Cardinals 20 Patriots 18 Post-Game Thoughts

[crisper57]

When it first occurred I thought it was a good decision by Hyphen to down it. The squib kick took a crazy high bounce and he had to wait for it for a long time.

I now believe he should have run it out but I don't think it's all this hope I don't fumble stuff.

Meh. Has he run one out where we haven't been called for holding?

 

[JCSunsfan]

The presence of PP21 on the field.

The reason that punt was blocked was because they were trying to avoid kicking it to him. Truly great players change plays they arent even involved in. The same thing happened with Fitz today.

 

[Osbern61]

When it first occurred I thought it was a good decision by Hyphen to down it. The squib kick took a crazy high bounce and he had to wait for it for a long time.

I now believe he should have run it out but I don't think it's all this hope I don't fumble stuff.

I didn't mind him downing it rather than bring it out. 6 seconds is alot of time to kill before being tackled, and IIRC the Pats coverage team was already in the picture.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't mind him downing it rather than bring it out. 6 seconds is alot of time to kill before being tackled, and IIRC the Pats coverage team was already in the picture.

In theory he should have brought it out but as you say the coverage team was already in the picture. It could have resulted in a fumble or the Cardinals starting at the 10-12 yard line.

 

[az jam]

I didn't mind him downing it rather than bring it out. 6 seconds is alot of time to kill before being tackled, and IIRC the Pats coverage team was already in the picture.

Neither do I. My concern was getting out only to the 10 yard line. That would have put tremendous pressure on the offense.

 

[Russ Smith]

But the Cards called the time out. Not the Pats. We could have called a TO then if we wanted to force them into it and have time.

It was a funny little standoff, though.

I don't know if we were going to snap it or not but I'm convinced we called TO because Floyd didn't line up correctly and people got tired of yelling at him to do so.

 

[Russ Smith]

Massie...

Wow! Just.... WOW!

Yeah he had one of those if they never say your name you probably played well games

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Yeah he had one of those if they never say your name you probably played well games

Never heard his name all game. Really an improvement for him. Hope he can can build on this and continue to improve.

 

[Duckjake]

He takes that ball out and he could easily have fumbled, but honestly that's exactly why he didn't.

That's exactly why they nearly lost the game because as a team they start to tighten up in those situations, you can tell it's a war against themselves and even the coaches are in that one.

It went well, we got lucky but we didn't need luck, we had the game in hand.

I'm not going to really blame anyone, this team still is getting used to how good it can be, it's strength believe it or not is the defense, it's very good.

Once the offense really figures this out and if Kolb can resurrect himself a bit then we have a chance to make some things happen.

The coaching is still iffy on game management but in terms of getting players to play I'll have to give them credit.

They need to stop acting like losers and step on peoples throats harder.

When the strength of your team is the Defense you don't get to step on anyone's throat or put games away early. You win 20-18 or 16-13 or 12-10. Which of course makes your point about knowing they can win those games instead of expecting something bad to happen so critical.

Tip for this season: Keep the nitrates handy.

 

[Chopper0080]

Great win, but I saw several issues. For now, I enjoy the win. Great defensive effort.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I like the fact that there are people talking about ways that we could have played better in this game. You could say "shut up and enjoy it", but I think it is good that there are things to complain about in a win like this one.

 

[Duckjake]

I like the fact that there are people talking about ways that we could have played better in this game. You could say "shut up and enjoy it", but I think it is good that there are things to complain about in a win like this one.

That's showing that we're maturing as NFL football fans. Instead of just being happy we actually won a game for a change being happy we won while acknowledging the shortcomings is a huge step forward for the W deprived fans of the Cardinals. As long as we don't go so far as to boo Santa Claus its a good thing.

 

[Totally_Red]

Great win, but I saw several issues. For now, I enjoy the win. Great defensive effort.

The biggest issue I see is at OLT. Batiste was used and abused until they thankfully started to give him some help. He's been abysmal two weeks in a row. I have little faith that he is going to improve much.

 

[Buckybird]

The biggest issue I see is at OLT. Batiste was used and abused until they thankfully started to give him some help. He's been abysmal two weeks in a row. I have little faith that he is going to improve much.

And yet he's given up only 1 sack I believe. Yeah Levi's better in the run game, but IMO Batiste has played just as well or better in pass pro as #75. I wonder how many sacks Levi would've given up? Hmmmm

 

[Chopper0080]

The biggest issue I see is at OLT. Batiste was used and abused until they thankfully started to give him some help. He's been abysmal two weeks in a row. I have little faith that he is going to improve much.

The biggest issue is the QB play. Kolb played ok, but he has a long way to go. Offensive line is a concern for me, but more because I don't like the players they brought in rather than the team not addressing the need. Lastly, we need an offensive coordinator. Someone who can be soley responsibe for an intelligent offensive scheme that creates opportunities for our key players. No team should be able to shut down Fitz like the Pats did yesterday. Whis needs to concentrate more on the team and less on the offensive plays. JMO.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The biggest issue is the QB play. Kolb played ok, but he has a long way to go. Offensive line is a concern for me, but more because I don't like the players they brought in rather than the team not addressing the need. Lastly, we need an offensive coordinator. Someone who can be soley responsibe for an intelligent offensive scheme that creates opportunities for our key players. No team should be able to shut down Fitz like the Pats did yesterday. Whis needs to concentrate more on the team and less on the offensive plays. JMO.

There's a HC in New England who has been taking away your best asset for a very long time.

 

[kerouac9]

The biggest issue is the QB play. Kolb played ok, but he has a long way to go. Offensive line is a concern for me, but more because I don't like the players they brought in rather than the team not addressing the need. Lastly, we need an offensive coordinator. Someone who can be soley responsibe for an intelligent offensive scheme that creates opportunities for our key players. No team should be able to shut down Fitz like the Pats did yesterday. Whis needs to concentrate more on the team and less on the offensive plays. JMO.

People think that I'm never one to pass on an opportunity to take a cheap shot at Whis, but I don't really think this is the case. Yes, Mike Miller is his boy, and Whis probably exercises more control over the offense than we think, but so what? Even though I disagreed with the choice this time, the Cards stuck with the run game and took the ball out of the hands of their $60 million man. I'm sure that Fitz is pissed that he didn't get his touches, but this season should be a learning experience for him, too.

In 2011, Fitz was by far the #1 target on INTs around the NFL. When your QB is terrible, and your running backs can't take advantage of 7-man boxes, then you're not going to get targets.

I really have no problem with the way that Miller/Whis called this one. It's not like Chris Spencer or Horton needed the help in their areas. It was frustrating to have the team run so much, but it's also what I've been asking for the last two or three seasons. Who am I to complain?

 

[Cardiac]

People think that I'm never one to pass on an opportunity to take a cheap shot at Whis, but I don't really think this is the case. Yes, Mike Miller is his boy, and Whis probably exercises more control over the offense than we think, but so what? Even though I disagreed with the choice this time, the Cards stuck with the run game and took the ball out of the hands of their $60 million man. I'm sure that Fitz is pissed that he didn't get his touches, but this season should be a learning experience for him, too.

In 2011, Fitz was by far the #1 target on INTs around the NFL. When your QB is terrible, and your running backs can't take advantage of 7-man boxes, then you're not going to get targets.

I really have no problem with the way that Miller/Whis called this one. It's not like Chris Spencer or Horton needed the help in their areas. It was frustrating to have the team run so much, but it's also what I've been asking for the last two or three seasons. Who am I to complain?

Actually they ran almost the exact opposite game plan you proposed. When you posted the Cards shouldn't even really try to run the ball and pass, pass, pass, I was kinda of with you. Seeing what Whiz and Miller prepared and executed reminded me of why I have sooooooooooo much respect for Whiz.

The Devil went down to Georgia but he couldn't fiddle with the Whiz.

Even though Mitch thinks Whiz can't coach or engage his players the fact that the O ran the game plan that Whiz laid out and executed it very well shows that Whiz is a genius.

 

[Chopper0080]

People think that I'm never one to pass on an opportunity to take a cheap shot at Whis, but I don't really think this is the case. Yes, Mike Miller is his boy, and Whis probably exercises more control over the offense than we think, but so what? Even though I disagreed with the choice this time, the Cards stuck with the run game and took the ball out of the hands of their $60 million man. I'm sure that Fitz is pissed that he didn't get his touches, but this season should be a learning experience for him, too.

In 2011, Fitz was by far the #1 target on INTs around the NFL. When your QB is terrible, and your running backs can't take advantage of 7-man boxes, then you're not going to get targets.

I really have no problem with the way that Miller/Whis called this one. It's not like Chris Spencer or Horton needed the help in their areas. It was frustrating to have the team run so much, but it's also what I've been asking for the last two or three seasons. Who am I to complain?

My point is the offensive coordinator should be able to scheme Larry Fitzgerald some open space in which to be able to get one on one matchups and make plays. This just didn't happen on Sunday and is inexcusable.

 

[kerouac9]

Actually they ran almost the exact opposite game plan you proposed. When you posted the Cards shouldn't even really try to run the ball and pass, pass, pass, I was kinda of with you. Seeing what Whiz and Miller prepared and executed reminded me of why I have sooooooooooo much respect for Whiz.

The Devil went down to Georgia but he couldn't fiddle with the Whiz.

Even though Mitch thinks Whiz can't coach or engage his players the fact that the O ran the game plan that Whiz laid out and executed it very well shows that Whiz is a genius.

I guess. My game plan was to pass because the running game would be less than useless. The latter part was true, but they kept forcing the run to burn clock.

It's not like the game plan proved that you can run on the New England Patriots.

 

[john h]

THE GREAT:

* Offensive line---kept Kolb clean, opened holes late in the game when it was most needed. Might be overlooked, but this may be the best o-line performance, all things considered, in quite some time.

* Wildcat PP21 LSH36---what a boost! The only thing that made me curious was how Belichick knew it was coming and practiced versus it. Didn't matter---they couldn't defend it.

* STs & Coach Kevin Spencer---not only did we turn the momentum of the game totally in our favor with Groves' punt block---the missed FG at the end, well, look at it again---Spencer had Paris Lenon sprinting from left to right just as the ball was being snapped, THAT, and combined with Gostkowski knowing to kick it LEFT of CC93, imo, caused the pull.

* Kerry Rhodes' play on Gronkowski to deny the 2 pointer.

* CC93---despite having the toughest matchup on the d-line versus Pro Bowl G Logan Mankins was HUGE out there in dispruting and getting to Brady.

* Whisenhunt's call on the Kolb 5 yard sneak, right out of the Pats' playbook.

* Whisenhunt's call on the Roberts TD coming inside of Heap's out route.

* Kevin Kolb for playing tough---take that Tommy Kelly!

* Speaking of tough---how about the big catches Early Doucet made in traffic!

* Larry Fitzgerald for being great even when he was bracketed all day. Still not sure how they called his catch on the quick slant incomplete. Doesn't matter now.

* Daryl Washington for being around the ball and making plays all day.

* Sam Acho for bringing outside pressure---especially on that tremendous 10 yard sack he had on Brady. Kudos to Graves on his sack too.

* Ray Horton for playing the 4-2-5 ALL DAY! This is why the Pats tried to run so much, because they were coaxed into it, and it did not help Brady's rhythm.

* DD90 and CC93 for playing their arses off practically all day as the inside DTs.

* WE HAVE A PASS RUSH!

* WE CAN COVER!

* WE CAN DEFEAT A TEAM THAT WAS 10-0 in HOME OPENERS and 35-1 at HOME with HOF QB Tom Brady...AT 10AM-1PM ARIZONA TIME, NO LESS!

Things that NEED IMPROVEMENT:

* You CANNOT try to run the ball on first down 9 times out of 10 versus a loaded box.

* Kolb's short passes.

* The chemistry between Kolb and Heap.

* Man, the Roberts' off-side penalty...

* Zastudil needs hang time---not distance.

* Clock Management---Whisenhunt has been improving, but today he made some mistakes that nearly cost the team the game:

a). LSH36 should have been instructed to run the kickoff out and he had an easy one to do so---would have taken the clock to the 2 minute warning, thus guaranteeing being able to take at least 40 seconds off of 2:00.

b). The fumble by Williams should have never happened because the play was wrong right from the start:

* first of all, you are not going to run for 13 yards on the play, not with their whole team playing run.

* you CANNOT risk a fumble in that situation NO MATTER WHAT.

* the play itself it EXTREMELY RISKY---if you have ever played QB in a tight situation where the d-line is teeing off to create a botched snap or handoff---you would know that having to take a clean snap and open your hips to them throw a pitch LEFT in THIS case---which was to the INSIDE of the potential pressure---is just inviting trouble to happen---that and risking the catch of the pitch or fumble recovery of the pitch is totally preventable and should have been. PLUS---when you run wide you risk the OTHER potential BRAIN FART of winding up out of bounds.

* at that point the clock is your BEST FRIEND---you have 1:10 left, you snap the ball and you TAKE A KNEE. By the time you punt the ball there would be under 30 seconds left---the punt will take another 7-10 seconds---so the odds are heavily in your favor when the other team has no timeouts that they can't go 45 yards in two plays and still have time to spike the ball.

Ryan Williams should have never be put in that position. He still should have manifested the requisite football IQ to realize that taking a slide in that situation is going to win you the game 99/100 times.

Whisenhunt still has these clock issues---as much as he deserves tremendous credit for preparing the team to win, he has to give his players the BEST chance.

All that said---the late half meltdowns that have cost the team repeatedly in the past under Whisenhunt---have been avoided thus far in 2012!

As CT said, 2-0 Baby!

A very possible outcome of this win is the players now can feel that they can compete with anyone at anytime. Having that thought in your mind is going to make you play better without even knowing it. Positive thoughts translate into better play. Another notch in Kolb's belt will make him a better QB hopefully. We also now know we have a decent if not good QB as a backup. I kept worrying Skelton would go down and Kolb would be Kolb and the season would be over.

 

[john h]

Agree on the play, Williams can't fumble but pitching it just makes it more risky.

I would add, the whole thing was setup by Hyphen taking a knee and not running the KO back. If he takes that out we get to the 2 minute warning before first down and can use up more time since they'd have had to use both TO's earlier.

For a veteran KOR that was a really dumb play.

Running it out presents more of a chance for a fumble which may have been in the returners mind. On coming defender are running at full speed and get a better shot at hitting the returner hard and often with no protection. Statistically, I wonder if you have a better chance of a fumble on a run back or on a run into the line?

 

[Duckjake]

What the New England game proved beyond a shadow of a doubt is that we have been getting jobbed by the referees for years.

Amazing how we get replacement refs who aren't suck ups to the elite teams and suddenly get a late game holding call in our favor isn't it?

 

[Cardiac]

I guess. My game plan was to pass because the running game would be less than useless. The latter part was true, but they kept forcing the run to burn clock.

It's not like the game plan proved that you can run on the New England Patriots.

I can't recall if you have been one of those touting to run the ball no matter what just because we need more balance in play calling. I think this was the game that it made sense to have balanced play calling.

If all the Cards had done was drop back to pass then Billicheat would have had more opportunities to mess with Kolb's head and apply more pressure.

So while the run game didn't produce positive results in yardage gained it did help the Oline and Kolb from getting pasted when trying to pass. As you stated it also helped burn time off the clock which is important against a Brady led offense.

I think we will see something similar against the Eagles because they have a ton of pass rushing talent and they are weaker against the run than the Pats.

I wonder if Whiz, Miller and Grim focus on running at DRC since he hasn't been the best at run support.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I can't recall if you have been one of those touting to run the ball no matter what just because we need more balance in play calling. I think this was the game that it made sense to have balanced play calling.

If all the Cards had done was drop back to pass then Billicheat would have had more opportunities to mess with Kolb's head and apply more pressure.

So while the run game didn't produce positive results in yardage gained it did help the Oline and Kolb from getting pasted when trying to pass. As you stated it also helped burn time off the clock which is important against a Brady led offense.

I think we will see something similar against the Eagles because they have a ton of pass rushing talent and they are weaker against the run than the Pats.

I wonder if Whiz, Miller and Grim focus on running at DRC since he hasn't been the best at run support.

Our net yards rushing was 105. Not great, obviously, but added some balance. The Pats had a net of 90 yards. The wide-9 defence of the Eagles may open up rushing lanes if our guards, TE's and fullback can get their hands on the their linebackers.