Cardinals Fan's Son Holds Beer, Dad Kicked out

[Mulli]

Hopefully no one ever has their kids help them carry in groceries that happen to have alcohol in them.

Nothing surprises me in that stadium anymore, especially when it comes to treatment of Cardinals fans.

What yahoo would have groceries at UofP and how did they get them inside the stadium? In the dainty clear plastic bags?

 

[Mulli]

Because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are not allowed to touch alcohol in public because of the potential perception. Kind of like this.

Your kids can not hold alcohol in public, they just can't. I thought this was absolute common knowledge. You want them to fetch a beer at home, by all means if you can get them to do it lucky duck, but not ever in public.

This.

 

[PDXChris]

Because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they are not allowed to touch alcohol in public because of the potential perception. Kind of like this.

Your kids can not hold alcohol in public, they just can't. I thought this was absolute common knowledge. You want them to fetch a beer at home, by all means if you can get them to do it lucky duck, but not ever in public.

Yup

Also, I believe there is a distinction between open container and closed container. There are no closed containers at the stadium and all beer in a grocery bad is in a closed container, at least I would assume so. If you get pulled over with a six pack and a beer is open, you get in trouble, but if the beer is closed, you do not. Does anyone have an issue with that?

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Your kids can not hold alcohol in public, they just can't. I thought this was absolute common knowledge.

Nope. I had no idea that was the law in AZ.

 

[Mulli]

Nope. I had no idea that was the law in AZ.

Aren't open container laws for minors pretty standard most places?

 

[BigRedRage]

Nope. I had no idea that was the law in AZ.

Some stores wont even sell you beer if someone with you isnt 21.

We had that problem a lot as teenagers having someones mom buy us beer = P

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What yahoo would have groceries at UofP and how did they get them inside the stadium? In the dainty clear plastic bags?

The logic that is being used in this case is anytime a minor is holding alcohol regardless of location, you are "offering" it to them.

So yes, by this logic having your kid carry in your beer from the grocery store is a misdemeanor.

 

[Mulli]

The logic that is being used in this case is anytime a minor is holding alcohol regardless of location, you are "offering" it to them.

So yes, by this logic having your kid carry in your beer from the grocery store is a misdemeanor.

open container at a sporting event v. alcohol from a grocery store?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

open container at a sporting event v. alcohol from a grocery store?

Trust me, I am right on this. I should know since I got a citation once for my 19 year old sister carrying in a 12 pack of beer for me inside.

They eventually dismissed the charges but I had to do 2 days of community service.

It has nothing to do with the stadium or the open container. If the cops want to harass you, they can do it based on distribution of alcohol to minors by letting them carry or hold it. It is a dick move but welcome to Arizona.

 

[Mulli]

Trust me, I am right on this. I should know since I got a citation once for my 19 year old sister carrying in a 12 pack of beer for me inside.

They eventually dismissed the charges but I had to do 2 days of community service.

It has nothing to do with the stadium or the open container. If the cops want to harass you, they can do it based on distribution of alcohol to minors by letting them carry or hold it. It is a dick move but welcome to Arizona.

Yep. I guess I should have known.

 

[crisper57]

Next time, wear a Cowboys jersey to the stadium. It is like camouflage to dick cops and security personnel.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Aren't open container laws for minors pretty standard most places?

I've never heard of anyone in CA (which is the state I'm familiar with) getting busted because their kid held their beer. I had a job in college where I sold liquor even though I was under-age to legally drink it. I also had a short career serving drinks when I was underage. Perfectly legal (At least it was then.) Things are a lot looser there.

Thank God. The booze jobs paid well for a student.

 

[BigRedRage]

I've never heard of anyone in CA (which is the state I'm familiar with) getting busted because their kid held their beer. I had a job in college where I sold liquor even though I was under-age to legally drink it. I also had a short career serving drinks when I was underage. Perfectly legal (At least it was then.) Things are a lot looser there.

Thank God. The booze jobs paid well for a student.

in AZ you can serve liquor at the age of 19.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Difficult to comment since we don't really know all the details ... however, under the assumptions that he was just holding it for a minute for a picture it's bogus.

The whole spirit of the law thing - most logical thought processes wouldn't include a father momentarily handing his son a beer in a stadium would hardly constitute the "possession by a minor" that we would want punished.

However, with many laws there is a lack of interpretation and the enforcement officials just go overboard.

In this case, assuming that it was just a second and they saw the handoff then it would be a great opportunity to educate and not be a jerk .... a lot of transplants in this state and these type of laws are definitely not standard and not something that you would readily think of

http://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/..._Internal_Possession_of_Alcohol.html?tab=maps

In NY the minor must have intent to consume to go with the possession and there is a parental exception so this type of thing really wouldn't be an issue .... plus the whole law reads goofy with what is supposed to be done with the beverage

Alcoholic Beverage Control

§ 65-c. Unlawful possession of an alcoholic beverage with the intent
to consume by persons under the age of twenty-one years.

1. Except as hereinafter provided, no person under the age of twenty-one years shall possess any alcoholic beverage, as defined in this chapter, with the intent to consume such beverage.

2. A person under the age of twenty-one years may possess any
alcoholic beverage with intent to consume if the alcoholic beverage is
given:
(a) to a person who is a student in a curriculum licensed or
registered by the state education department and the student is required
to taste or imbibe alcoholic beverages in courses which are a part of
the required curriculum, provided such alcoholic beverages are used only
for instructional purposes during class conducted pursuant to such
curriculum; or
(b) to the person under twenty-one years of age by that person's
parent or guardian.

3. Any person who unlawfully possesses an alcoholic beverage with
intent to consume may be summoned before and examined by a court having
jurisdiction of that charge; provided, however, that nothing contained
herein shall authorize, or be construed to authorize, a peace officer as
defined in subdivision thirty-three of section 1.20 of the criminal
procedure law or a police officer as defined in subdivision thirty-four
of section 1.20 of such law to arrest a person who unlawfully possesses
an alcoholic beverage with intent to consume. If a determination is made
sustaining such charge the court may impose a fine not exceeding fifty
dollars and/or completion of an alcohol awareness program established
pursuant to section 19.25 of the mental hygiene law and/or an
appropriate amount of community service not to exceed thirty hours.

4. No such determination shall operate as a disqualification of any
such person subsequently to hold public office, public employment, or as
a forfeiture of any right or privilege or to receive any license granted
by public authority; and no such person shall be denominated a criminal
by reason of such determination, nor shall such determination be deemed
a conviction.

5. Whenever a peace officer as defined in subdivision thirty-three of
section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law or police officer as defined
in subdivision thirty-four of section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law
shall observe a person under twenty-one years of age openly in
possession of an alcoholic beverage as defined in this chapter, with the
intent to consume such beverage in violation of this section, said
officer may seize the beverage, and shall deliver it to the custody of
his or her department.

6. Any alcoholic beverage seized in violation of this section is
hereby declared a nuisance. The official to whom the beverage has been
delivered shall, no earlier than three days following the return date
for initial appearance on the summons, dispose of or destroy the
alcoholic beverage seized or cause it to be disposed of or destroyed.
Any person claiming ownership of an alcoholic beverage seized under this
section may, on the initial return date of the summons or earlier on
five days notice to the official or department in possession of the
beverage, apply to the court for an order preventing the destruction or
disposal of the alcoholic beverage seized and ordering the return of
that beverage. The court may order the beverage returned if it is
determined that return of the beverage would be in the interest of
justice or that the beverage was improperly seized.

I think it's worth noting that this isn't really about "open container" type laws - UoP Stadium is a private venue with a license to sell alcohol. It's not a public space like the sidewalk or a park.

Looking at the jumbled mess that is the AZ Law I found some components that could apply here:

18. "Legal drinking age" means twenty-one years of age or older.

9. Except as provided in paragraphs 10 and 11 of this section, for a licensee or other person to sell, furnish, dispose of or give, or cause to be sold, furnished, disposed of or given, to a person under the legal drinking age or for a person under the legal drinking age to buy, receive, have in the person's possession or consume spirituous liquor. This paragraph shall not prohibit the employment by an off-sale retailer of persons who are at least sixteen years of age to check out, if supervised by a person on the premises who is at least nineteen years of age, package or carry merchandise, including spirituous liquor, in unbroken packages, for the convenience of the customer of the employer, if the employer sells primarily merchandise other than spirituous liquor.

10. For a licensee to employ a person under nineteen years of age to manufacture, sell or dispose of spirituous liquors. This paragraph shall not prohibit the employment by an off-sale retailer of persons who are at least sixteen years of age to check out, if supervised by a person on the premises who is at least nineteen years of age, package or carry merchandise, including spirituous liquor, in unbroken packages, for the convenience of the customer of the employer, if the employer sells primarily merchandise other than spirituous liquor.

11. For an on-sale retailer to employ a person under nineteen years of age in any capacity connected with the handling of spirituous liquors. This paragraph does not prohibit the employment by an on-sale retailer of a person under nineteen years of age who cleans up the tables on the premises for reuse, removes dirty dishes, keeps a ready supply of needed items and helps clean up the premises.

16. For a licensee or employee to knowingly permit any person on or about the licensed premises to give or furnish any spirituous liquor to any person under twenty-one years of age or knowingly permit any person under twenty-one years of age to have in the person's possession spirituous liquor on the licensed premises.

41. For a person under twenty-one years of age to have in the person's body any spirituous liquor. In a prosecution for a violation of this paragraph:

(a) Pursuant to section 4-249, it is a defense that the spirituous liquor was consumed in connection with the bona fide practice of a religious belief or as an integral part of a religious exercise and in a manner not dangerous to public health or safety.

(b) Pursuant to section 4-226, it is a defense that the spirituous liquor was consumed for a bona fide medicinal purpose and in a manner not dangerous to public health or safety.

The AZ is really cut and dry about possession - it simply can't be done with any qualifiers.

Doesn't appear to make a difference between open or closed container, public or private venue, parental furnishing, etc.

I just learned that if my toddler were to open the fridge and snag a closed can of beer off the door - that the 5-10 seconds that it would take for me to regain possession and put it back in the fridge (followed by the reprimand about taking items out of the fridge) my toddler would be a criminal in AZ and I'm sure I'd also be breaking some kind of law.

Perfect.

Well at least now I know.................

 

[gimpy]

Yep, officers enforcing the law is harassment. I guess? You can refer to ARS 4-244.9 for the exact law.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[crisper57]

(a) Pursuant to section 4-249, it is a defense that the spirituous liquor was consumed in connection with the bona fide practice of a religious belief or as an integral part of a religious exercise and in a manner not dangerous to public health or safety.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the NFL is my religion on Sundays and consuming beer is part of my ritual.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Amen Crisper

 

[FORKTUNG]

A man was kicked out of the Cardinals game this weekend after handing a beer to his teenage son to hold while he took a photo. He was ejected, but officials say not for the beer, but for his behavior.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/category/230136/sports

 

[DemsMyBoys]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the NFL is my religion on Sundays and consuming beer is part of my ritual.

Last year my ritual involved having a drink after the game to get the pure awfulness of what I'd just seen wiped from my brain.

 

[BigRedRage]

Last year my ritual involved having a drink after the game to get the pure awfulness of what I'd just seen wiped from my brain.

I used forget-me-nows

-Gob

 

[Mulli]

I used forget-me-nows

-Gob

How can you be sure? :circle:

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

This is really dumb and shows how americans still live in some fantasy land when it comes to our kids and social norms. When my kid turned 16 we drank, smoked some weed, and then i took him out to get laid. I, like all dads know that that is what he wanted and would end up doing soon anyway. So why not teach him the correct, safe, and respectful way to do each. Better than have him learn from his goofy friends in an alley, or worse yet in one of their cars down at the beach.

 

[Duckjake]

It is the epitome of stupid that it is unlawful for a minor to have possession of unopened adult beverages in the presence of their parents. Almost as stupid as it being unlawful for a minor to have an opened adult beverage in the same circumstances. In fact it is stupid to have any laws regulating the sale or use of alcohol.

Or gambling or prostitution, or maryjane for that matter. (stupid auto correct)

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is really dumb and shows how americans still live in some fantasy land when it comes to our kids and social norms. When my kid turned 16 we drank, smoked some weed, and then i took him out to get laid. I, like all dads know that that is what he wanted and would end up doing soon anyway. So why not teach him the correct, safe, and respectful way to do each. Better than have him learn from his goofy friends in an alley, or worse yet in one of their cars down at the beach.

I'd have to say that there is more than one way to raise a child and that you and I don't share the same values despite your "all fathers" claim. For example, I don't pass judgement on a woman for selling her body but I had no desire to teach my son that sex was something you purchased. I also think teaching a 16 year old child to drink and smoke pot and then go out into public seems foolhardy to me, especially if one of you drove.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

I'd have to say that there is more than one way to raise a child and that you and I don't share the same values despite your "all fathers" claim. For example, I don't pass judgement on a woman for selling her body but I had no desire to teach my son that sex was something you purchased. I also think teaching a 16 year old child to drink and smoke pot and then go out into public seems foolhardy to me, especially if one of you drove.

Steve

Well that's your perogotive. But it shouldn't be a law. As for driving that's a different set of laws totally unrelated to a ban.