Cardinals' HC Search Thoughts Part III

[CFLredzoned]

Yeah. I don't know how hard he worked and what his data set was like. I mean, yes, Brady had Belicheck and Rivers and Brees were the products (mostly) of Marty Schottenheimer. But Mike Sherman and Mike McCarthy were Aaron Rodgers' head coaches. Jim Mora was a defensive coordinator for one year with the Pats and a head coach for a decade before Peyton Manning came along. Dan Reeves was an offensive coach who shepherded John Elway into the NFL, and everyone knows about Bill Walsh.

Yeah it is hard to picture Wolfley poking away at the computer to pull that off.

I still want to know about Shurmur though. If he's the guy in the QB's headset on gameday, that makes him alot more intriguing to me. if not, I think he becomes much more of a JAG - and who is his OC?

 

[football karma]

one the better aspects of the Arians tenure: it seems liked players genuinely liked playing for him, and, the team had a persona

Wilks, from what i have read, seems like the guy closest to that. Xs and Os -yes -- but also brings leadership and a persona.

 

[daves]

Simply put, Bettch, is under-qualified. Bettch is a promising young coach, but he needs more experience and a greater track record of success.

Not really sure how accurate this statement is considering all the successful 31 to 40-year-old coaches in the league as of late and the amount of success they’re having... hmmm

Strange too, coming from the guy who's been pimping John DeFilippo for HC, who's almost exactly the same age and has only one year of experience at the coordinator level (last year in Cleveland, when their offense was in the bottom 3). Bettcher has three years as a coordinator, with a top-6 finish every year in yards (though only between 7 and 19 in points).

I'm not by any means arguing pro-Bettcher, but if you're going to call him out for needing more experience and success, why promote DeFilippo as HC material?

...dbs

 

[TheCardFan]

Very good article on Wilks - http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-g...ets-to-show-why-players-gravitates-toward-him

I am intrigued by him as a HC.

 

[Mitch]

Strange too, coming from the guy who's been pimping John DeFilippo for HC, who's almost exactly the same age and has only one year of experience at the coordinator level (last year in Cleveland, when their offense was in the bottom 3). Bettcher has three years as a coordinator, with a top-6 finish every year in yards (though only between 7 and 19 in points).

I'm not by any means arguing pro-Bettcher, but if you're going to call him out for needing more experience and success, why promote DeFilippo as HC material?

...dbs

Um because he is a QB guru and we need one?

 

[MrYeahBut]

Um because he is a QB guru and we need one?

Actually, we need both.

 

[Mitch]

Strange too, coming from the guy who's been pimping John DeFilippo for HC, who's almost exactly the same age and has only one year of experience at the coordinator level (last year in Cleveland, when their offense was in the bottom 3). Bettcher has three years as a coordinator, with a top-6 finish every year in yards (though only between 7 and 19 in points).

I'm not by any means arguing pro-Bettcher, but if you're going to call him out for needing more experience and success, why promote DeFilippo as HC material?

...dbs

daves---

The QB position gets a premium, imo. I agree with all you said. But if we draft Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph, with the job JDF has been doing with Carson Wentz, I would want him with our QBs. Remember we are competing against Russell Wilson, Jared Goff and Jimmy Garoppolo. And please know that I want JDF with veteran coordinators---that is if we are unable to hire Pat Shurmur, who is my top choice.

 

[daves]

daves---

The QB position gets a premium, imo. I agree with all you said. But if we draft Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph, with the job JDF has been doing with Carson Wentz, I would want him with our QBs. Remember we are competing against Russell Wilson, Jared Goff and Jimmy Garoppolo. And please know that I want JDF with veteran coordinators---that is if we are unable to hire Pat Shurmur, who is my top choice.

I get that and, as i said - i'm by no means advocating for Bettcher. But as HC, how much time would DeFilippo spend mentoring QBs? Seems that if you're looking for a guy to mentor a young QB, you get a great QB coach and OC with a track record in that department. At HC, i'd give more weight to a guy who has spent more time being one step away from the HC, either as a coordinator or as assistant HC (or "Assistant to the HC", depending on what his duties entailed).

I guess when it comes to guys with no prior HC experience, every case is different as regards what the guy's duties have been in the past, which of the things he did well he'll keep doing in his new role, and what additional, un-tapped skills he has that would make him as good or better in the HC role than he was in his previous role.

...dbs

 

[Cheesebeef]

Strange too, coming from the guy who's been pimping John DeFilippo for HC, who's almost exactly the same age and has only one year of experience at the coordinator level (last year in Cleveland, when their offense was in the bottom 3). Bettcher has three years as a coordinator, with a top-6 finish every year in yards (though only between 7 and 19 in points).

I'm not by any means arguing pro-Bettcher, but if you're going to call him out for needing more experience and success, why promote DeFilippo as HC material?

...dbs

Thank you for at least acknowledging the points Bittcher's defenses have given up.

 

[Mitch]

I get that and, as i said - i'm by no means advocating for Bettcher. But as HC, how much time would DeFilippo spend mentoring QBs? Seems that if you're looking for a guy to mentor a young QB, you get a great QB coach and OC with a track record in that department. At HC, i'd give more weight to a guy who has spent more time being one step away from the HC, either as a coordinator or as assistant HC (or "Assistant to the HC", depending on what his duties entailed).

I guess when it comes to guys with no prior HC experience, every case is different as regards what the guy's duties have been in the past, which of the things he did well he'll keep doing in his new role, and what additional, un-tapped skills he has that would make him as good or better in the HC role than he was in his previous role.

...dbs

Well according to twitter John DeFilippo is the Seahawks' top choice as OC. So, that could be that.

 

[Hypothesis]

2018 NFL Head Coaching search rumors, whispers and innuendos ...
www.1580thefanatic.com/2018-nfl-head-coaching-search-rumors-whispers-and-innu...
5 days ago - Mike McCoy is being tagged as the OC for not only James Bettcher, but also Steve Wilks, the DC of the Carolina Panthers who will interview when the Panthers are out. McCoy is alleged to be wanting to bring a veteran quarterback in and that veteran quarterback is… Brock Osweiler; Why is Mike Munchak ...

In addition, an article this morning in New York (I read several early this am and can't remember which one it was) stated that the Giants were not happy with Wilks' choice of Mike McCoy. So, if that's true, McCoy is Wilkes' choice, at least as of yesterday.

Here is a local piece from RotB that I think could be pretty nice...

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...ady-interview-their-new-offensive-coordinator

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Bruce Arians hopes Cardinals hire James Bettcher to replace him

Former Cardinals coach Bruce Arians says the team should hire his defensive coordinator, James Bettcher, to replace him.
Arians, who retired after the season, said Bettcher has all the qualifications to succeed him.

“I would love to see James Bettcher get the job,” Arians told Rich Eisen, via the Arizona Republic.

Bettcher is one of several candidates the Cardinals have interviewed. After spending eight years as a college coach, Bettcher spent one year as outside linebackers coach with the Colts in 2012, when Arians was the team’s interim head coach for most of the season, then went with Arians to Arizona and spent two years as the Cardinals’ outside linebackers coach and three years as defensive coordinator.

“He’s ready to be a head coach anywhere,” Arians said.

The Cardinals have indicated that they will take their time with their search. Several of their candidates are assistant coaches on teams that are still in the playoff

 

[NJCardFan]

The media's love affair with BA marches on. It's uncanny. The guy won 1 playoff game (1-2) during his "All or Nothing" campaign.

To be fair, unlike Reid who has won as many playoff games as BA but Reid's team never went through the injury woes that BA went through. BA IMO just had bad luck. 2013 wins 10 games but misses the playoffs and considering this was a team that went 5-11 the previous year(including losing 11 of last 12 games). 2014, things begin to click leading the division pretty much all year but we lose Palmer and limp into the playoffs with Ryan Lindley at QB, we get bounced in 1 game. 2015, best team this franchise has ever seen. Premier back, Palmer throwing the ball all over the place, then in our divisional coronation game, Palmer dislocates a finger on his throwing hand and we lose the heart of our defense. The rest is history. So BA was beset more by bad luck than coaching ability. However, I do agree with you about his blind loyalty.

 

[NJCardFan]

I can't find anywhere, outside of Revenge of the Birds, that states Mike McCoy is Wilks choice of OC. The names I hear him most tied to are Norv Turner, Mike Shula and John DeFilippo.

I hear Turner is in as OC in Carolina. Not sure if that's what Newton needs.

 

[NJCardFan]

You don't have to love the track record, but Bettcher has lead defenses that ranked in the Top 6 in yardage the last three years.

What a weird season 2016 was. We had a +56 point differential and were top 10 in offense and defense and had a losing record.

Well, in all honesty we were a couple of missed kicks away from being 9-7 at least and .500 at worst.

 

[Mitch]

I hear Turner is in as OC in Carolina. Not sure if that's what Newton needs.

Could Carolina be preparing to move on from Cam Newton? I agree with you. Norv Turner does not seem like a good match for Cam.

 

[NJCardFan]

Could Carolina be preparing to move on from Cam Newton? I agree with you. Norv Turner does not seem like a good match for Cam.

From what I was reading last night, it's a done deal. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ecome-carolina-panthers-offensive-coordinator

Does present an interesting question concerning Newton as Turner's history is more traditional north/south offenses. Newton isn't a traditional pocket passer nor is he a down field passer which is Turner's milieu. Carolina also doesn't have a back that would be conducive to a Turner offense. Will be interesting to see.

 

[NJCardFan]

Question, Mitch, if Turner's coming to Carolina makes Newton possibly available, would you make a play for him? I mean, it would take a lot and more than our 1st round this year for sure but do you take a chance? Would make this division the best young QB division in the league. Imagine twice a year seeing Garappolo, Wilson, Newton, Goff go at it could make for classic games.

 

[Mitch]

Question, Mitch, if Turner's coming to Carolina makes Newton possibly available, would you make a play for him? I mean, it would take a lot and more than our 1st round this year for sure but do you take a chance? Would make this division the best young QB division in the league. Imagine twice a year seeing Garappolo, Wilson, Newton, Goff go at it could make for classic games.

I am not a Cam Newton fan. Yes, I recognize his physical talent, but he's too much of a diva for my liking. We would really have to pick the right coach for him. Who would that coach be? Someone like Hue Jackson or Darrell Bevel?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Well, I mean those numbers are a little skewed by the 40-7 hurting we put on the Bucs in Week 2 and the 44-6 beatdown we put on the Rams in Week 17. Take those games out--or even one of those games out--and it looks a little different.

Ahhhhhh...history. That's like saying take away such and such win from 2008, and no Super Bowl. You just can't do that...it happened.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

2018 NFL Head Coaching search rumors, whispers and innuendos ...
www.1580thefanatic.com/2018-nfl-head-coaching-search-rumors-whispers-and-innu...
5 days ago - Mike McCoy is being tagged as the OC for not only James Bettcher, but also Steve Wilks, the DC of the Carolina Panthers who will interview when the Panthers are out. McCoy is alleged to be wanting to bring a veteran quarterback in and that veteran quarterback is… Brock Osweiler; Why is Mike Munchak ...

In addition, an article this morning in New York (I read several early this am and can't remember which one it was) stated that the Giants were not happy with Wilks' choice of Mike McCoy. So, if that's true, McCoy is Wilkes' choice, at least as of yesterday.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I heard Wolfley say he researched past successful QBs and found that there were actually more with defensive minded HCs than offensive HCs. If that's true, it's basically saying that there's no relationship and it can go either way.

So it's easy to get enamored with offensive HCs due to the recent success of McVay and Shanahan. But they're different because they work directly with the QB and call their own plays. So that begs the question: Has Shurmur revealed who will be running the offense on gameday? Him or an OC?

Maybe this is because a Def HC is more hands off on the offense and trusts the OC??? While an Off HC may keep his hand in the cookie jar...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[NJCardFan]

I am not a Cam Newton fan. Yes, I recognize his physical talent, but he's too much of a diva for my liking. We would really have to pick the right coach for him. Who would that coach be? Someone like Hue Jackson or Darrell Bevel?

Good question. Maybe not a HC but an OC who's forte is moving the QB around. As for Newton being a diva, I'll take a 3 legged camel if it can win games for me.

 

[oaken1]

Could Carolina be preparing to move on from Cam Newton? I agree with you. Norv Turner does not seem like a good match for Cam.

been watching carolina,...and this season Newton sits longer on the turf after runs...and often makes that google eyed bobble head look.

very possible bringing in a guy like Turner is a move designed to extend Newtons career and cut down on his runs. I think the guy is tired of getting his bell rung too..

we all know that in order to remain effective over the long term a "running" qb needs to learn to stand in the pocket and pass the ball,... but it seems many coordinators get lazy...start calling chunk plays designed to clear out that first 5-7 yards so if nobody is open deep the QB can just run it.
If Newton can mesh with Norv Turner...it likely extends his career and improves his passing numbers. Ideal for Carolina...Newton is a generational talent and if they can get him sold on just passing from the pocket and using his legs as an absolute last resort it extends his time. It looks as if they have been trying to do that the past couple seasons but the play design has let them down I think

 

[Chopper0080]

Darrell Bevell - Interesting name for OC.

Here are two quotes from articles about him. First one clearly credits Bevell for finding and developing Russell Wilson. Could he do the same for Baker Mayfield or another young QB? I give him a lot of credit for scouting and developing him...that is impressive. It's no secret that the oline has been the biggest problem with the Seahawks but you would also have to say the defense has been the biggest strength (helps out the offense in many ways).

(1) "On January 21, 2011, Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll hired Bevell to become the new offensive coordinator after firing Jeremy Batesdue to "offensive philosophy difference". The following season, the Seahawks finished 7-9, failing to defend their NFC West title or make the playoffs, while Bevell's offense was 28th in the league. Looking to upgrade from quarterback Tarvaris Jackson, Bevell scouted Wisconsin senior Russell Wilson. He was one of only a few scouts to attend Wilson's pro-day, and the Seahawks ultimately drafted him in the third round. Upon selecting Wilson, coach Pete Carroll stated, "It was Bevell's project"."

(2) "Wide receiver Doug Baldwin, as he has done on other occasions, defended Bevell after the season.

"It's not playcalling. It's not playcalling," Baldwin said. "We go into a game knowing what the defense is going to give us, the situations that we're going to be in. We don't execute as a team. Offensively, that's what we've seen time and time again is that we do not execute the way that we should. And that's on us as players. You guys can blame Bev all you want to, but the truth of the matter is that Bev's not the problem."

Interesting thought. Execution vs coaching...that has been BA's defense of Amos.

Bevell sucks