Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

[Brian in Mesa]

Yes that’s who he’s referring to reference Larry…. There were rumblings they didn’t get along everyone just dismissed it.

It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't the whole K1 + KK combo that made Larry realize retirement sounded rather nice. Young QB that didn't care for film study and some of the other aspects of being a leader and a young coach that couldn't figure out the offense.

 

[reebokalone2001]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route. I'm not sure Green gets home but still.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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And Brown is wide open running an out route in the EZ. The safety, I believe, reacted wrong and failed to take Brown on his route. He has nothing but 10 yards of grass in front of him.

 

[FXMaster]

Indeed!! These types of play overviews with the high whole field camera work are greatly appreciated. They tell more of the story than the tv angles. From a play call/game plan perspective this is probably the same game plan they used last year when our 37yr old back up SMOKED them.

Brace yourself. Thursday is probably not gonna be any better.

 

[Snakester]

I mean serious question does anybody see he’s getting drilled over this in the team film sessions?

He should be getting drilled big time. BA had his quarterback guru going over every mistake with the QB on the sidelines during the game. He made his quarterback learn from his mistakes as he made them. This is what should be happening to Murray but I think he mostly gets a pat on the back with somebody saying you’ll get them next time. I just don’t see the proper coaching. He needs to be told what he’s doing wrong and not coddled.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Thanks for doing this @BritCard. If only Bruce Lee would put in the same amount of time to break his behaviors, patterns, and tendencies down.

Im no fan of Kliff, but this isnt a Kliff problem- this is clearly a Kyler problem.

I have seen similar behavior patterns from some of my Asian Male students throughout the years. These guys (3 that I can easily recall) had great difficulty taking criticism, being coached, and changing their behaviors based on the priors. They too, almost seemed as if they thought they were the smartest, fastest, and most gifted people in the course (and I was just some pesky grey whiskered inferior human who didn't understand their amazing skill sets ). I am certainly not painting with a broad brush (because I have taught many Asian men and women who did not have these attitudes), but I do feel there are certain traits that are common based on any culture.

I am squarely in the F Kyler camp right now. I am almost leaning into the bench his ace too, as has already been suggested. If such heavy investments werent already made (1st round pick/$250 million man/org poster child), he likely would have been benched.

That's not to say those above him are immune and Kyler is the sole problem. The 3 (KK, SK, and MB) all deserve equal criticism because it is obvious they ALL have known what a ish head Kyler is (ie- the study clause), and essentially rewarded (enabled) the behavior...

What a joke of an organization. No balls, No leadership. To be quite honest, I like KK more than all of them when grading on a curve.

P.S. A very reliable source told me Larry couldn't stand him, and quoted Larry: "He's not a good guy." I think I am understanding what that means with each passing day.

You encapsulate my feelings exactly.

Pretty every time you see a film breakdown of Kyler, it's pretty much exactly like this: there are plays Kyler just isn't making! And it's a constant thing.

This is why I don't fault Kliff's offense...we see a lot of plays with open receivers for big gains. I fault Kliff's game management, sure, but his greatest strength is being wasted by a QB who isn't executing the offense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He should be getting drilled big time. BA had his quarterback guru going over every mistake with the QB on the sidelines during the game. He made his quarterback learn from his mistakes as he made them. This is what should be happening to Murray but I think he mostly gets a pat on the back with somebody saying you’ll get them next time. I just don’t see the proper coaching. He needs to be told what he’s doing wrong and not coddled.

Maybe he isn't coachable?

 

[reebokalone2001]

“Times QBs were hurried - defined as a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”

Ummmm what? Are you just making this up as you go or do you truly believe what you just said? I listed the definition above for you since you’re obviously confused. It says directly in there that he’s is forced to throw earlier than he intends to. So he is being forced to throw the ball in 2.2 seconds within the pocket….. that’s not good! Has Kyler been bad, Yes! Terrible!!! Has his Oline been good? No not even close. The entire offense is BAD!!!

Not to argue just curious how do analysts know when Kyler intends to throw?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Remember posters telling us our WR's suck and that they are always covered? That its a scheme thing?

Yeah I never bought that because I see open receivers ALL OF THE TIME.

 

[Russ Smith]

Wouldn’t that be on the coaches for not pointing that out and making adjustments?

My thing is I completely accept everything Britcard is posting is accurate, the pictures and video don't lie. The problem is, we gave Kyler 250 million dollars, we are NOT going to bench him for 36 year old Colt McCoy. I'm not saying that's right I'm saying it is how it is, he's going to be the QB for the forseeable future.

We are in year 4 of Kliff and Kyler and Kyler is regressing and looks completely lost. People remember the old show White Shadow the episode where Coolidge gets mad at Thorpe over a girl and Coach tells Thorpe "look in the end you either gotta make up or have it out, and he's a LOT bigger than you are." Point being even if Kliff is being blamed for Kylers mistakes, in the end it's his job to make Kyler better and Kyler is now getting worse. So the logical conclusion is they're going to fire Kliff over it if it doesn't get fixed soon.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think that's generous with the safety. He must be a good 20 yards away. Plenty of space there for Kyler to drop a pass into. He shouldn't really be voiding that route because the safety took a step or we'll never complete a deep pass again.

It's 3rd and long. He knows the defense is going to pin their ears back. He should know he has to make a quick decision here because it's 50/50 that he will have more than 2.5 seconds to get it off.

Yeah I'm not saying you're wrong I'm saying I see why Kyler didn't throw it there he saw the safety and decided there must be an easier throw and took the one that wasn't going to get anything. I agree he should have pushed it downfield there.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is the 3rd early in the 4th that was thrown behind Ertz.

It was a nicely designed play. A crossing route with Moore on the wheel to pull the defender out and make space for Ertz. This is an easy 1st down and more. Probably takes this inside the 5 if it's thrown on target.

Instead we go to 4th down and Harlow gets pushed back and Kyler is sacked. Nothing Kyler could do on the 4th down play. But the line kept him clean most of the game.

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And here it is from the EZ angle where you can see how far behind it is. Ertz did well to catch it.

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That one had me screaming at Ertz to get up and run because he stayed down too long. then i saw the replay and apologized profusely when I realized how badly thrown the ball was and how wide open it was. Terrible throw.

 

[kerouac9]

My thing is I completely accept everything Britcard is posting is accurate, the pictures and video don't lie. The problem is, we gave Kyler 250 million dollars, we are NOT going to bench him for 36 year old Colt McCoy. I'm not saying that's right I'm saying it is how it is, he's going to be the QB for the forseeable future.

We are in year 4 of Kliff and Kyler and Kyler is regressing and looks completely lost. People remember the old show White Shadow the episode where Coolidge gets mad at Thorpe over a girl and Coach tells Thorpe "look in the end you either gotta make up or have it out, and he's a LOT bigger than you are." Point being even if Kliff is being blamed for Kylers mistakes, in the end it's his job to make Kyler better and Kyler is now getting worse. So the logical conclusion is they're going to fire Kliff over it if it doesn't get fixed soon.

Yes, we are entering the "Transitioning from Dan Reeves to Jim Mora and Greg Knapp to see if the west coast offense can "fix" Michael Vick" phase.

 

[BritCard]

“Times QBs were hurried - defined as a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”

Ummmm what? Are you just making this up as you go or do you truly believe what you just said? I listed the definition above for you since you’re obviously confused. It says directly in there that he’s is forced to throw earlier than he intends to. So he is being forced to throw the ball in 2.2 seconds within the pocket….. that’s not good! Has Kyler been bad, Yes! Terrible!!! Has his Oline been good? No not even close. The entire offense is BAD!!!

Hurries are part of the pressure percentage so I know for a fact its not an issue.

I've literally just watched every play of Kyler being clean 90% of the time.

There is no O line issue. It's a desperate straw to clutch.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes, we are entering the "Transitioning from Dan Reeves to Jim Mora and Greg Knapp to see if the west coast offense can "fix" Michael Vick" phase.

Ken Reeves, White Shadow keep up (-:

Yeah that's my fear too but to be fair to my knowledge Kyler has only had 1 QB coach in his life, his dad. He needs to be allowed to try and get better with someone else given how much money we paid him. If it doesn't work ok you cut your losses but , Kliff IMO has shown repeatedly he's over in his head as a coach, time management when to go on 4th down etc.

 

[Shane]

Ken Reeves, White Shadow keep up (-:

Yeah that's my fear too but to be fair to my knowledge Kyler has only had 1 QB coach in his life, his dad. He needs to be allowed to try and get better with someone else given how much money we paid him. If it doesn't work ok you cut your losses but , Kliff IMO has shown repeatedly he's over in his head as a coach, time management when to go on 4th down etc.

I don’t believe that was his dad on staff in each of his universities? He had to of had other quarterback coaches? Whether he listened to any of them is the story?

 

[Chopper0080]

Ken Reeves, White Shadow keep up (-:

Yeah that's my fear too but to be fair to my knowledge Kyler has only had 1 QB coach in his life, his dad. He needs to be allowed to try and get better with someone else given how much money we paid him. If it doesn't work ok you cut your losses but , Kliff IMO has shown repeatedly he's over in his head as a coach, time management when to go on 4th down etc.

I disagree with this statement. Kliff has shown that he is incapable of reaching Kyler Murray and he can't overcome Kyler's poor QB play. The best thing for Kliff would be to have an OC so he could show he can improve on the other things when he doesn't have to focus all of his attention on Kyler.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t believe that was his dad on staff in each of his universities? He had to of had other quarterback coaches? Whether he listened to any of them is the story?

He hasn't needed to listen to anyone else because he had it super easy at Oklahoma.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't the whole K1 + KK combo that made Larry realize retirement sounded rather nice. Young QB that didn't care for film study and some of the other aspects of being a leader and a young coach that couldn't figure out the offense.

Are you following this thread? There are plenty of open players. I think the coach has the offense figured out. The QB is just more interested in Call of Duty than winning football games.

 

[Shane]

He hasn't needed to listen to anyone else because he had it super easy at Oklahoma.

I don’t doubt that at all but they had to have other quarterback coaches on staff

 

[BritCard]

Yes, we are entering the "Transitioning from Dan Reeves to Jim Mora and Greg Knapp to see if the west coast offense can "fix" Michael Vick" phase.

This is why I'm not on the "fire Kliff" train.

Its clear there are open guys all the time. Kliff can't throw the ball.

This is an offense Kyler has been in 3 years and some variation of his whole career. How is some new HC or OC coming in going to help when he has to learn a whole new playbook, verbiage and playing style?

Kliff has his issues but I think firing him makes Kyler worse. I think adding an old school veteran take no **** OC to sit between him and Kyler would help everyone.

I'd love that to be Jim Caldwell who has great experience as a QB coach, OC and HC.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My thing is I completely accept everything Britcard is posting is accurate, the pictures and video don't lie. The problem is, we gave Kyler 250 million dollars, we are NOT going to bench him for 36 year old Colt McCoy. I'm not saying that's right I'm saying it is how it is, he's going to be the QB for the forseeable future.

We are in year 4 of Kliff and Kyler and Kyler is regressing and looks completely lost. People remember the old show White Shadow the episode where Coolidge gets mad at Thorpe over a girl and Coach tells Thorpe "look in the end you either gotta make up or have it out, and he's a LOT bigger than you are." Point being even if Kliff is being blamed for Kylers mistakes, in the end it's his job to make Kyler better and Kyler is now getting worse. So the logical conclusion is they're going to fire Kliff over it if it doesn't get fixed soon.

I accept this, but what this breakdown is showing is that "the system works"...it's just that the operator of the system doesn't.

Kliff is ultimately going to be held responsible even though in a perfect world, youd have another guy come in and run the offense. But in the real world, Kyler was given a quarter billion, so the easier move is to change the coach.

This is classic coachkiller stuff

 

[Chopper0080]

Are you following this thread? There are plenty of open players. I think the coach has the offense figured out. The QB is just more interested in Call of Duty than winning football games.

I think the lack of accountability and self awareness is a bigger deal than Call of Duty.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is why I'm not on the "fire Kliff" train.

Its clear there are open guys all the time. Kliff can't throw the ball.

This is an offense Kyler has been in 3 years and some variation of his whole career. How is some new HC or OC coming in going to help when he has to learn a whole new playbook, verbiage and playing style?

Kliff has his issues but I think firing him makes Kyler worse. I think adding an old school veteran take no **** OC to sit between him and Kyler would help everyone.

I'd love that to be Jim Caldwell who has great experience as a QB coach, OC and HC.

Someone has to go, and it isn't the guy who you get an over $80 million dead cap hit.

It's kind of like how in a perfect world, NATO would directly intervene in Ukraine, but realpolitik is that you can't.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the lack of accountability and self awareness is a bigger deal than Call of Duty.

I'm talking tongue in cheek.

I definitely agree this is on Murray.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t doubt that at all but they had to have other quarterback coaches on staff

But when you are trashing Kansas you can just give that coach lip service. Similar to what he does with Kliff but he never had to struggle.