Cardinals Trade for RB Kenyan Drake

[Solar7]

You haven’t mention LT. The idea is to fill holes in the roster, not create holes to fill others.

Again I believe continuity and familiarity are huge factors. If we keep this offense intact there is reason believe those two factors will lead to an improvement in play and execution.

I too think we need a DE, ILB and OLB. We will not be able to fill all three positions with ‘splash’ players. However, I think we may be able to grab 1 splash player and one , maybe two, solid players. Maybe we have to live with the Reddick OLB experiment or maybe a Vic Beasley and let them fight it out. Or maybe Marsh gets a shot.

so if we fill those deficiencies on defense and draft Lamb I can live with that.

Sorry, when I said free agent dollars, I meant guys who are not returning players being re-signed. I’m going DJ Humphries here.

 

[Shane]

The radio today was making the case that you should never break the bank for a RB. You can ALWAYS find guys that will produce. They used the 49ers 3 RBs as an example all with good YPC all had impressive games at one point or another.

They listed others too. They said a smart organization looking for lasting success will invest in the OL not the RB...

 

[wit3card]

The radio today was making the case that you should never break the bank for a RB. You can ALWAYS find guys that will produce. They used the 49ers 3 RBs as an example all with good YPC all had impressive games at one point or another.

They listed others too. They said a smart organization looking for lasting success will invest in the OL not the RB...

Yes we totaly overpayed DJ and now we are not only missing ~6-7 Mio $ there but if we use another ~6-7 Mio $ for Drake we are missing already 12-14 Mio $ that is a really good to great DE or around the franchise Tag for Hump or a reall #1 WR and so on.

 

[football karma]

They used the 49ers 3 RBs as an example all with good YPC all had impressive games at one point or another.

oddly enough, it was the 49ers who kinda broke market giving McKinnon big money ($30mm /4 years -- two seasons ago) , only to see him go down 2 years in a row with injury --

kinda forcing a more frugal approach that happened to work out

I think their approach says more about their o-line and run schemes

 

[BurqueCardFan]

The radio today was making the case that you should never break the bank for a RB. You can ALWAYS find guys that will produce. They used the 49ers 3 RBs as an example all with good YPC all had impressive games at one point or another.

They listed others too. They said a smart organization looking for lasting success will invest in the OL not the RB...

Absolutely agree with this line of thinking, especially in this offense. We have seen every RB have success in this offense to an extent, even Chase Edmonds and David Johnson early in the year.

 

[slanidrac16]

Keep this in mind. Keim traded for this guy and it wasn’t to make a playoff run. I think it was with the plan of 2020 and beyond.

Let’s see where the numbers fall. I love the way Drake runs. He runs hard, fast and is near the top of the league in yards after contact. He consistently gained 3-4 yards out of nothing. It sickens me to watch DJ plod his way toward the hole, bend over and fall down for no gain.

If we go back to relying on him this offense will take a step back. I love Edmonds but he’s not built for the heavy load. He is a great one -two punch with Drake.

 

[Chopper0080]

Keep this in mind. Keim traded for this guy and it wasn’t to make a playoff run. I think it was with the plan of 2020 and beyond.

Let’s see where the numbers fall. I love the way Drake runs. He runs hard, fast and is near the top of the league in yards after contact. He consistently gained 3-4 yards out of nothing. It sickens me to watch DJ plod his way toward the hole, bend over and fall down for no gain.

If we go back to relying on him this offense will take a step back. I love Edmonds but he’s not built for the heavy load. He is a great one -two punch with Drake.

It is pretty stupid to trade for a guy who is on a one year contract without also agreeing to an extension if you want him part of your team long-term. That puts all of the leverage in their court unless you are willing to walk away.

Personally, I think Keim traded for Drake to try and ensure the offense looked good over the rest of the season and retain his job.

 

[slanidrac16]

It is pretty stupid to trade for a guy who is on a one year contract without also agreeing to an extension if you want him part of your team long-term. That puts all of the leverage in their court unless you are willing to walk away.

Personally, I think Keim traded for Drake to try and ensure the offense looked good over the rest of the season and retain his job.

You might be totally right.

 

[Chopper0080]

You might be totally right.

Desperate and/or dumb generally categorizes Keim's moves.

 

[daves]

Personally, I think Keim traded for Drake to try and ensure the offense looked good over the rest of the season and retain his job.

Desperate and/or dumb generally categorizes Keim's moves.

I wouldn't call wanting the offense to be good as "desperate and/or dumb." Kinda important for a rookie QB to have some threat of a running game... which unfortunately wasn't happening with Johnson as the primary back. And it's only fair to give the rookie head coach a viable running back to see whether he can make his offense work.

...dave

 

[Chopper0080]

I wouldn't call wanting the offense to be good as "desperate and/or dumb." Kinda important for a rookie QB to have some threat of a running game... which unfortunately wasn't happening with Johnson as the primary back. And it's only fair to give the rookie head coach a viable running back to see whether he can make his offense work.

...dave

Trading away an asset that can be used to fill a roster hole long-term for a player who will contribute for a team over one year but with no insured long-term value seems pretty dumb. I glad you are happy that we were able to lock up the #8 spot in the draft and keep Keim, but explain to me how it benefits the team in 2020.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Trading away an asset that can be used to fill a roster hole long-term for a player who will contribute for a team over one year but with no insured long-term value seems pretty dumb. I glad you are happy that we were able to lock up the #8 spot in the draft and keep Keim, but explain to me how it benefits the team in 2020.

The Cardinals were interested in Drake as a free agent target if they hadn't traded for him.

So they basically got to try before they buy.

They will have the opportunity to re-sign him before free agency begins which they wouldn't be able to do if they hadn't traded for him.

If Drake signs a contract with another team that was too rich for the Cardinals, that signing will apply towards a potential mid round compensation pick.

 

[daves]

Trading away an asset that can be used to fill a roster hole long-term for a player who will contribute for a team over one year but with no insured long-term value seems pretty dumb. [...] but explain to me how it benefits the team in 2020.

I think a 5th or 6th round pick is not much to give up for the opportunity for Kingsbury to develop a balanced offense in his rookie season and learn what works and what doesn't when the team has a viable starting RB, and for Kyler to avoid having to run or throw for his life on every play in his rookie year, potentially stunting his development. Those things carry over into 2020 and future seasons. It was also worthwhile for the team to be watchable and for the players and fans to have hope going into 2020.

I glad you are happy that we were able to lock up the #8 spot in the draft and keep Keim,

This board would be a lot more civil and discussions would be a lot more productive and informative if people didn't put words into other people's mouths. I'm glad that you hate the Cardinals and love losing! Ooh, that was fun!

...dbs

 

[daves]

So they basically got to try before they buy.

They will have the opportunity to re-sign him before free agency begins which they wouldn't be able to do if they hadn't traded for him.

If Drake signs a contract with another team that was too rich for the Cardinals, that signing will apply towards a potential mid round compensation pick.

All great points! The Cardinals could potentially get back a better or similar pick to the one they gave up.

...dave

 

[wit3card]

I wouldn't call wanting the offense to be good as "desperate and/or dumb." Kinda important for a rookie QB to have some threat of a running game... which unfortunately wasn't happening with Johnson as the primary back. And it's only fair to give the rookie head coach a viable running back to see whether he can make his offense work.

...dave

Oh we trade exactly because of our young QB and both RB out for the next game. Neither Johnson nor Edmund were able to start the game after the trade.

So we gave up a low pick to get a stop gap, we didn't want him for long term, we had DJ on the book for the big $.

And I still say, don't sign him for more than 3.8 Mio$ maybe 4 but that is max, let someone else overpay and get the comp pick and try your luck with a #3 or #4 rounder edmunds and DJ.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cardinals were interested in Drake as a free agent target if they hadn't traded for him.

So they basically got to try before they buy.

They will have the opportunity to re-sign him before free agency begins which they wouldn't be able to do if they hadn't traded for him.

If Drake signs a contract with another team that was too rich for the Cardinals, that signing will apply towards a potential mid round compensation pick.

A couple things.

Yes, they got to try before they bought, and it will now cost them more if not too much. If you really believed in the fit, they would have traded and signed with some sort of extension.

Yes, on a better roster they could have a better chance at adding comp picks, but not in an offseason where their plan is to sign multiple high-dollar FA players. Because their plan was to sign some high dollar players, Drake will likely get washed out of the comp pick formula.

 

[Chopper0080]

All great points! The Cardinals could potentially get back a better or similar pick to the one they gave up.

...dave

No. Your own FA signings offset the players you lose. The plan this offseason was to sign a bunch of FAs to bolster the roster. That will cancel out any loss of Drake.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think a 5th or 6th round pick is not much to give up for the opportunity for Kingsbury to develop a balanced offense in his rookie season and learn what works and what doesn't when the team has a viable starting RB, and for Kyler to avoid having to run or throw for his life on every play in his rookie year, potentially stunting his development. Those things carry over into 2020 and future seasons. It was also worthwhile for the team to be watchable and for the players and fans to have hope going into 2020.


This board would be a lot more civil and discussions would be a lot more productive and informative if people didn't put words into other people's mouths. I'm glad that you hate the Cardinals and love losing! Ooh, that was fun!

...dbs

It is interesting that you follow up a valid reason why you liked the move with a personal attack. It is ok that I didn't like the move because I felt that it was short-sighted and you liked the move because you felt it was more important to win games even if they didn't matter. This board would be a lot more civil and discussions would be more productive if people just backed their differing opinions with legitimate arguments and felt secure enough in them to not feel attacked...but that is just my opinion. You can hold onto your statement that I hate the Cardinals and love losing.

 

[football karma]

Personally, I think Keim traded for Drake to try and ensure the offense looked good over the rest of the season and retain his job.

yes

but I also think there is something to be said to try to make life easier for your rookie HC and QB at the same time --

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd give him $8M per year on a 4 year deal.

Clearly Drake fits this offense perfectly and I want him back.

man... that's way too much. big overpay where I don't think the market dictates that. I mean, Mark Ingram got 3 years 15 million last year and we'd be offering more, accounting for increase in cap... for a guy who's done ways less than Ingram. I'd offer 4 years 20 million and go as high as 4/24. otherwise, invest in the O-line and see who else is out there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It is interesting that you follow up a valid reason why you liked the move with a personal attack. It is ok that I didn't like the move because I felt that it was short-sighted and you liked the move because you felt it was more important to win games even if they didn't matter.

this is BS and ANOTHER personal attack by you because you totally twisted his words to begin with and then doubled down with this projection. Please show me ANYWHERE DAVES SAID "IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO WIN GAMES THAT DIDN'T MATTER".

What he ACTUALLY said was (and you should know this because YOU quoted him):

"I think a 5th or 6th round pick is not much to give up for the opportunity for Kingsbury to develop a balanced offense in his rookie season and learn what works and what doesn't when the team has a viable starting RB, and for Kyler to avoid having to run or throw for his life on every play in his rookie year, potentially stunting his development. Those things carry over into 2020 and future seasons."

Dave is CLEARLY saying he liked the move because it was about helping Kyler development as a rookie last season, something that would help in the future get his bearings in the league and provide hope for next year. And in fact, he never even says that needed to get WINS. Literally, NEVER talks wins... just Kyler's progression and development in year 1 that could propel him forward into year 2.

This board would be a lot more civil and discussions would be more productive if people just backed their differing opinions with legitimate arguments and felt secure enough in them to not feel attacked...but that is just my opinion. You can hold onto your statement that I hate the Cardinals and love losing.

POT MEET KETTLE... YOU'RE BLACK.

His statement "That you hate the Cardinals and love losing" was a sarcastic retort throwing you the same projected argument twisting crap that you initially did (as evidenced above). Crying the victim after he ribbed you by doing exactly the same thing back to you either makes you in serious denial about the argument you projected on to Dave or just a hypocrite.

 

[daves]

POT MEET KETTLE... YOU'RE BLACK.

I was about to respond to Chris myself, but couldn't have said it better than Cheese.

Chopper, if you sincerely didn't realize that my comment as a facetious way to show you how unwarranted and unconstructive your own comment was, I apologize.

...dbs

 

[Veer]

The more I think about it, my guess is that no team will come close to breaking the bank for Drake. He didn't do anything in 3.5 years. Then explodes in a non-conventional offense with a running threat at QB. He has always been a homerun hitter for sure, but even back to his college days he's never been a volume rusher. Solid but not great hands. Not really a route runner. He's never been asked to pass protect regularly. Not really powerful enough to blow through tackle attempts. There might not be a better fit for Drake than with KK/KM, and I highly doubt he will get money the Cards can't match. Tevin Coleman money is a good measurement imo.

 

[juza76]

The more I think about it, my guess is that no team will come close to breaking the bank for Drake. He didn't do anything in 3.5 years. Then explodes in a non-conventional offense with a running threat at QB. He has always been a homerun hitter for sure, but even back to his college days he's never been a volume rusher. Solid but not great hands. Not really a route runner. He's never been asked to pass protect regularly. Not really powerful enough to blow through tackle attempts. There might not be a better fit for Drake than with KK/KM, and I highly doubt he will get money the Cards can't match. Tevin Coleman money is a good measurement imo.

Was graded very well blocking, for sure light years better then dj
He has reliable hands by the way, he had always good stats in receiving yards

 

[Chopper0080]

this is BS and ANOTHER personal attack by you because you totally twisted his words to begin with and then doubled down with this projection. Please show me ANYWHERE DAVES SAID "IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO WIN GAMES THAT DIDN'T MATTER".

What he ACTUALLY said was (and you should know this because YOU quoted him):

"I think a 5th or 6th round pick is not much to give up for the opportunity for Kingsbury to develop a balanced offense in his rookie season and learn what works and what doesn't when the team has a viable starting RB, and for Kyler to avoid having to run or throw for his life on every play in his rookie year, potentially stunting his development. Those things carry over into 2020 and future seasons."

Dave is CLEARLY saying he liked the move because it was about helping Kyler development as a rookie last season, something that would help in the future get his bearings in the league and provide hope for next year. And in fact, he never even says that needed to get WINS. Literally, NEVER talks wins... just Kyler's progression and development in year 1 that could propel him forward into year 2.



POT MEET KETTLE... YOU'RE BLACK.

His statement "That you hate the Cardinals and love losing" was a sarcastic retort throwing you the same projected argument twisting crap that you initially did (as evidenced above). Crying the victim after he ribbed you by doing exactly the same thing back to you either makes you in serious denial about the argument you projected on to Dave or just a hypocrite.

How do you twist my statement that I respected his argument that he liked the move because it helped the team win games as a negative? Did those games matter? Ultimately no, but his argument is that the momentum carried into the off-season was also valuable. I don't necessarily agree with that belief, but I also stated that it was a valid argument.

Honestly, I don't think Dave needs you to try and cape up for him. He seems to do a great job for himself.

In terms of my "crying victim"...read into it as you want. To clarify, if we want to discuss board semantics, IMO Dave's argument is best as is...

"I think a 5th or 6th round pick is not much to give up for the opportunity for Kingsbury to develop a balanced offense in his rookie season and learn what works and what doesn't when the team has a viable starting RB, and for Kyler to avoid having to run or throw for his life on every play in his rookie year, potentially stunting his development. Those things carry over into 2020 and future seasons. It was also worthwhile for the team to be watchable and for the players and fans to have hope going into 2020.

...dbs"

I will admit that I contradicted this statement with my follow up. It was probably best as this...

"We can agree to disagree"