Cardinals' Thoughts Du Jour

Mitch

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1. Saturday 1/1/11 4 PM EST. The significance of this is that teams have until then to re-sign players AND be able to assign portions of the signing bonuses to this year's team salary figures (capless year).

With all the $$$ the Bidwills saved this year...it sure would be nice to get contracts secured for G Deuce Lutui, WR Steve Breaston, C Lyle Sendlein, DE Alan Branch, etc.

While they are at it...how about using some of the saved money to make WR Larry Fitzgerald a career Arizona Cardinal---the date 1-1-11 is an auspicious sign for doing right by Fitz.

2. I believe that over the past few years the team learned more about winning from QB Kurt Warner than any of the coaches---do you remember Warner being interviewed following games that preceded the playoffs? Do you remember how often Warner talked about the "mentality" it takes to win playoff games---and how he had been instructing his teammates about what it takes to prepare and win?

The thing that is glaringly missing without Warner is the spontaneous in-game play calls in key situations---where Warner and the WRs would discuss what they thought would be wide open in the right situations (especially on 3rd downs and in the Red Zone) and they would even draw the plays in the dirt if they had to.

What Whiz was so smart about was giving Warner the autonomy to make such adjustments---much the way Tony Dungy and Tom Moore did with Peyton Manning.

One of the most lasting images I have of Warner is how the cameras showed him taking notes on the sidelines while the team was getting their butts handed to them by the Packers in the last regular season game last year. There is no question in my mind that Warner was drafting the blueprint for the following week's stunning victory...a victory which required Warner and the offense to score virtually every time they touched the ball---which is practically what Warner and the offense did.

I think that Packer game may be the best and most clutch quarterbacked game I have ever seen---certainly for a Cardinal QB.

For all of these reasons and more...I would do everything and anything possible to sign Warner as the offensive coordinator---and I would even be tempted to sign him as the head coach.

While Warner may appear to be content working as a FOX analyst---and he's pretty darned good at it already---there is little doubt that Warner thrives on competition (especially the mental part of it) so much that the offer to have him coach might excite him very much.

Interestingly, there was an article about the Chiefs recently where Todd Haley told the media how he learned "in recent years" that sometimes it is best to "draw up plays in the dirt" because making spontaneous in-game adjustments can mean the difference between winning and losing.

Wonder where Haley got that from?

I think of the sheer fun Warner and Haley had drawing up plays each week and on the plane rides...as they did on the way to Carolina where they conjured up the flea flicker pass to Fitz...to cite one example.

I will say this...all we've been hearing from Whiz in his remarks about John Skelton is how he's leaving many plays out there because he's not finding the open WRs...well, Warner would take care of this, because with Warner the primary and secondary options and progressions would be much clearer and much more quickly and effectively communicated.

I am not saying that Whiz is throughly incompetent at this. I just strongly believe that Warner is brilliant at it...Warner played the position---he mastered it and he understands it---he knows what a QB sees and thinks better than anyone else. And he picks up on the nuances of coverages so much faster---which is why teams were doo-dooing in their pants at the thought of blitzing him.

Another major reason for turning to Warner as OC is that Whiz is too tough a coach on QBs---he's too exacting---too non-commital (can he ever decide on a QB?)---too vague in his communication. Warner knows what environment a QB needs in order to be consistently successful---and he himself---despite having to play every year for his job under Whisenhunt, ugh, save the last one---managed to wrest the ultimate control of the offense away from Whiz---and Whiz was smart to let it go.

Moreover---Warner was about the HUNGRIEST QB the Cardinals have ever seen---not only for wins---but for STATS. Warner was insatiable when it came to his desire to put up huge numbers---not only for himself but especially for his WRs and his RBs.

THAT has been alarmingly absent this year---especially in Whiz, who never met a 4th and 1 he liked this year---which is why he punted and punted and punted...worst of all, he punted several times on 4th and inches.

Shows no confidence in the offense and the QB---and damages their morale.

3. I would like to know who Kurt Warner would want the Cardinals to sign as a free agent QB next year. I wonder what he really thinks about Marc Bulger.

The thing is...Bulger in recent years seemed to have very little HUNGER for winning or for stats. One Ram player last year said that Bulger brought "no presence" to the position. And---be honest---did you ever worry about playing the Rams with Bulger at QB?

In my Predicting the 2010 Roster thread...I was predicting what the Cardinals will do---not what I would do.

I don't like Bulger. I only liked him when he was playing soft against us.

But...if Kurt Warner thought he could whip Bulger up...that he could get him hungry...I'd be very interested to see what would happen.

The matchup of Whiz and Bulger seems like a disaster---

Whiz likes his QBs tough---first and foremost---like Warner was, tough as nails.

The minute Bulger takes a dive the way DA did on a few occasions this year---Whiz will be looking over to the bench.

4. This is why John Skelton has a fighting chance to make it as the Cardinals starting QB. He does not play afraid. Plus, he's so sturdy in the pocket and can maneuver well with his feet. That's a special ability.

Max Hall doesn't play afraid either---but he's like the terrier who barks at a coyote---the problem is---he will have to get much stronger physically, the way Drew Bress did, and he has to be much more clever about how to duck, slither and avoid the big hits.

But can you imagine how prepared Skelton would be with Kurt Warner walking him through the paces?

Wow.

Kurt Warner was the best thing to ever happen to the Arizona Cardinals.

Go and bring him back.
 
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Cardiac

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Kurt Warner probably was the best thing ever to happen to the Cards and one of the best human beings on this planet. I don't however believe he walks on water and is the sole reason this team went to the SB.

He will not become a AC or OC for any team because of the crazy hours those positions require. He has a lot of different things he wants to accomplish and being a coach in the NFL would take up all of his time.

If KW wanted to be an OC then I would be all for it, just isn't going to happen (IMWO).
 

john h

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1. Saturday 1/1/11 4 PM EST. The significance of this is that teams have until then to re-sign players AND be able to assign portions of the signing bonuses to this year's team salary figures (capless year).

With all the $$$ the Bidwills saved this year...it sure would be nice to get contracts secured for G Deuce Lutui, WR Steve Breaston, C Lyle Sendlein, DE Alan Branch, etc.

While they are at it...how about using some of the saved money to make WR Larry Fitzgerald a career Arizona Cardinal---the date 1-1-11 is an auspicious sign for doing right by Fitz.

2. I believe that over the past few years the team learned more about winning from QB Kurt Warner than any of the coaches---do you remember Warner being interviewed following games that preceded the playoffs? Do you remember how often Warner talked about the "mentality" it takes to win playoff games---and how he had been instructing his teammates about what it takes to prepare and win?

The thing that is glaringly missing without Warner is the spontaneous in-game play calls in key situations---where Warner and the WRs would discuss what they thought would be wide open in the right situations (especially on 3rd downs and in the Red Zone) and they would even draw the plays in the dirt if they had to.

What Whiz was so smart about was giving Warner the autonomy to make such adjustments---much the way Tony Dungy and Tom Moore did with Peyton Manning.

One of the most lasting images I have of Warner is how the cameras showed him taking notes on the sidelines while the team was getting their butts handed to them by the Packers in the last regular season game last year. There is no question in my mind that Warner was drafting the blueprint for the following week's stunning victory...a victory which required Warner and the offense to score virtually every time they touched the ball---which is practically what Warner and the offense did.

I think that Packer game may be the best and most clutch quarterbacked game I have ever seen---certainly for a Cardinal QB.

For all of these reasons and more...I would do everything and anything possible to sign Warner as the offensive coordinator---and I would even be tempted to sign him as the head coach.

While Warner may appear to be content working as a FOX analyst---and he's pretty darned good at it already---there is little doubt that Warner thrives on competition (especially the mental part of it) so much that the offer to have him coach might excite him very much.

Interestingly, there was an article about the Chiefs recently where Todd Haley told the media how he learned "in recent years" that sometimes it is best to "draw up plays in the dirt" because making spontaneous in-game adjustments can mean the difference between winning and losing.

Wonder where Haley got that from?

I think of the sheer fun Warner and Haley had drawing up plays each week and on the plane rides...as they did on the way to Carolina where they conjured up the flea flicker pass to Fitz...to cite one example.

I will say this...all we've been hearing from Whiz in his remarks about John Skelton is how he's leaving many plays out there because he's not finding the open WRs...well, Warner would take care of this, because with Warner the primary and secondary options and progressions would be much clearer and much more quickly and effectively communicated.

I am not saying that Whiz is throughly incompetent at this. I just strongly believe that Warner is brilliant at it...Warner played the position---he mastered it and he understands it---he knows what a QB sees and thinks better than anyone else. And he picks up on the nuances of coverages so much faster---which is why teams were doo-dooing in their pants at the thought of blitzing him.

Another major reason for turning to Warner as OC is that Whiz is too tough a coach on QBs---he's too exacting---too non-commital (can he ever decide on a QB?)---too vague in his communication. Warner knows what environment a QB needs in order to be consistently successful---and he himself---despite having to play every year for his job under Whisenhunt, ugh, save the last one---managed to wrest the ultimate control of the offense away from Whiz---and Whiz was smart to let it go.

Moreover---Warner was about the HUNGRIEST QB the Cardinals have ever seen---not only for wins---but for STATS. Warner was insatiable when it came to his desire to put up huge numbers---not only for himself but especially for his WRs and his RBs.

THAT has been alarmingly absent this year---especially in Whiz, who never met a 4th and 1 he liked this year---which is why he punted and punted and punted...several times on 4th and inches.

Shows no confidence in the offense and the QB---and damages their morale.

3. I would like to know who Kurt Warner would want the Cardinals to sign as a free agent QB next year. I wonder what he really thinks about Marc Bulger.

The thing is...Bulger in recent years seemed to have very little HUNGER for winning or for stats. One Ram player last year said that Bulger brought "no presence" to the position. And---be honest---did you ever worry about playing the Rams with Bulger at QB?

In my Predicting the 2010 Roster thread...I was predicting what the Cardinals will do---not what I would do.

I don't like Bulger. I only liked him when he was playing soft against us.

But...if Kurt Warner thought he could whip Bulger up...that he could get him hungry...I'd be very interested to see what would happen.

The matchup of Whiz and Bulger seems like a disaster---

Whiz likes his QBs tough---first and foremost---like Warner was, tough as nails.

The minute Bulger takes a dive the way DA did on a few occasions this year---Whiz will be looking over to the bench.

4. This is why John Skelton has a fighting chance to make it as the Cardinals starting QB. He does not play afraid. Plus, he's so sturdy in the pocket and can maneuver well with his feet. That's a special ability.

Max Hall doesn't play afraid either---but he's like the terrier who barks at a coyote---the problem is---he will have to get much stronger physically, the way Drew Bress did, and he has to be much more clever about how to duck, slither and avoid the big hits.

But can you imagine how prepared Skelton would be with Kurt Warner walking him through the paces?

Wow.

Kurt Warner was the best thing to ever happen to the Arizona Cardinals.

Get him back.

Great post as usual Mitch. The one thing I would disagree on or do not think can happen is extending Fitz. Fitz made it very clear that at this point in his career it is no longer about money but winning a Superbowl. He said if he never earned another dollar he has all the money he will ever need. That says it all. He is not the kind of guy to talk with a forked tongue. The Bidwills have a long history of being cheap. I see no reason why we should expect anything different this year. What I would not give to see their books for the past 25 years. We have left so much money on the table for the Bidwills which should have gone towards improving the team. The Bidwills and Cards got very very lucky with Kurt. Other teams thought he was washed up. We got him because he was cheap not because we saw his potential. Even some on this board were screaming when we signed Kurt. Luck like this does not come along very often. I see no Kurt Warners in FA. The stars also aligned for us with having Warner Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston. We had perhaps the best QB and receivers in the NFL the last half of our Superbowl year. How can we ever top this? One way to start would to get lucky with a QB in the draft.

Other: My choice for the most valuable player in the NFL this year is Mike Vick. I know he is/was a scum bag but the Eagles signed him on the cheap. They value winning over character. Would I want Vick? You bet I would as he is not my neighbor he is just a guy I watch perform superbly on Sundays. We can all feel good about ourselves for not having Vick meantime the Eagles may end up in the Superbowl and the fans would not care if he had the horns of the devil.
 

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Kurt Warner probably was the best thing ever to happen to the Cards and one of the best human beings on this planet. I don't however believe he walks on water and is the sole reason this team went to the SB.

He will not become a AC or OC for any team because of the crazy hours those positions require. He has a lot of different things he wants to accomplish and being a coach in the NFL would take up all of his time.

If KW wanted to be an OC then I would be all for it, just isn't going to happen (IMWO).

These Warner threads always make me wonder what the heck happened in 2005. The Cards had the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Fitz and Boldin both went over 1400 yards and combined for 17 TDs. Yet the Cards couldn't run the ball for spit (so much for a top passing attack opening up the run game) and couldn't score when they got in the redzone.

And of course they finished 5-11.

Everybody was clamoring for the Cards to take a QB in the first round, after having the #1 pass offense in the NFL! So they waste the #10 pick in the draft on Matt Leinart.

You gotta love Cardinal football.
 

Mulli

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These Warner threads always make me wonder what the heck happened in 2005. The Cards had the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Fitz and Boldin both went over 1400 yards and combined for 17 TDs. Yet the Cards couldn't run the ball for spit (so much for a top passing attack opening up the run game) and couldn't score when they got in the redzone.

And of course they finished 5-11.

Everybody was clamoring for the Cards to take a QB in the first round, after having the #1 pass offense in the NFL! So they waste the #10 pick in the draft on Matt Leinart.

You gotta love Cardinal football.
This post makes me mad. :)
 

imaCafan

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Maybe someone should "tweet" Kurt to see what it would take to get him to be QB coach at least. I like the idea of him as OC also.....:thumbup:
 

Cardiac

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These Warner threads always make me wonder what the heck happened in 2005. The Cards had the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Fitz and Boldin both went over 1400 yards and combined for 17 TDs. Yet the Cards couldn't run the ball for spit (so much for a top passing attack opening up the run game) and couldn't score when they got in the redzone.


Are saying the Warner isn't the only reason we got to a SB. This must mean Warner and Haley got us there. ;)


And of course they finished 5-11.

How is this true since KW strapped us on his back and carried the team to the promised land and DG brought in more talent then any other coach in the history of the organization.

Everybody was clamoring for the Cards to take a QB in the first round, after having the #1 pass offense in the NFL! So they waste the #10 pick in the draft on Matt Leinart.

Your memory is far better then mine but IIRC ML was looked upon as a gift and not what most of us expected to happen.

You gotta love Cardinal football.

True dat.
 

football karma

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I will second what Cardiac posted

Being an assistant coach means 85 hour work weeks. Warner isn't doing that, no matter how much he wants to compete.
 

Mulli

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Kurt Warner would probably never fall in line with the chain of command in terms of what the head coach wanted.

Kurt Warner would never be hired as a coach in the NFL.
 
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Mitch

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I will second what Cardiac posted

Being an assistant coach means 85 hour work weeks. Warner isn't doing that, no matter how much he wants to compete.

Very good points by both of you.

However, I think the hours that coaches put in are very much exaggerated. Often times, coaches put in more hours because there's nothing else they would rather do.

Coaches also have plenty of time off---their jobs are akin---time-wise--- to teacher's jobs.

Kurt Warner loves the limelight. He loves competition. He has a real hunger for it. At some point he is going to miss it. He's probably a little bored already.

If the Cardinals made the right pitch, I think he would strongly consider it and I think there's a good chance he would take it, escpeially since he still lives in AZ.
 

DemsMyBoys

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I'd LOVE to see Kurt on our coaching staff. Ain't never gonna happen. He tweets constantly about the weight he lost while playing and the insomnia he still has. (He tweets when Brenda and the kids are in bed.) He also is thrilled that he can now go to his sons' BB ad FB games and events with his daughters. Apparently he's in talks for a reality show centering around his charity work.

I'd be the happiest Cards fan on the planet if he came back. But...
 
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Krangodnzr

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These Warner threads always make me wonder what the heck happened in 2005. The Cards had the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Fitz and Boldin both went over 1400 yards and combined for 17 TDs. Yet the Cards couldn't run the ball for spit (so much for a top passing attack opening up the run game) and couldn't score when they got in the redzone.

And of course they finished 5-11.

Everybody was clamoring for the Cards to take a QB in the first round, after having the #1 pass offense in the NFL! So they waste the #10 pick in the draft on Matt Leinart.

You gotta love Cardinal football.

You still have to have a competent offensive line....and teams picked their poison. If you know they can put up huge passing numbers, but their running game can be stopped and the team is prone to making mistakes (2005 21 interceptions and 26 fumbles!), then you stack the box, dare them to throw, stop the run on the way to the QB.

Now if that team DOESN'T turnover the ball and has a somewhat competent offensive line (our line was atrocious that year), then you won't be able to run. It's funny you don't believe this, but clearly most NFL coaches do.
 

Krangodnzr

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Kurt wouldn't do it. If you hear what he says, he doesn't want to put in the time required to participate in the NFL anymore. He likes calling games because it doesn't require the time that playing/coaching would. He now gets to spend lots of time with his family and I doubt he'd give that up.
 

82CardsGrad

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Very good points by both of you.

However, I think the hours that coaches put in are very much exaggerated. Often times, coaches put in more hours because there's nothing else they would rather do.

Coaches also have plenty of time off---their jobs are akin---time-wise--- to teacher's jobs.

Kurt Warner loves the limelight. He loves competition. He has a real hunger for it. At some point he is going to miss it. He's probably a little bored already.

If the Cardinals made the right pitch, I think he would strongly consider it and I think there's a good chance he would take it, escpeially since he still lives in AZ.

Yes Mitch. You are right about all of those attributes about Kurt. However, the one that you are placing way too much emphasis, and one where you are not addressing at all, is the boredom issue and his role as a husband and father.
He misses the game for sure. Nothing unusual at all there. However, Kurt has fallen back into a life that now provides for much more time at home. He's being a father and a husband in ways he has been in a very long time, if ever. And, while so many other retired great athletes also experienced this same situation only to then jump back into the frying pan by becoming a coach or TV personality, or some other commitment that then takes them once again away from home, Kurt is different. If there is one thing that we all should know about the man, is that he is about as different of an elite athlete as they come. His focus and priorities are not aligned with most other stars. He enjoyed the spotlight, but he most certainly does not seek it.

All that said, perhaps 5-7 years from now, maybe we'll see Kurt on the sidelines or in a booth. But not now. He's got a bunch of young kids and a wife that are just too important to him...
 

Krangodnzr

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Very good points by both of you.

However, I think the hours that coaches put in are very much exaggerated. Often times, coaches put in more hours because there's nothing else they would rather do.

Coaches also have plenty of time off---their jobs are akin---time-wise--- to teacher's jobs.

Kurt Warner loves the limelight. He loves competition. He has a real hunger for it. At some point he is going to miss it. He's probably a little bored already.

If the Cardinals made the right pitch, I think he would strongly consider it and I think there's a good chance he would take it, escpeially since he still lives in AZ.

This is not true at all. Coaches get very little time off, during the season it's an 60+ hour per week job, and they still work quite a bit in the offseason.

During the Cards-Niners game, Kurt was specifically asked if he missed the game and if his competitive fire made him want to come back. He went out of his way to say that he doesn't miss all the time required and that he has no regrets walking away from the game.
 

JeffGollin

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What's missing here is:

1. What goes into being a successful OC? (i.e. what do you have to know? What are the intangibles - i.e. ability to teach, knowing which buttons to push (i.e. when to be a "nurturer" or conversely a hard-ass), play-calling creativity, knowledge of the skill-sets required for each position, putting together a game-plan, ability to make in-game adjustments, ability to evaluate talent, having the trust of the HC)?

2. Does Kurt have most or all those skills?

3. Is he willing and able to acquire the skills he needs to have but doesn't?

I don't know these answers. (Hopefully, members of the current/future Cardinal coaching staff and FO do).

This is a long-winded way of making the following point: Just because you were a terrific pro QB doesn't necessarily mean you'd be a terrific OC. (But it might).
 

john h

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These Warner threads always make me wonder what the heck happened in 2005. The Cards had the #1 passing offense in the NFL. Fitz and Boldin both went over 1400 yards and combined for 17 TDs. Yet the Cards couldn't run the ball for spit (so much for a top passing attack opening up the run game) and couldn't score when they got in the redzone.

And of course they finished 5-11.

Everybody was clamoring for the Cards to take a QB in the first round, after having the #1 pass offense in the NFL! So they waste the #10 pick in the draft on Matt Leinart.

You gotta love Cardinal football.

I think 99% of those on this board thought we had made the coup of all time when we drafted Leinart at #12. Obviously the 11 teams ahead of us were a lot smarter than we were. Would we have taken Leinart if we were in a position to if he were say #2? I doubt it as the Bidwills are not in to spending #2 QB money. Leinart was the obvious choice for us unless you looked closely at his supporting cast. His entire backfield went to the NFL. His team was the best or second best team in the nation. His teams blocking was great. Maybe any average QB could have taken this team to the national championship. Had we not drafted him our fans and the press would have labeled us as nuts. They do that anyway. Matt is gone so its time to forget him I have heard it a hundred times from players and coaches. If a potential great QB is available on draft day you take him. I agree. You will never get a Peyton Manning by drafting QBs low. Someone posted a great set of stats on how the QBs who were drafted in various rounds had fared over the years. Without question the odds say first round QB picks are far superior to lower round picks in getting you to the Superbowl. At some point we will hit it if we keep trying. By not drafting a QB you are doomed to mediocrity and having other teams left over QBs.
 

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With all the $$$ the Bidwills saved this year...it sure would be nice to get contracts secured for G Deuce Lutui, WR Steve Breaston, C Lyle Sendlein, DE Alan Branch, etc.

Just say NO to Lyle Sendlein. A good running team starts in the middle and he cannot get a push off of the line to save his life.
 

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Saturday 1/1/11 4 PM EST. The significance of this is that teams have until then to re-sign players AND be able to assign portions of the signing bonuses to this year's team salary figures (capless year).

With all the $$$ the Bidwills saved this year...it sure would be nice to get contracts secured for G Deuce Lutui, WR Steve Breaston, C Lyle Sendlein, DE Alan Branch, etc.

While they are at it...how about using some of the saved money to make WR Larry Fitzgerald a career Arizona Cardinal---the date 1-1-11 is an auspicious sign for doing right by Fitz.
We all know with this F.O. 1-1-11 will come and go with zero movement. With two days left to hit that deadline its just that: dead.
 

imaCafan

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What's missing here is:

1. What goes into being a successful OC? (i.e. what do you have to know? What are the intangibles - i.e. ability to teach, knowing which buttons to push (i.e. when to be a "nurturer" or conversely a hard-ass), play-calling creativity, knowledge of the skill-sets required for each position, putting together a game-plan, ability to make in-game adjustments, ability to evaluate talent, having the trust of the HC)?

2. Does Kurt have most or all those skills?

3. Is he willing and able to acquire the skills he needs to have but doesn't?

I don't know these answers. (Hopefully, members of the current/future Cardinal coaching staff and FO do).

This is a long-winded way of making the following point: Just because you were a terrific pro QB doesn't necessarily mean you'd be a terrific OC. (But it might).

I think Kurt's ability to adjust in game as a QB is evidence of his ability to game plan somewhat. I would like to see him as QB coach for a year or two first. If he could coach up Skelton we would have a QBOF. Alas, as others have said, not gonna happen....
 

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I think if Kurt were to join the coaching staff right now it would be in a much smaller role than OC. QB Coach maybe, more likely in an offensive quality control roll. That way he would be able to work less than an OC and HC. He'd be able to get his feet wet and see if coaching was truly for him.

Besides, with Grimm being miraculously rumored as a possible HC candidate with all the openings available, I'd think he'd likely want to bring his boy with him, so the offensive quality control slot on our staff would be open.
 
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I think if Kurt were to join the coaching staff right now it would be in a much smaller role than OC. QB Coach maybe, more likely in an offensive quality control roll. That way he would be able to work less than an OC and HC. He'd be able to get his feet wet and see if coaching was truly for him.
My thoughts exactly. Not to mention that you don't hand the role of OC to a guy who's never held a coaching position of any kind at any level. Great players don't equate to great or even good coaches. If anything, great players more often than not fail at coaching.


Another question.....I've never really heard of this 1/1 rule. Do teams really use this loophole b/c I can't really remember guys getting signed to new contracts this late in the season for any team? Anyone have examples of teams actually doing this?
 
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