Cardinals' Veteran QB Options

[moklerman]

Thanks for the inside info, tnmike. Always appreciate things that don't come from the AP.

 

[Mitch]

It is interesting the candid insight I can get from them on several players, I talk to them about some of the former players that they have coached or played in college with. I don't ask about current players and am careful not to pry.

Have you met Dave McGinnis?

What's the story with Kenny Britt?

What are your thoughts about Jeff Fisher?

 

[moklerman]

Also, if the Cardinals flat out cut Leinart and passed on Mallett, I really don't see how Young would even be an option. Not even a consideration if I had to guess.

I still want to know why McNabb isn't even in consideration? Anyone even heard a rumor? I've seen it posted that Urban is convinced that McNabb's not an option but I haven't heard any back story as to why.

Not that I'm his biggest fan, but of the available names and the cost and potential benefit all rolled into the decision, McNabb would have to be at least a consideration if I'm the coach of the Cardinals.

 

[Mitch]

Also, if the Cardinals flat out cut Leinart and passed on Mallett, I really don't see how Young would even be an option. Not even a consideration if I had to guess.

I still want to know why McNabb isn't even in consideration? Anyone even heard a rumor? I've seen it posted that Urban is convinced that McNabb's not an option but I haven't heard any back story as to why.

Not that I'm his biggest fan, but of the available names and the cost and potential benefit all rolled into the decision, McNabb would have to be at least a consideration if I'm the coach of the Cardinals.

Very good points, moke.

Predictions:

McNabb to Miami
Kolb to Minnesota
Palmer to Seattle
Bulger to Tennessee
Smith back to SF
Orton to Arizona
Hasselbeck to Cincinnati
Jackson to Chicago
Young to Washington
Gradkowski back to Oakland

 

[tnmike]

No, I haven't met Dave McGinnis. I was going to ask about Britt but I had already pried enough for that day. I don't like to ask about current players because they are reluctant to talk about them and I don't want to put them on the spot. My #1 job is my business and I can't risk pissing them off by being too nosey.

 

[Mitch]

No, I haven't met Dave McGinnis. I was going to ask about Britt but I had already pried enough for that day. I don't like to ask about current players because they are reluctant to talk about them and I don't want to put them on the spot. My #1 job is my business and I can't risk pissing them off by being too nosey.

Thanks, Mike.

Your thoughts about Jeff Fisher?

 

[tnmike]

I have never asked what happened to Fisher but the fans in Nashville for the most part were calling for his head. I think the Titans just wanted some fresh blood in there. Fisher will show up again soon, my hunch is Dallas. I'm really not much of a Titans fan, I have been a Cardinals fan baseball and football since the early 70's. I ask more out of curiosity than anything.

 

[Evil Ash]

Very good points, moke.

Predictions:

McNabb to Miami
Kolb to Minnesota
Palmer to Seattle
Bulger to Tennessee
Smith back to SF
Orton to Arizona
Hasselbeck to Cincinnati
Jackson to Chicago
Young to Washington
Gradkowski back to Oakland

You likely have the top 2 backwards. Minn spent a first round pick on Ponder and its HIGHLY, HIGHLY unlikely that they would spend another first round pick on a QB. Just too expensive in the salary cap era.

That's why I'm opposed to sending anything more than a 1st round pick for Kolb and I'm pretty iffy even on that (if you trade for him, he's the guy - the QBOTF. You don't spend a 1st round pick on a stopgap). 4 teams eliminated themselves from the Kolb competition by taking a QB in the 1st round this year. Don't bid against yourselves

 

[daves]

Career Playoff Record as Starter:

1-Donovan McNabb: 9-7
2-Matt Hasselbeck: 5-6
3-Marc Bulger: 1-2
4-Tarvaris Jackson: 0-1
5-Vince Young: 0-1

For the record, you left out Carson Palmer: 0-2

...dave

 

[az jam]

Interesting analysis Mitch, some good thoughts as usual.

Reid has decided to go with Vick and is happy with Kafka as the backup. He traded up to get him last year just before the Cards pick as the Cards were going to take him and had to then settle for their 2nd choice, Skelton. (Note: As I recall Mitch, Kafka is the guy you wanted us to take). Kolb has one year left on his contract and then becomes a free agent so now is the time for Reid to sell him. The Cards are countering this by showing interest in Orton. IMO its a smoke screen.

IMO the Cards will trade for Kolb with at least their 2012 first round pick and probably more. He will be their franchise QB and they will resign Fitz for sure.
The Cards know that they badly need a qb or lose their fan base. They have plenty of film on Kolb and know he will create the buzz throughout the league and with the fan base. Some have compared Kolb to Rodgers per size and quick release. (I think that is a stretch.) They drafted RB Williams and TE Housler to give him more weapons. Skelton will be the backup and Bartel will compete with Hall for the 3rd spot.

Public Relations wise, they can sell Kolb better than any of the other qbs. Michael Bidwill promised the fans that they will contend again and getting Kolb will show that they mean business and kept their word. The Board will go crazy but be excited and cheer Kolb on to succeed. We don't have a tough schedule and should contend for the West with Kolb as our qb.

Kolb more than any other available QB gives them the WOW factor. Its a gamble for sure but IMO the Cards are going after him.

I know that others won't agree with me and over analysis his stats but what I'm predicting is Kolb is the guy the Cards want and are gong to get.

Just my two cents

 

[CardLogic]

Thanks, Mike. What a waste of talent, huh?

That said---we have not heard the last of VY---it would not surprise me if he won a Super Bowl with some team---that is, if he learns his lessons, can solve his depression and matures.

"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White

 

[desertdawg]

Interesting analysis Mitch, some good thoughts as usual.

Reid has decided to go with Vick and is happy with Kafka as the backup. He traded up to get him last year just before the Cards pick as the Cards were going to take him and had to then settle for their 2nd choice, Skelton. (Note: As I recall Mitch, Kafka is the guy you wanted us to take). Kolb has one year left on his contract and then becomes a free agent so now is the time for Reid to sell him. The Cards are countering this by showing interest in Orton. IMO its a smoke screen.

IMO the Cards will trade for Kolb with at least their 2012 first round pick and probably more. He will be their franchise QB and they will resign Fitz for sure.
The Cards know that they badly need a qb or lose their fan base. They have plenty of film on Kolb and know he will create the buzz throughout the league and with the fan base. Some have compared Kolb to Rodgers per size and quick release. (I think that is a stretch.) They drafted RB Williams and TE Housler to give him more weapons. Skelton will be the backup and Bartel will compete with Hall for the 3rd spot.

Public Relations wise, they can sell Kolb better than any of the other qbs. Michael Bidwill promised the fans that they will contend again and getting Kolb will show that they mean business and kept their word. The Board will go crazy but be excited and cheer Kolb on to succeed. We don't have a tough schedule and should contend for the West with Kolb as our qb.

Kolb more than any other available QB gives them the WOW factor. Its a gamble for sure but IMO the Cards are going after him.

I know that others won't agree with me and over analysis his stats but what I'm predicting is Kolb is the guy the Cards want and are gong to get.

Just my two cents

That's what I've been saying too, I hope it's Kolb.

 

[Zeno]

Very good points, moke.

Predictions:

McNabb to Miami
Kolb to Minnesota
Palmer to Seattle
Bulger to Tennessee
Smith back to SF
Orton to Arizona
Hasselbeck to Cincinnati
Jackson to Chicago
Young to Washington
Gradkowski back to Oakland

Minnesota just used a first round pick for a QB no way they trade another high pick for a QB.

 

[Cardiac]

"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White

+

 

[Cardiac]

Actually, seeing as Whiz likes to keep his tackles on an island, Young would be nice option at QB because he one of those elite athletes who can avoid pressure and take off when he needs to. He also freezes a pocket because the rushers are worried he is going to run.

For the record:

My top candidate for young QBs:

John Skelton

My top candidate for older vets:

Carson Palmer

And I still believe Donovan McNabb would be rejuventated in Arizona and would win us back the NFC West.

Yeah, I know, Cardiac, McNabb is at the bottom of Whiz's list.

It's great that you root for the underdog but VY is cancer on steriods. I also like Skelton and Palmer. I'm really hoping that Bulger is the 1st choice since he cost us nothing in draft picks and won't be very expensive to sign. As an FYI the NFLN crewvery much likes Bulger as an option for us. A year to rest and get back in good health etc.

Thanks for all the stats and I happen to think Bulger grades out very based on that info. To think he has 2-3 bad years and still produced some eye popping stats.

 

[Zeno]

It's great that you root for the underdog but VY is cancer on steriods. I also like Skelton and Palmer. I'm really hoping that Bulger is the 1st choice since he cost us nothing in draft picks and won't be very expensive to sign. As an FYI the NFLN crewvery much likes Bulger as an option for us. A year to rest and get back in good health etc.

Thanks for all the stats and I happen to think Bulger grades out very based on that info. To think he has 2-3 bad years and still produced some eye popping stats.

When 2006? Since then more INTs than TDs, completion % under 60, YPA hovering around 6 and QB rating around 70. He better be plan C.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

What is the point of givng the eagles a First rd pick, let alone a first rd pick plus a very good player/another high pick? Kolb walks for nothing after 2011 so Philly really isnt in a position to demand this kind of compensation.

 

[Mulli]

What is the point of givng the eagles a First rd pick, let alone a first rd pick plus a very good player/another high pick? Kolb walks for nothing after 2011 so Philly really isnt in a position to demand this kind of compensation.

Yep. They get a second. And a 4th if they ask nicely.

 

[Cardiac]

What is the point of givng the eagles a First rd pick, let alone a first rd pick plus a very good player/another high pick? Kolb walks for nothing after 2011 so Philly really isnt in a position to demand this kind of compensation.

Yes and no. If the Browns and Seahawks and Dolphins and Cards and ... are all very interested in Kolb then the price is what the market will bear. I would think any team executing this trade will have an agreement in place for a contract extension.

 

[Duckjake]

Yes and no. If the Browns and Seahawks and Dolphins and Cards and ... are all very interested in Kolb then the price is what the market will bear. I would think any team executing this trade will have an agreement in place for a contract extension.

I don't see the Browns having any interest in Kolb. If McCoy doesn't work out they can get another guy in the draft next year.

I like the idea of going with Palmer, Skelator and Bartel. IF we can get Palmer for Wells and a later round pick. I think Bulger is another Dewreck Anderson. But there are some slim pickin's among FA QBs.

By the way: what happened with Matt Moore in Carolina? Looked decent in 2009 and was terrible last year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

By the way: what happened with Matt Moore in Carolina? Looked decent in 2009 and was terrible last year.

From information from my people in North Carolina, Matt Moore was a classic case of a player playing well when teams didn't know his weaknesses and when teams did, he couldn't adapt.

It's the same reason that Hall looked slightly promising in one start (Saints game) and looked terrible once teams knew that if you threw the kitchen sink at him he'd fall apart.

 

[Seandonic]

I woud totally agree with you about Kolb/Reid, Seadonic, if the Eagles had a younger franchise QB already in the fold. Vick was injured last year. If they trade Kolb---and they have any intention of being playoff and Super Bowl contenders---who plays QB?

2nd year QB Mike Kafka?

I know they like Kafka, but he's about as much in their immediate plans as John Shelton is in the Cardinals'.

What, is Reid going to bring back Jeff Garcia as the #2?

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Keeping Kolb for this year costs them a whopping $1.7M.

And how about this scenario:

Vick gets hurt in pre-season, Kolb takes over and leads the Eagles to the NFC East crown and well into the playoffs. Then they can decide to either sign him to a long-term deal or franchise tag him---it's not like they have no protection from losing him beyond this year.

For all of these reasons, I think Reid does not see a "championship caliber QB" in Kolb---in fact, quite the opposite. I think Reid understands that the QB market is very high and he has a chance to pick up a very high draft pick, especially if he can sell a team on buying the notion that Kolb is what Reid says he is.

This is interesting.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fb78ec/Latest-headlineshttp://

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

This is interesting.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fb78ec/Latest-headlineshttp://

That has been exactly my point; the Eagles are not in a position to set the market and giving up what is rumored would just be moronic (which means Graves will probably do it.)

I would only offer them at most 2012 2nd round pick and 4th round pick or a 2012 2nd round pick and 2013 3rd round pick...

 

[Cardiac]

I don't see the Browns having any interest in Kolb. If McCoy doesn't work out they can get another guy in the draft next year.

By the way: what happened with Matt Moore in Carolina? Looked decent in 2009 and was terrible last year.

This is an article based on the John Clayton interview on KTAR. I agree that the Browns should go with Colt but Clayton isn't the only one thinking the Browns may be after Kolb. They do have an extra 1st and 4th rd pick next year so......

"I think Kolb is a three-way race," he told the hosts. "It's Arizona number one, Cleveland one-A, and Seattle maybe two-A. Miami will be in the mix too. If Kevin Kolb is option number one, Arizona has a great chance to get him if they throw in the number one pick."

http://arizonasports.com/category/c...6/It-comes-down-to-Kevin-Kolb-or-Marc-Bulger/


Holgrem and Reid have worked together so maybe the Walrus likes a QB that is a true WC type or maybe he is helping out his buddy Reid by inflating Kolbs price.

 

[JeffGollin]

Tremendous analysis. Unfortunately, there's so much of it that it makes my brain hurt.

Maybe we should go about this the same way mystery-writers outline their novels and marketing pros set up their strategic plans -

By starting at the end and working backward.

By this, I mean first figuring out what you want your outcome to be and then work backward from it to figure out how to get there.

The Cardinals have groups of WR's, RB's, TE's and OL's with various strengths, weaknesses and skill sets (that are not necessarily the same as for other NFL teams).

You can do certain stuff with Fitz, other stuff with Breaston or Steve Williams, dial up certain plays to suit Beanie, RW or THT - things which play to their unique strengths.

Rather than overanalyze the numbers, we might be better off squinting our eyes and conjuring up images of how these various QB's might read coverages differently, escape the pocket differently, how well - in terms of timing, accuracy and arm strength- they might hook up Fitz and our other receivers on their favorite routes. (That sort of stuff).

Because, in the end, it's how these QB's will perform on the field, within the context of surrounding teammates, opponents and coaching-philosophies that figure to determine how effective they might be.

How well Wiz and the Millers can accurately visualize what life would be like with each of these guys under center will be key.