Cardinals' HC Search Thoughts Part V

[WisconsinCard]

Holy Heck...Jimmy G was NEVER coming to AZ...NEVER...SF was handpicked by Billyboy...He initiated the trade to them...not the other way around. Cleveland offered TWO first round picks for Jimmy G. Billyboy wanted to dump Brady (remember, his philosophy is dump a year early, instead of late), but Brady and Kraft have a strong relationship and Kraft told Billyboy to trade Jimmy G...Instead of taking the best deal he could, on the open market, he took a sweetheart deal from San Fran (trumors say it was to stick it to Kraft, more than helping Jimmy G out).

Serious question though, don't GMs do trades? I guess I never thought that fell under a coaches umbrella. Maybe I'm wrong when it come to BB and his players.

 

[daves]

Serious question though, don't GMs do trades? I guess I never thought that fell under a coaches umbrella. Maybe I'm wrong when it come to BB and his players.

Belichick IS the de-facto GM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick:

Belichick has extensive authority over the Patriots' football operations, effectively making him the general manager of the team as well.

...dbs

 

[GimmedaBall]

Holy Heck...Jimmy G was NEVER coming to AZ...NEVER...SF was handpicked by Billyboy...He initiated the trade to them...not the other way around. Cleveland offered TWO first round picks for Jimmy G. Billyboy wanted to dump Brady (remember, his philosophy is dump a year early, instead of late), but Brady and Kraft have a strong relationship and Kraft told Billyboy to trade Jimmy G...Instead of taking the best deal he could, on the open market, he took a sweetheart deal from San Fran (trumors say it was to stick it to Kraft, more than helping Jimmy G out).

I've seen the narrative regarding the Pats and the trade of Garp to SF. My question was if the Cards participated in the trade talks. The internal soap opera surrounding the Pats is not my concern when it comes to the Cards and their next coach. My point was the Cards have been very conservative under MBSK to take that risk and make a major trade to go after a QB.

Another case in point is sitting still in the last draft while the Chiefs---with a very good QB in Smith already on their roster---jumped ahead of us to take Mahomes (sp?). That's planning for the future and making moves when they see a QB they rated high on the QBOTF.

A coaching candidate is bound to consider what the Cards management is going to do to get him a QB given this kind of 'stay the course' and 'no risk' player acquisition moves during the draft. SK's one year wonder deals with veteran FA's would be a very risky gamble on the part of a new coach when it comes to the necessary turnover and rebuild coming soon to a stadium near you.

 

[TRW]

My thoughts are that the Cardinals will have a HC next season. Beyond that I haven't a clue who they will select, whether or not he was their "first" choice all along or whether all of the other teams with openings got "their" guy first and they had to settle. There are just too many moving parts to single anything out as the "sure" thing IMO.

My belief has always been that no matter how important the top guy is, he needs top notch coordinators under him. If he's a defensive coach he needs an offensive guy as coordinator and vice versa for an offensive coach. I also think you let the coordinators do their jobs and let THEM set the formations and call the plays. The HC needs to be there to advise, for sure, but he needs to be focusing on the flow of the game, the tendencies of the officials on any given Sunday and point out where something needs to change or being adjusted to.

The HC also has to recognize when he has made a mistake on one of his guys and, as hard as it may be, let them go if they can't do the job. Especially at the coordinator position. I don't think Cardinal fans need any reminder of this after the years of Not So Special Teams performances under one Amos Jones.

My hope is that MB&SK pick their guy, whoever that may be, give him the support ($$$$) to sign quality coordinators/assistants and turn them loose. They shouldn't, IMO, insist that he keep ANY of BA's guys unless they truly want to retain them. They pretty much did that with BA and I am supposing they will with the new HC.

I am not as anxious as some on the board seem to be. After all, I've been a fan for over 50 years and been through all of the few ups and numerous downs that comes with that.

No matter what, I will be watching and cheering, or puking as the case may be, when the 2018 season cranks up.

 

[Gandhi]

Giants closing the deal on Shurmur. This is like free agency---the top ones go fast. No time for aded "let's get to know you better" visits. You have to know who you want and go full speed ahead.

This is not meant to be directed at you, Mitch. I have just seen many posters have the same thoughts as you write about in this post.

The Cardinals is a unique team, organization and workplace, just like all the other 31 teams. What works in Detroit, New York or any other team might not work in Arizona, and thus you can’t simply take for granted that the top ones are those that gets hired first, or that the ones that gets hired first are the best ones. Also, just because a team is fast it doesn’t necessarily mean they are right.

I think it is like with free agency and the draft where almost everyone buys into general overall rankings without considering what the Cardinals need and how a player might fit the team. It doesn’t work that way.

 

[Mitch]

This is not meant to be directed at you, Mitch. I have just seen many posters have the same thoughts as you write about in this post.

The Cardinals is a unique team, organization and workplace, just like all the other 31 teams. What works in Detroit, New York or any other team might not work in Arizona, and thus you can’t simply take for granted that the top ones are those that gets hired first, or that the ones that gets hired first are the best ones. Also, just because a team is fast it doesn’t necessarily mean they are right.

I think it is like with free agency and the draft where almost everyone buys into general overall rankings without considering what the Cardinals need and how a player might fit the team. It doesn’t work that way.

I respect what you are saying---and last time the Cardinals were the last to hire and they wound up with the 2nd most successful coach.

However, for right or wrong, I feel like the Cardinals as an organization are almost always a step behind or a step too slow. Look at last year's draft---the Cardinals "GOT MOSSED" by the Chiefs and Texans. Everyone knew the Cardinals wanted a QB---and those teams saw the QBs they liked and traded right in front of the Cardinals. And BOTH those teams were in the playoffs last year, while the Cardinals went 7-8-1.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I respect what you are saying---and last time the Cardinals were the last to hire and they wound up with the 2nd most successful coach.

However, for right or wrong, I feel like the Cardinals as an organization are almost always a step behind or a step too slow. Look at last year's draft---the Cardinals "GOT MOSSED" by the Chiefs and Texans. Everyone knew the Cardinals wanted a QB---and those teams saw the QBs they liked and traded right in front of the Cardinals. And BOTH those teams were in the playoffs last year, while the Cardinals went 7-8-1.

Tentative efforts lead to tentative outcomes. - Epictetus

 

[sdscard4]

It's an opinion. Some believe Shurmer is the top guy to hire. I believe he is one of the worst. I like Munch. His record is much better than Shurmers. We all judge on different things. End of the day we want our Birds to be the best. I like how it's playing out

 

[Cheesebeef]

I respect what you are saying---and last time the Cardinals were the last to hire and they wound up with the 2nd most successful coach.

However, for right or wrong, I feel like the Cardinals as an organization are almost always a step behind or a step too slow. Look at last year's draft---the Cardinals "GOT MOSSED" by the Chiefs and Texans. Everyone knew the Cardinals wanted a QB---and those teams saw the QBs they liked and traded right in front of the Cardinals. And BOTH those teams were in the playoffs last year, while the Cardinals went 7-8-1.

It definitely feels like we still have a re-active/passive FO, between repeatedly getting scooped by the Steelers trading up to get LBers we want or last year QBs and seeing so many guys hit FA last year, taking our very sweet time picking coaches, there seems to be a lack of urgency in the FO in general.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Really fine NFL coach hiring uninteresting. Just make sure you get all the old coaches out.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Belichick IS the de-facto GM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick:


...dbs

Thanks Daves, that makes sense. I guess this was a bad place to ask this question then. I see it often written that this coach or that coach traded so and so.

 

[Harry]

Well as I predicted the good guys appear to be gone. 2 other reasonable options have taken coordinator positions. Would the Cards have the stones to ask for permission to interview them? It would be hard for a team to deny permission when it’s an HC job. Teryl Austin who just moved to the Bengals. Gruden grabbed up Paul Guenther. Both would be interesting choices.

The Seahawks just grabbed Ken Norton Jr from the Niners. Norton had just accepted a position with the Niners, so there is precedent for my idea.

Seems a little weird quoting myself. Just seemed the easiest way.

 

[CFLredzoned]

It definitely feels like we still have a re-active/passive FO, between repeatedly getting scooped by the Steelers trading up to get LBers we want or last year QBs and seeing so many guys hit FA last year, taking our very sweet time picking coaches, there seems to be a lack of urgency in the FO in general.

I don't know. Flying the team plane in blizzard conditions as soon as they were allowed to - to do 9 interviews in 6 cities (if you believe MB). That sounds proactive to me. I'm guessing no other team went to that extreme. But they had to because they knew with no QB and the OL in shambles, it's just a really tough sell.

Where they messed up is not having a QB in place that they drafted last year. If they did, they might have had a chance at Shurmer. At this point, I thinks it's going to be another 'little coach that could' scenario, somebody that was overlooked, with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.

 

[jbjarko]

All in for flip at this point.