Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

[TRW]

I can easily root to lose. I think long term. I don’t want to be in purgatory. That’s worse than being awful. We can talk about Kyler playing like ass & Kliff being clueless all day long, but what does it matter if the king of purgatory is driving the ship?

At my age I can't afford that, especially when it comes to the Cardinals. LOL

 

[Shane]

I can easily root to lose. I think long term. I don’t want to be in purgatory. That’s worse than being awful. We can talk about Kyler playing like ass & Kliff being clueless all day long, but what does it matter if the king of purgatory is driving the ship?

Certainly can’t argue it bro

 

[football karma]

I will just add this here-- this is another element to the struggles of the offense. Kyler has been terrible on longer passes. -- BTW: you have to click through to see the bottom of this ranking and where Kyler sits

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[TRW]

I love how the colorful metaphors change, going from "garbage", "trash", etc. to "ass". Gotta love ASFN. LOL

 

[BritCard]

I've been thinking about this scenario.

What if a team loaded up on big, strong, tough OL and a premium RB, but then mixed in modern passing concepts. Basically a modern version of the 90s Cowboys

Teams aren't built to defend this model.

The only short term fix I can come up with is come off the run game a bunch. Like 35/65 run pass. And use the short pass game we currently have and Kyler's legs to replace that difference.

Our run game is just drive killing. The efficiency must be the worst in the league. Kyler has some major throwing issues but if we can get out of so many 2nd and 8's and 3rd and 6 situations it will be easier.

And we can never run vs the Saints at the best of time so now is the time to do it.

If we have 60 offensive plays make max 20 of them RB carries. Maybe 10 of them Kyler runs.

Also, stop the screens. We just don't have the players to block in space. Stop dropping Moore into the flat. It's a waste of a player who could be running route. Moore should be running slants and deep crossers and getting the ball with space to run.

 

[DVontel]

And for the “I miss Carson Palmer” people…for what? I enjoyed Carson for the most part, but you guys realize we won only 1 playoff game despite having a much better coaching staff & that 1 playoff game was against a depleted Packers team in OT, correct? Stop acting like his time here as if we had Peyton Manning.

Crazy how that’s the highlight of the Keim era so far.

 

[football karma]

The only short term fix I can come up with is come off the run game a bunch.

while not the only issue: our RBs get whats blocked and not much more. I felt like Benjamin took 10 yard runs and cut right into a tackle at yard 5.

you could see the diff between him and Kenneth Walker, who sure looks like a high end back. The good news is that Pete will run him so much, he will be cooked in three years.

 

[BritCard]

I will just add this here-- this is another element to the struggles of the offense. Kyler has been terrible on longer passes. -- BTW: you have to click through to see the bottom of this ranking and where Kyler sits

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It's bad enough that he's 27th in attempts but only 25% is dire. He's nearly twice as bad as Justin Fields!

For context Kyler had a 47% completion percentage over 20 yards last season.

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[Shane]

It's bad enough that he's 27th in attempts but only 25% is dire. He's nearly twice as bad as Justin Fields!

For context Kyler had a 47% completion percentage over 20 yards last season.

You must be registered for see images attach

Just saying he’s worse then Justin Fields is enough sadly… I don’t even need to see the numbers. Smh

 

[Shane]

I would really like to be in the film room when the offense and coaches are going over the game. How is this stuff approached with Kyler? I betting it’s largely ignored. To keep the golden boy happy.

I mean serious question does anybody see he’s getting drilled over this in the team film sessions?

 

[BritCard]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route. I'm not sure Green gets home but still.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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[BritCard]

I mean serious question does anybody see he’s getting drilled over this in the team film sessions?

You would like to think so. We really don't know. We assume assume as Kliff is a cool dude that he likes Kyler slide on stuff. That's always been the narrative. But I don't believe we know. I don't recall any actual evidence to back this up.

I'm looking forward to Hard Knocks and hoping we find out.

 

[speedy]

Thanks for doing this @BritCard. If only Bruce Lee would put in the same amount of time to break his behaviors, patterns, and tendencies down.

Im no fan of Kliff, but this isnt a Kliff problem- this is clearly a Kyler problem.

I have seen similar behavior patterns from some of my Asian Male students throughout the years. These guys (3 that I can easily recall) had great difficulty taking criticism, being coached, and changing their behaviors based on the priors. They too, almost seemed as if they thought they were the smartest, fastest, and most gifted people in the course (and I was just some pesky grey whiskered inferior human who didn't understand their amazing skill sets ). I am certainly not painting with a broad brush (because I have taught many Asian men and women who did not have these attitudes), but I do feel there are certain traits that are common based on any culture.

I am squarely in the F Kyler camp right now. I am almost leaning into the bench his ace too, as has already been suggested. If such heavy investments werent already made (1st round pick/$250 million man/org poster child), he likely would have been benched.

That's not to say those above him are immune and Kyler is the sole problem. The 3 (KK, SK, and MB) all deserve equal criticism because it is obvious they ALL have known what a ish head Kyler is (ie- the study clause), and essentially rewarded (enabled) the behavior...

What a joke of an organization. No balls, No leadership. To be quite honest, I like KK more than all of them when grading on a curve.

P.S. A very reliable source told me Larry couldn't stand him, and quoted Larry: "He's not a good guy." I think I am understanding what that means with each passing day.

 

[urs]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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Wrong. This is one of our classic plays where we have tiny WR try to block 2 guys while another receiver gets the pass behind it. It never works. Literally never. But we run it 8 times a game. Green didn't wait to get the pass (probably because he knows that play sucks)

 

[Chopper0080]

I get that, I just don't see why. We never do this. I don't recall ever seeing it before. Why do it on the edge of our end zone on 3rd down vs 3 rushers? It's making things more complicated than required.

Moving the pocket changes the rush angles of the edge players. It is done to help your OL.

 

[BritCard]

Moving the pocket changes the rush angles of the edge players. It is done to help your OL.

Again, I get that. I just don't understand why we did it in that situation vs 3 rushers when we needed 25 yards for a 1st down.

If it was 3rd down in the red zone vs the Cowboys pass rush with the game on the line then it might be a wise choice. But against a poor Seahawks pass rush only rushing 3?

 

[BritCard]

Wrong. This is one of our classic plays where we have tiny WR try to block 2 guys while another receiver gets the pass behind it. It never works. Literally never. But we run it 8 times a game. Green didn't wait to get the pass (probably because he knows that play sucks)

It's clearly a rub because Brown is waiting for and expecting the outside defender to run into him and Green clearly runs and inside slant.

When they run the play your suggest they line up stacked.

 

[football karma]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route. I'm not sure Green gets home but still.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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good grief: [edit] just throw the ball at the top left of the "S" in the endzone and its an easy TD in the corner

 

[Chopper0080]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route. I'm not sure Green gets home but still.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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This one is interesting because it shows Kyler predetermining where he is going with the ball pre-snap. There is a huge void in the back corner and no rush to throw the rub route once you identify that pre snap. Post snap you should just be keying on the inside DB and if he drops, hit the slant and if he stays, throw the corner.

 

[BritCard]

good grief: just wait a 1/2 second more and Hollywood is wide open for an easy TD in the corner

Oh yeah that too. I meant to point that out.

Knowing the play and how much space is in that back corner why not just take a breath and float one into there for Hollywood?

This is a major issue with his pre snap reads. It's Kyler's job to mentally lay the play they are running over what he thinks the defense is doing and then decide his progressions based on that.

And Brown should be the only read here.

 

[Chopper0080]

Again, I get that. I just don't understand why we did it in that situation vs 3 rushers when we needed 25 yards for a 1st down.

If it was 3rd down in the red zone vs the Cowboys pass rush with the game on the line then it might be a wise choice. But against a poor Seahawks pass rush only rushing 3?

It helps your oline to give your QB more time to enable WRs to get down field. It also can open up escape routes for the QB

 

[unseenaz]

Awesome thread, great breakdowns.

Now I'm depressed, thanks.

 

[BritCard]

This one is interesting because it shows Kyler predetermining where he is going with the ball pre-snap. There is a huge void in the back corner and no rush to throw the rub route once you identify that pre snap. Post snap you should just be keying on the inside DB and if he drops, hit the slant and if he stays, throw the corner.

Yes I meant to point this out. This was supposed to be the first play I posted but I missed it. But the 2nd thing I saw after the terrible throw was that Brown should be the first read here and all Kyler had to do is wait another half second.

Heck he could even pump fake to Green to put a break on the safeties and then Brown would be wide open in the back corner for a TD.

 

[football karma]

one kinda meta thought on all this:

if you fire Kliff -- it says to Kyler that Kliff was the problem, not him

you would need to bring in a super strong HC

 

[urs]

By the way, it's cool you took the time to do these breakdowns, Brit...but this doesn't give us a lot of info really unless you know what the progressions and routes for each play are. If you do, please let us know! Kyler's decision making MAY have been bad on Sunday, likely it was...but I'm more concerned with his accuracy and his awful footwork. Do they have coaches to work with him on this stuff? If he refuses to work on it why hasn't anyone in the org spoken out? The accuracy drop is pretty bad, astonishing actually, even open receivers are having to jump or dive for passes. I wonder if this is a physical thing, injury of some sort, its' not all mechanics because those have sucked forever and he's always been quite accurate.