMarco Sampson has to beat out Isaiah and, he can, because of STs. Jaymar Johnson is the wild card---he can get the ball to the house in a hurry from the slot. It won't really matter who starts other than Fitzgerald. Doucet didn't start last year and he was 2nd in receptions.

Agreed all most accounts. I see it: Fitz, Roberts/Doucet, Floyd, Sampson.

Is this offense tougher than it was a year ago? I believe that with the additions of Snyder, Floyd, Massie, Kelemete, Linsday, Potter, DeChristopher, Wedige and Crank, etc.---the answer is yes.

No idea, too many variables.
 

PitchShifter

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Concessions in the playbook?

Considering that CKW has brought in Brian St.Pierre, Dereck Anderson, Max Hall, Richard Bartel, John Skelton, Kevin Kolb and now some guy who couldn't even complete 60% of his passes in a league where nobody plays defense I don't know if he even knows what makes an NFL QB much less how to make concessions for them. It's the Elephant in the room.

Aye, very frustrating as a fan.
Horton made adjustments to get the best out of his schemes with where the players were.
I'm not saying anything no-one else hasn't said though. No point running a precision/timing offense with what we have on hand *sigh*
Back in my box.
 

mrbyte

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I love your posts Mitch...dont always agree but I love to read them.
right off let me say I was high on Skelton last year...but
I have just finished rewatching all of last years games and the thing that struck me was how poor Skelton was I think we won games inspite of him not really because of him. I freely admit he played well in the last 5 mins of games but mostly he was a liability. He did however force the defense to 'get it' and step up and keep us in games. Skelton did stand tall in the pocket but boy oh boy was he inaccurate! Fitz made him look good with some amazing catches.

So I'm not convinced Skelton will emerge the starter week 1 unless he has conquered him mechanical issues and thus his accuracy I can only see Kolb getting the starting job...I just hope that Kolb isnt injury prone that concusion was very scary.
 

Garthshort

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Krang, great post. You make a lot of interesting points, and while I'm not sure how many I agree with, they are all well made. There is nothing better than this time of year, and it won't be long before we see how "on target" you and Mitch were with your views. I do agree that we'll go with nine OL, but am not sure if it's five or six WR's. Thanks for your (and Mitch's) take.
 

Duckjake

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Snyder is the big ???? of the offseason. He was awful with the Niners last year. By awful I mean he was in the top 5 worst starting guards (RG AND LG) last year. Terrible. A turnstile. Hopefully (and I'm digging deep on this one) this is one of those situations that Snyder has never been good at doing things the Niners ask of lineman and that he's a good fit in our scheme. I'm not convinced though, I'm kind of worried about this acquisition. Batiste is gone and the backup plan is a combination of Kelemete/Bridges.

I still don't get this as I've heard very little comment from 49er fans on Snyder being awful. Maybe Chilo Rachal was so bad Snyder looked good in comparison or they were giddy over going 13-3. However, a lot of the fans mentioned his versatility rather than his play. I guess we'll see.

I'm in the minority here when I say that I thought King was a terrible blocker.

From the AZ Central training camp preview on TEs this last week: "He (King) is an excellent blocker...last season King made big plays in the passing game because opponents respected him as a blocker...
 

Krangodnzr

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I still don't get this as I've heard very little comment from 49er fans on Snyder being awful. Maybe Chilo Rachal was so bad Snyder looked good in comparison or they were giddy over going 13-3. However, a lot of the fans mentioned his versatility rather than his play. I guess we'll see.



From the AZ Central training camp preview on TEs this last week: "He (King) is an excellent blocker...last season King made big plays in the passing game because opponents respected him as a blocker...

Well you may not have looked enough then, he (Snyder) was baaaaaaaaad. He gave up 33 QB pressures, which is nearly the worst among all offensive lineman and is flat out embarrassing.


As for King, I give a rats what Kent Somers thinks, I saw it with my own eyes. Jeff King is an overrated blocker. He's one of those "try hard" guys that works his butt off but doesn't get the job done.

Why do you think that Carolina let him walk? They didn't think he was particularly good; they viewed him much like we view Jeremy Bridges. Adequate, but not good enough.
 

Duckjake

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Well you may not have looked enough then, he (Snyder) was baaaaaaaaad. He gave up 33 QB pressures, which is nearly the worst among all offensive lineman and is flat out embarrassing.


As for King, I give a rats what Kent Somers thinks, I saw it with my own eyes. Jeff King is an overrated blocker. He's one of those "try hard" guys that works his butt off but doesn't get the job done.

Why do you think that Carolina let him walk? They didn't think he was particularly good; they viewed him much like we view Jeremy Bridges. Adequate, but not good enough.

Well I'm sure Somers doesn't give a rats what you think either. The key statement in the Somers article was that King was able to make plays in the passing game because opponents respected him as a blocker. I don't think that's something that's just Somer's opinion. He had to have heard it somewhere. I watched the same games you did and didn't see King getting blown up.

I still think you are confusing him with Dray.

As for Snyder I know the stats are there but it just makes it more odd that the 49ers fans weren't bagging on him after he left. I just didn't see the "addition by subtraction" and "good riddance" posts you see here when a guy leaves the Cardinals. I haven't seen him play much, and I doubt you have seen much of him either and are just hanging your hat on some stats somebody wrote down, so I don't really know what to think.
 

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Well I'm sure Somers doesn't give a rats what you think either. The key statement in the Somers article was that King was able to make plays in the passing game because opponents respected him as a blocker. I don't think that's something that's just Somer's opinion. He had to have heard it somewhere. I watched the same games you did and didn't see King getting blown up.

I still think you are confusing him with Dray.

As for Snyder I know the stats are there but it just makes it more odd that the 49ers fans weren't bagging on him after he left. I just didn't see the "addition by subtraction" and "good riddance" posts you see here when a guy leaves the Cardinals. I haven't seen him play much, and I doubt you have seen much of him either and are just hanging your hat on some stats somebody wrote down, so I don't really know what to think.

I think that's the difference between a 5-11 team and a 13-3 team. Snyder was widely reputed to be an awful guard and tackle. Ben Muth dismantled him on Football Outsiders last month. San Francisco also has a guy behind him that they've been grooming for three years. Instead of replacing Deuce Lutui, they're replacing Mike Gandy. :shrug:
 

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People complaining about Snyder and using input from 49er fans to help make their point reminds me of Richard Marshall last year. The Panther fans were glad to be rid of him, etc. Well I just hope that Snyder turns out as well as Marshall.
 

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People complaining about Snyder and using input from 49er fans to help make their point reminds me of Richard Marshall last year. The Panther fans were glad to be rid of him, etc. Well I just hope that Snyder turns out as well as Marshall.

You have it backwards. I am using input from 4and9er fans to question whether Snyder is as bad as the so called stat experts claim because the fans weren't glad to be rid of him.

Fans here said they were glad to get rid of Karlos Dansby and Antrel Rolle, after back to back NFC Championships, so maybe its just the fans way of dealing with losing a good football player.
 
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Mitch

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Garth has a good point---and so does Duck.

I have read posts from 49er fans who liked Snyder a lot---and some who though meh.

I have read from pro football analysts some glowing reviews of Snyder---and some very tepid reviews.

However, what I saw on tape excites me about Snyder and I had him on my FA wish list before he was signed. I like his versatility, his size and his aggressiveness. His two games at RG versus the Cardinals were very good---I would give him a rating in the 90s for those two games---and as we know, playing guard versus the Cardinals' DEs is no walk through the park.

The thing is---it doesn't look like a sexy signing, which is why some analysts don't give the signing as much credit as it deserves.

As Garth suggests---it's all about how well a player fits in the system and how ready that player is to step up and get the job done.
 

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Fans here said they were glad to get rid of Karlos Dansby and Antrel Rolle, after back to back NFC Championships, so maybe its just the fans way of dealing with losing a good football player.

Nope, Snyder was bad. As Kerouac stated, Ben Muth and a few other analysts who watch teams closely will tell you he was one of the worst offensive linemen in all of football last year. Fans are wrong very often, but guys like Ben Muth are rarely wrong when it comes to film study.

Just like I think you all are wrong on Jeff King. :) I thought he was best catching the ball and horrible blocking. King isn't the strongest of tight ends, and he frequently gets overpowered or outquicked by quick guys.
 

Krangodnzr

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As Garth suggests---it's all about how well a player fits in the system and how ready that player is to step up and get the job done.

This might be his redeeming factor...

Profootball Focus gave him credit for four "good" games out of 18 last year, with four to six absolutely embarrassing bad games. Not excited about Snyder from what I've read and seen.
 

Duckjake

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Nope, Snyder was bad. As Kerouac stated, Ben Muth and a few other analysts who watch teams closely will tell you he was one of the worst offensive linemen in all of football last year. Fans are wrong very often, but guys like Ben Muth are rarely wrong when it comes to film study.

Just like I think you all are wrong on Jeff King. :) I thought he was best catching the ball and horrible blocking. King isn't the strongest of tight ends, and he frequently gets overpowered or outquicked by quick guys.


You'll never get me to believe that. There's no way those guys can know who was assigned to do what on every single play for every team in the NFL. In fact I think Football Outsiders actually puts a disclaimer on one of their Offensive line rankings pages to that effect.

But let's just say the film study gurus are correct and Snyder is bad. That means we have one of the worst offensive linemen in the NFL according to them at RG. One of the worst offensive linemen according to them in the NFL at LT. The worst lineman on the 2010 Green Bay offensive line at LG. And either a utility player or rookie at RT. To block for a QB who is skittish in the pocket and had two concussions in only 28 games and two RBs coming off knee surgery. We're toast.
 

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You're forgetting good ol Russ Grimm HoF Oline coach will coach em up. It's not so bad! Lol
 

Krangodnzr

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You'll never get me to believe that. There's no way those guys can know who was assigned to do what on every single play for every team in the NFL. In fact I think Football Outsiders actually puts a disclaimer on one of their Offensive line rankings pages to that effect.

But let's just say the film study gurus are correct and Snyder is bad. That means we have one of the worst offensive linemen in the NFL according to them at RG. One of the worst offensive linemen according to them in the NFL at LT. The worst lineman on the 2010 Green Bay offensive line at LG. And either a utility player or rookie at RT. To block for a QB who is skittish in the pocket and had two concussions in only 28 games and two RBs coming off knee surgery. We're toast.

You can believe what you want, but the majority of everything I've read that actually analyzes the guys play says he's doo-doo. There's a reason he's never been a consistent starter with the 9ers, he's not particularly good at any position he's played.

Yep we may be screwed, but offensive line isn't so simple. He may have been a poor fit with the Niners and may come here and fit in well in our scheme. I'm not convinced of that however...
 

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You can believe what you want, but the majority of everything I've read that actually analyzes the guys play says he's doo-doo. There's a reason he's never been a consistent starter with the 9ers, he's not particularly good at any position he's played.

Yep we may be screwed, but offensive line isn't so simple. He may have been a poor fit with the Niners and may come here and fit in well in our scheme. I'm not convinced of that however...

Snyder used to be very good because for his size he had good feet and was versatile. problem is he seemed to be slowing down, was getting hurt alot, and to his credit he was also playing next to a rookie it seemed every year the last few in SF which isn't easy.

I thought Snyder was a better T than G but it's not clear he can play T fulltime anymore he might not have the feet for it anymore. We'll see, if he's healthy he'll be ok, but he has had a bunch of injuries. Hopefully he's one of those guys who was hindered by injuries(in particular a shoulder IIRC), gets healthy and plays better.

I was fine with the signing but to be honest I'm a little leery now because I didn't think that was going to be the end of our OL shuffling. Knowing we essentially brought back everyone else plus the rookies I'm a little less enthused about Snyder.
 

Shane

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This might be his redeeming factor...

Profootball Focus gave him credit for four "good" games out of 18 last year, with four to six absolutely embarrassing bad games. Not excited about Snyder from what I've read and seen.

OMG you've become K9. ;)
 
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