Cardinals | Levi Brown likely to hit free agency

[RugbyMuffin]

Make a case for change, but PLEASE don't suggest that there is anything beyond your personal preference to suggest that Dunlap, Essex or Ugoh is an upgrade on Levi. The FA period will offer fair proof as to how teams view this list.

True.

Essex and Dunlap have the tape and stats to back up my opinion.

Ugoh, based on his past ? Same thing.

We had come horrifically awful tackles on our line for that last few years.

They make it too easy for a fan to look through names, stats, and video and find upgrades.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

True.

Essex and Dunlap have the tape and stats to back up my opinion.

Ugoh, based on his past ? Same thing.

We had come horrifically awful tackles on our line for that last few years.

They make it too easy for a fan to look through names, stats, and video and find upgrades.

Really?

Dunlap is such a fine tackle that they tried to turn him into the tallest guard in the history of football. Essex was simply a plug-in in Pitt, which was hardly a leading 0-line. And, if the plan is to convince PM not to sign in AZ.... sign Ugoh.

 

[kerouac9]

It's frightenting to me that so many of the posts on this thread are identical to the ones that posters made when Leonard Davis was allowed to reach free agency. So much certainty that ANYONE we would bring in would be better than Big.

Instead, we ended up with Levi Brown.

Be careful what you wish for, gents.

 

[Totally_Red]

It's frightenting to me that so many of the posts on this thread are identical to the ones that posters made when Leonard Davis was allowed to reach free agency. So much certainty that ANYONE we would bring in would be better than Big.

Instead, we ended up with Levi Brown.

Be careful what you wish for, gents.

I get your point. It could be worse.

But I actually thought Mike Gandy was decent, not good, just decent. Granted that Warner's quick release made him look better than he was & the Steelers did have their way with him in the Super Bowl.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's frightenting to me that so many of the posts on this thread are identical to the ones that posters made when Leonard Davis was allowed to reach free agency. So much certainty that ANYONE we would bring in would be better than Big.

Instead, we ended up with Levi Brown.

Be careful what you wish for, gents.

You are right. It has Leonard Davis written all over it.

 

[TJ]

Not very many people (at least not me) wanted Leonard Davis gone; just moved to his natural position at guard.

This is not Leonard Davis all over again. This is Levi Brown. The only real similarity is that they both wore #75.

I'm really not understanding why so many here are lamenting the likely loss of Levi Brown. I get it was a wasted first round pick in 2007 and potential opportunities were lost (Adrian Peterson for one), but his performance was substandard at best and the franchise desperately needs to move on and upgrade at the position.

 

[john h]

I always wonder what happened to that guy the analysts said Levi was on draft day.. They said he was the leader of the Penn St Oline. He kept everyone in check and motivated. I didnt see that in a Cards uniform from him..

He has a chance to leave here and join a team to become an All Pro. Guys like him who depart often end up as starters on better teams than ours. It is a little more difficult to play for a team that loses 7 in a row than one who wins 7 in a row. Regardless of what one may think winning teams get more out of their players than losing teams. Did he play any part in our strong finish last year? I do not recall. I am always a bit upset when we lose a high draft choice not long after we draft him and that seems much to often.

 

[kerouac9]

Not very many people (at least not me) wanted Leonard Davis gone; just moved to his natural position at guard.

This is not Leonard Davis all over again. This is Levi Brown. The only real similarity is that they both wore #75.

I'm really not understanding why so many here are lamenting the likely loss of Levi Brown. I get it was a wasted first round pick in 2007 and potential opportunities were lost (Adrian Peterson for one), but his performance was substandard at best and the franchise desperately needs to move on and upgrade at the position.

Because I don't refuse to believe the argument that literally nothing is better than Levi Brown. That D'Anthony Batiste is better than Levi Brown. There's nothing to justify that other than longstanding disappointment with Levi Brown due to his draft postion.

You make it CLEAR how similar to Leonard Davis the Levi Brown situation is just five years later. Down to the fact that most of the current OT's detractors are looking longingly to Buffalo's starter!

If there were a clear "upgrade at the position" available, and we'd be sure to get it, then I think that your argument would make more sense. But when Levi Brown gets cut he'll automatically become the best offensive tackle available in free agency, and the draft is a crap shoot at best when it comes to upgrading what you just let leave--as we learned from when we let Leonard Davis leave to pick up Levi Brown.

If Levi Brown leaves, we're forced to exercise the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle. If Levi Brown re-signs, we have the option of using the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle, if a guy we like is there. Otherwise, we can draft one in the third, or in the fifth, or in the 7th.

We have to get 2 starting offensive tackles this offseason. The best one that will be on the market is already on our roster. We're going to let him enter free agency by cutting him because the front office was too shortsighted to see the market in front of them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Not very many people (at least not me) wanted Leonard Davis gone; just moved to his natural position at guard.

This is not Leonard Davis all over again. This is Levi Brown. The only real similarity is that they both wore #75.

I'm really not understanding why so many here are lamenting the likely loss of Levi Brown. I get it was a wasted first round pick in 2007 and potential opportunities were lost (Adrian Peterson for one), but his performance was substandard at best and the franchise desperately needs to move on and upgrade at the position.

agreed.

LD was frustrating because he showed flashes of dominance... just really inconsistent and he was frustrating to watch because a lot of people thought he'd be better at G. Levi Brown isn't frustrating to watch... he's just awful to watch because he's not inconsistent, he's just flat out bad.

 

[bg7brd]

I think it's important to re-sign Levi and move him back to RT. If we let him go we have 0 starting tackles and we will be forced to draft tackle with our first pick. Lets not forget that Levi was a pro bowl alternate at RT in 2009.

 

[az jam]

If Levi Brown leaves, we're forced to exercise the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle. If Levi Brown re-signs, we have the option of using the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle, if a guy we like is there. Otherwise, we can draft one in the third, or in the fifth, or in the 7th.

We have to get 2 starting offensive tackles this offseason. The best one that will be on the market is already on our roster. We're going to let him enter free agency by cutting him because the front office was too shortsighted to see the market in front of them.

What you are saying is unfortunately the reality of the situation. Why on earth we have escalator clauses on the contracts of our high first round picks is beyond me. We make it impossible to resign these guys with the money due on the last year of their contract. That is why we cut Antrel Rolle and now Brown. It would have been the same with Leinart.
The bottom line is that this is a bad year for OTs in freee agency and you are right Levi Brown will be the best available. He will get more money walking then our crack GM Graves will give him.

 

[kerouac9]

What you are saying is unfortunately the reality of the situation. Why on earth do we have escalator clauses on the contracts of our high first round picks is beyond me. We make it impossible to resign these guys with the money due on the last year of their contract. That is why we cut Antrel Rolle and now Brown. It would have been the same with Leinart.
The bottom line is that this is a bad year for OTs in freee agency and you are right Levi Brown will be the best available. He will get more money walking then our crack GM Graves will give him.

Well, the new CBA solved that particular problem for Graves.

The escalator really isn't that big a deal if your Top 15 draft pick works out. Jake Long is making more than $11 million per year in the last two years of his deal, the the Dolphins are going to be more than happy to pay it. Calvin Johnson's cap number on his rookie deal is $17.75 million, but Detroit isn't going to cut him loose.

The problem is when you have an A.J. Hawk/Levi Brown/Antrel Rolle type player, who is due a low-eight-figures guarantee in the last year of their deal, but you don't want to pay it. I think the problem with the Cards is that they don't want to make the kind of committment to Levi Brown (say, for five more years) that would make giving him that kind of guarantee (I think he's slated to make $18 million total this year) conceivable.

Antrel Rolle was a little different situation because guaranteeing the last year of his deal would've paid him more than the contract that Adrian Wilson had just signed, and the Cards weren't willing to do that, because they felt that Adrian Wilson was more valuable to the club (and they were right).

The problem with the Cards is that they allow this kind of brinksmanship to happen in February and early March, and don't look to be proactive to get the deal done the prior summer.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What you are saying is unfortunately the reality of the situation. Why on earth we have escalator clauses on the contracts of our high first round picks is beyond me. We make it impossible to resign these guys with the money due on the last year of their contract. That is why we cut Antrel Rolle and now Brown. It would have been the same with Leinart.
The bottom line is that this is a bad year for OTs in freee agency and you are right Levi Brown will be the best available. He will get more money walking then our crack GM Graves will give him.

Well, how much to you think Levi's worth?

(Keep in mind, that in 2007 - Big's deal to play guard in Dallas averaged $7M a year)

 

[52brandon]

If there were a clear "upgrade at the position" available, and we'd be sure to get it, then I think that your argument would make more sense. But when Levi Brown gets cut he'll automatically become the best offensive tackle available in free agency, and the draft is a crap shoot at best when it comes to upgrading what you just let leave--as we learned from when we let Leonard Davis leave to pick up Levi Brown.

If Levi Brown leaves, we're forced to exercise the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle. If Levi Brown re-signs, we have the option of using the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle, if a guy we like is there. Otherwise, we can draft one in the third, or in the fifth, or in the 7th.

We have to get 2 starting offensive tackles this offseason. The best one that will be on the market is already on our roster. We're going to let him enter free agency by cutting him because the front office was too shortsighted to see the market in front of them.

what makes you think that? According to Bleacher Report, Bell ranks 24th of the top 32 LTs in the NFL, Gaither ranks at 8. Levi Brown on the other hand, isn't even on the list

 

[Vermont Maverick]

What you are saying is unfortunately the reality of the situation. Why on earth we have escalator clauses on the contracts of our high first round picks is beyond me. We make it impossible to resign these guys with the money due on the last year of their contract. That is why we cut Antrel Rolle and now Brown. It would have been the same with Leinart.

I am not typically a front office basher, but this point is correct. That, to me, is the one point about the front office that I have no use for, and is completely undefendable. We draft a guy in the first round, and basically make him a free agent in 5 years, and waive any option to franchise tag the palyer, no matter how good he ends up being. Fortunately for us, rookie contracts are pretty much set in stone now, protecting us from ourselves.

 

[az jam]

Well, the new CBA solved that particular problem for Graves.

The escalator really isn't that big a deal if your Top 15 draft pick works out. Jake Long is making more than $11 million per year in the last two years of his deal, the the Dolphins are going to be more than happy to pay it. Calvin Johnson's cap number on his rookie deal is $17.75 million, but Detroit isn't going to cut him loose.

The problem is when you have an A.J. Hawk/Levi Brown/Antrel Rolle type player, who is due a low-eight-figures guarantee in the last year of their deal, but you don't want to pay it. I think the problem with the Cards is that they don't want to make the kind of committment to Levi Brown (say, for five more years) that would make giving him that kind of guarantee (I think he's slated to make $18 million total this year) conceivable.

Antrel Rolle was a little different situation because guaranteeing the last year of his deal would've paid him more than the contract that Adrian Wilson had just signed, and the Cards weren't willing to do that, because they felt that Adrian Wilson was more valuable to the club (and they were right).

The problem with the Cards is that they allow this kind of brinksmanship to happen in February and early March, and don't look to be proactive to get the deal done the prior summer.

Thanks, some good points. Your last sentence says it all.

 

[kerouac9]

what makes you think that? According to Bleacher Report, Bell ranks 24th of the top 32 LTs in the NFL, Gaither ranks at 8. Levi Brown on the other hand, isn't even on the list

Well, if The Bleacher Report says it, it's almost certainly true. LOL.

Demetrius Bell was 24th for the 6 games that he played last year? Awesome. Pay him $6 million a year. I personally like Jared Gaither. I wanted the Cards to pick him up in the Supplemental Draft when he came out, and I wanted them to go get him in free agency last year. But there's something about Gaither that apparently the Cards coaching staff can't live with, because they've had three bites of that particular apple and haven't taken it.

Levi Brown isn't a world beater, but he's consistent and he's been healthy his entire career. That combined with him likely just entering his prime with a lot of upside (even if he wasn't a Top 10 pick, he was a legitimate first-round talent coming into the draft), and he's the most complete left tackle available in free agency.

The Bleacher Report. Ha ha ha.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Levi Brown isn't a world beater, but he's consistent and he's been healthy his entire career.

he's been consistently BAD his entire career. that's about the only consistency he's had as an NFL football player.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

If Levi Brown leaves, we're forced to exercise the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle. If Levi Brown re-signs, we have the option of using the 13th overall pick on an offensive tackle, if a guy we like is there. Otherwise, we can draft one in the third, or in the fifth, or in the 7th.

We have to get 2 starting offensive tackles this offseason.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. We are going to have to pick for need at 13, just like we did at #5 for Levi Brown. And I don't trust Russ Grimm and whoever else makes the decisions on Tackles. We draft mauler tackles who can't protect the QB, and should be playing guard. We haven't quite got to the 21st Century on that particular aspect of the Tackle position. My nightmare scenerio is a higher ranked -once in a generation Decastro sitting there and us selecting Guard/Tackle Cordy Glenn. (And in 5 years, we will do this all over again. Definition of insanity.

 

[Reddog]

Levi Brown isn't a world beater, but he's consistent and he's been healthy his entire career. That combined with him likely just entering his prime with a lot of upside (even if he wasn't a Top 10 pick, he was a legitimate first-round talent coming into the draft), and he's the most complete left tackle available in free agency.

I agree. He will be overpaid in FA by a team who needs help at OT and who needs one more than us? No one! I suspect we will employ the "Devil You Know strategy" here and bring him back and draft at least two OL.

 

[Totally_Red]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. We are going to have to pick for need at 13, just like we did at #5 for Levi Brown. And I don't trust Russ Grimm and whoever else makes the decisions on Tackles. We draft mauler tackles who can't protect the QB, and should be playing guard. We haven't quite got to the 21st Century on that particular aspect of the Tackle position. My nightmare scenerio is a higher ranked -once in a generation Decastro sitting there and us selecting Guard/Tackle Cordy Glenn. (And in 5 years, we will do this all over again. Definition of insanity.

Nice post! I have the same nightmare. The Cardinals pass on a potential all-pro guard in the mold of Steve Hutchinson to take the 3rd or 4th best tackle based on need, and in a 2-3 years we wonder why our offensive line gives up so many sacks.

Throw-back mauler tackles may have been all the rage in Russ Grimm's hey day, but this is a passing league now, and the ability to pass-protect should be the number one criteria when drafting a tackle IMO. Russ - you aren't in Washington (or Pittsburgh) any more. Join the 21st century!

 

[52brandon]

Well, if The Bleacher Report says it, it's almost certainly true. LOL.

Demetrius Bell was 24th for the 6 games that he played last year? Awesome. Pay him $6 million a year. I personally like Jared Gaither. I wanted the Cards to pick him up in the Supplemental Draft when he came out, and I wanted them to go get him in free agency last year. But there's something about Gaither that apparently the Cards coaching staff can't live with, because they've had three bites of that particular apple and haven't taken it.

Levi Brown isn't a world beater, but he's consistent and he's been healthy his entire career. That combined with him likely just entering his prime with a lot of upside (even if he wasn't a Top 10 pick, he was a legitimate first-round talent coming into the draft), and he's the most complete left tackle available in free agency.

The Bleacher Report. Ha ha ha.

lol, as opposed to the word of a guy on a discussion forum? You may not agree with their particular ranking, but I have never seen any rating that has Levi Brown above either of them. Most have him at or near the very bottom in the NFL. I also have watched Levi get smoked his whole career. I'd rather use a nobody and at least save the money than the Jamarcus Russell of LTs

 

[Crazy Canuck]

lol, as opposed to the word of a guy on a discussion forum? You may not agree with their particular ranking, but I have never seen any rating that has Levi Brown above either of them. Most have him at or near the very bottom in the NFL. I also have watched Levi get smoked his whole career. I'd rather use a nobody and at least save the money than the Jamarcus Russell of LTs

Jamarcus was out of the League before his first contract was up.

Care to venture a guess as to how much Levi will be paid come September?

 

[52brandon]

Jamarcus was out of the League before his first contract was up.

Care to venture a guess as to how much Levi will be paid come September?

Levi should be


and my guess would be somewhere around $5M. But I've been shocked what some of they guys we let walk made recently though. Rolle really threw me off. I hope some dumb franchise pays lik $10M/yr for Levi, but I wouldn't say he's worth $3M

 

[kerouac9]

lol, as opposed to the word of a guy on a discussion forum? You may not agree with their particular ranking, but I have never seen any rating that has Levi Brown above either of them. Most have him at or near the very bottom in the NFL. I also have watched Levi get smoked his whole career. I'd rather use a nobody and at least save the money than the Jamarcus Russell of LTs

The Bleacher Report is essentially a discussion forum. Those guys get paid to write about football exactly as much as I do. They're probably less qualified than I am to do so, and my qualifications are extremely limited.

That being said, you saying that Levi Brown is the Jamarcus Russell of LTs just shows how little you know about the situation, or how easily you're willing to exaggerate your point. Levi Brown has been better than Robert Gallery.

Jason Smith is the Jamarcus Russell of LTs. Chris Williams is the Jamarcus Russell of LTs.

I get that it's super-frustrating to see Levi Brown be awful to begin the season year after year, but every year he's improved as the season went on. But he's still a legitimate starting offensive lineman in the NFL, and that's more than what you can say about all but two of the other players in this free agent class.