Cardinals Economics - Kyler and the Future

[dreamcastrocks]

I think that's exactly how they think right now, yes.

Me too. Unfortunately, the team's gradual success (even with the meltdowns) has their overall record to look back on. (You are what your record says you are, right?)

sigh

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think that question has been routinely asked over the past several years... to which I have no response...

Agreed.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

With the Wilson trade he will get his extension and that will raise the tags on Kyler

Meanwhile Keim...

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[Chopper0080]

With the Wilson trade he will get his extension and that will raise the tags on Kyler

Meanwhile Keim...

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I have landed on extending Kyler now that Keim and Kliff are all extended. They are just all tied together even if I am not really sold on Kyler yet.

 

[TRW]

I have landed on extending Kyler now that Keim and Kliff are all extended. They are just all tied together even if I am not really sold on Kyler yet.

I have pretty much come to this conclusion also. I have doubts about Kyler but Gardner Menshew or Jalen hurts being bandied about here? No thanks.

 

[Russ Smith]

For those thinking Kyler will get traded, in the mailbag today someone asked about Kyler and Darren Urban said he thinks it's highly unlikely Kyler is NOT with the Cards this year. He didn't elaborate but he was pretty clear he's not really worried about implications of trading Kyler because he doesn't think the Cards have any interest in doing so

 

[AZ Native]

For those thinking Kyler will get traded, in the mailbag today someone asked about Kyler and Darren Urban said he thinks it's highly unlikely Kyler is NOT with the Cards this year. He didn't elaborate but he was pretty clear he's not really worried about implications of trading Kyler because he doesn't think the Cards have any interest in doing so...until he doesn't show up or...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not too concerned right now. There is a lot that we can do to free up space and while we lost a bunch of starters I'm not as concerned about the cost of replacing them.

For example, CJ seems like a big expensive deal to resign or replace but he was pretty much none existent outside of game 1. We could, if required, replace CJ's production last year with a mixture of Kennard and a rookie. Without the defense losing much in tangible assets.

While Conner had a good year TD wise his actual rushing production was mediocre as far as yards and YPC are concerned. I feel he is easily replaceable.

While Kirk had a good year and is better than many make out he's still highly replaceable. Same with Green. Although I'd rather not have to 2 new WR's having to learn the system.

The guys that for me that are more crucial to hold on are Edmonds, Maxx, Ertz, McCoy and Alford.

Just as big of an issue though are the depth and ST guys. There's something like 8-10 of them to replace. Even at vet min that lone is going to be $10m.

Which obviously means Keim will do the opposite.

I actually agree with all the guys you want to retain. Though I’m not sure I agree that Conners is easily replaceable. While he wasn’t a dynamic runner he was special in short yardage situations and was absolutely a delightful surprise in the passing game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have landed on extending Kyler now that Keim and Kliff are all extended. They are just all tied together even if I am not really sold on Kyler yet.

I’m not sold on any of them but I have most faith in kyler followed by kliff and then keim. But they’re the triple k package, so it is what it is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have landed on extending Kyler now that Keim and Kliff are all extended. They are just all tied together even if I am not really sold on Kyler yet.

Same.

Reality is this is our future for at least the next three years. So, might as well get everyone on the same page and in it to win it together, feeling good about whatever the hell this future is going to be.

 

[Shane]

Same.

Reality is this is our future for at least the next three years. So, might as well get everyone on the same page and in it to win it together, feeling good about whatever the hell this future is going to be.

Feeling good? Wtf

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I thought it would be fun to have a QB like KM, and it was for a while. But I am over him now. Or maybe I should say that I have over these small scrambling qbs and the system they seem to require you to cater for them.

I am now totally in the camp of a 6'5" stud with a big arm, who can make all the throws, has a nice release and touch, who can shrug off big hits, and get you a 1st down when it's 3rd or 4th and 1 or 2. Give me a Big Ben, Josh Allen, even Joe Flacco build and type. Heck, bring back Roman Gabriel.

I just have a really bad feeling/vibe about KM now. I just can't see him staying healthy and safe. A great OL may help, but he really doesn't seem to be that proficient simply staying in the pocket and being able to throw over those big linemen.

I predict a real roller coaster ride of emotions with this kid. Wins, when we get them, will be exciting with lots and lots of close games. But there will be a ton of many different kinds of frustration, disappointment, and excuses surrounding our losses too, especially when it becomes so obvious that opposing coach's game plans seem to shut us down so easily. I feel that only a great run game can stop what I feel is inevitable with both KM and KK.

 

[SoonerLou]

Same agent as Kliff.

The whole same agent thing is very overblown, IMO. If he has same agent as Kliff then he has same agent is Kyler. Is Kyler going turn down a massive contract offer because his agent tells him to because of cutting Devon Kennard? Of course not. Is Keim going to keep him just because he shares the same agent as Kliff if it's best for the team to move on? Of course not.

See they worked things out.

 

[Chopper0080]

Same.

Reality is this is our future for at least the next three years. So, might as well get everyone on the same page and in it to win it together, feeling good about whatever the hell this future is going to be.

Yeah. I can think it will all fall apart but it is what it is at this point. The only path to success IMO is getting Kyler to hit a new level. That is going to take a lot from Keim, Kliff and Kyler IMO. I have zero faith in Keim to find a better option.

 

[wit3card]

I thought it would be fun to have a QB like KM, and it was for a while. But I am over him now. Or maybe I should say that I have over these small scrambling qbs and the system they seem to require you to cater for them.

I am now totally in the camp of a 6'5" stud with a big arm, who can make all the throws, has a nice release and touch, who can shrug off big hits, and get you a 1st down when it's 3rd or 4th and 1 or 2. Give me a Big Ben, Josh Allen, even Joe Flacco build and type. Heck, bring back Roman Gabriel.

I just have a really bad feeling/vibe about KM now. I just can't see him staying healthy and safe. A great OL may help, but he really doesn't seem to be that proficient simply staying in the pocket and being able to throw over those big linemen.

I predict a real roller coaster ride of emotions with this kid. Wins, when we get them, will be exciting with lots and lots of close games. But there will be a ton of many different kinds of frustration, disappointment, and excuses surrounding our losses too, especially when it becomes so obvious that opposing coach's game plans seem to shut us down so easily. I feel that only a great run game can stop what I feel is inevitable with both KM and KK.

I feel very similar, expect I can see him win us one if he has the right cast sorrounding him. But what he is asking now, we can't afford that and that to me is a real problem and will get us exactly to that point that you are envisioning.

 

[Russ Smith]

I feel very similar, expect I can see him win us one if he has the right cast sorrounding him. But what he is asking now, we can't afford that and that to me is a real problem and will get us exactly to that point that you are envisioning.

Of course we can afford it, just like other teams afford their big salaries. The question is will we get good enough pay out of Kyler.

Nobody knows but his salary he gets won't be the reason the team sinks or swims, his level of play will

 

[football karma]

The only path to success IMO is getting Kyler to hit a new level.

heck, success is K1 replicates 2021 weeks 1-11 level for games 1-17 and beyond

the only thing that keeps my head in the game on the future of the Cardinals is that 10-2 and K1s play during that time wasnt a fluke.

 

[cardncubfan]

heck, success is K1 replicates 2021 weeks 1-11 level for games 1-17 and beyond

the only thing that keeps my head in the game on the future of the Cardinals is that 10-2 and K1s play during that time wasnt a fluke.

This. I haven't given up on K1 like some here. I believe he has some growing up to do still. I also think he's kind of soft when it comes to injuries. I think that the growing up will help with the softness so to speak.

 

[Totally_Red]

heck, success is K1 replicates 2021 weeks 1-11 level for games 1-17 and beyond

the only thing that keeps my head in the game on the future of the Cardinals is that 10-2 and K1s play during that time wasnt a fluke.

Yeah. Like it or not 'we' are riding with K1 and K2 for the foreseeable future. The good is some kind of stability for awhile. The bad is that it requires K1 to mature into a leader and consistent performer and K2 to improve as a head coach and play caller.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And now the reality of the the increasing QB market has hit with one of Murray's largest critics.

Bickley: Rodgers, Wilson news emphasizes need for Cardinals to pay Kyler

The Arizona Cardinals need to understand the importance of a franchise quarterback and pay Kyler Murray, even though he has flaws.

arizonasports.com

On one hand I basically do financial risk analysis for a living so this stuff is easy to me to see.

On the other hand a freaking GM / NFL team should have a guy that does this as well. You wanted to get in before the market starts to reset. Proactive not reactive.

 

[Stout]

And now the reality of the the increasing QB market has hit with one of Murray's largest critics.

Bickley: Rodgers, Wilson news emphasizes need for Cardinals to pay Kyler

The Arizona Cardinals need to understand the importance of a franchise quarterback and pay Kyler Murray, even though he has flaws.

arizonasports.com

On one hand I basically do financial risk analysis for a living so this stuff is easy to me to see.

On the other hand a freaking GM / NFL team should have a guy that does this as well. You wanted to get in before the market starts to reset. Proactive not reactive.

And if massively rewarding mediocrity/lack of real success/going 0-fer in clinching and playoff games ends up reinforcing KM's weltanschauung that he doesn't need to change? Well, then we're looking at eating mega crap tons of cap money for Kirk Cousins part deux. You can talk all you want about how it's a fait accompli, it is what it is, it's just the market, but I loathe the notion of rewarding the suckitude he's given us in key moments. It may just lead to more key suckitude because, hey, why change your approach when what you're doing makes you one of the highest-paid players in history?

This is in no way, shape, or form the open and shut kind of situation you're portraying it to be.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It is absolutely open and shut unless your head is in the sand. Pay him or trade him. Every day is either gained cost on the financial end or lost cost in the trade market.

This narrative that about 6 of you spout on every thread is putrid and annoying.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This idea that we make him prove it or he was coming at a discount was and always will be stupid and short sighted rooted in unyielding bias. It is not how you manage a team or display the leadership that an organization needs. You set a course at QB and you act swiftly on it.

 

[kerouac9]

Either you think that Kyler is and can be better than Kirk Cousins for the next five years, or you don’t.

If you think he’s better, you sign him to a deal that’s between Aaron Rodgers and Kyle Allen.

If you don’t, you trade him away to someone who does and reset.

I think that despite everything Kyler is better than Cousins, so I said weeks ago that we need to pay him.

 

[Stout]

This idea that we make him prove it or he was coming at a discount was and always will be stupid and short sighted rooted in unyielding bias. It is not how you manage a team or display the leadership that an organization needs. You set a course at QB and you act swiftly on it.

I've agreed with you on the trade him/pay him proposal. I would much rather trade him than give him 50+ million at this point in his career. I disagree that it's impossible to make him play and earn it this year, but it's not ideal. The problem with the pay him idea is that you might cripple the organization for 5+ years if the QB doesn't change after given incentive to do the same thing he's been doing before. What kind of neat accounting takes do you have that will help us in that instance? I get the ride-or-die thought process, but I'd much rather not pin all our hopes on KM doing a complete 180 AFTER a ginormous reward deal.

Finally, what kind of leadership trend does it send to the rest of your team/organization when pouting and Eff You behavior (refusing to re-enter a playoff game) gets not only rewarded, but record-setting NFL pay rewarded? It sends a godawful message.

Oh, and nice walking the line with "stupid and shortsighted." We both know the insult is meant, under the thin veneer of "the idea."