Cardinals' Veteran QB Options

[lobo]

Interesting analysis Mitch, some good thoughts as usual.


Just my two cents

A perfect scenario in my book. You put forth reasons in a non-emotional manner for all the right reasons. I will be very disappointed if he does not come here. Kolb, from what I have seen of him, has the least amount of "what if's" attached to his name. Good rule of thumb by the way is to trade futures for today's certainty. Statistically, we will have no more than 30% of the fan base agreeing with this decision if it comes down. There are a few candidates, like Bulger who will get a bit less.

 

[Cardiac]

Vince Young


tick tick tick tick tick BOOM

 

[john h]

I really believe if a top flight QB isn't added to the roster this year, Fitz will walk & this whole situation has put pressure on Cards Mgmt to get a veteran signal caller. The chances of Skelton having a good enough year for Fitz to stay are slim IMO.

If I were to add a QB, the best option has to be Palmer. I was on the Kolb bandwagon after the season, but something just doesn't pop out at me & say this guy will be great. Remember we need a great QB to win a Super Bowl.

Hard to believe that as long as this franchise has been around that the QB play has really been putrid...Charley Johnson, Neil Lomax & Kurt Warner have basically been it's only very good performers!!! Loved Jimmy Hart, but throwing 250 Ints wasn't good :0(

Thx Mitch!!!

NFL GM's saw fit to make Skelton a 5th round pick so that is enough to make it unlikely he will be a QBOTF. Odds on 5th round QB selections making it big in the NFL are long or very long. There are several of these guys I would like to have. I think Hasselback has shown he can do it and so has Palmer. That does not mean they will be good this year but to me it puts them at the head of the class statistically. I am not for giving up a 1st or 2nd round pick for Kolb. Kolb to me is just like drafting a QB this year. He was a second round pick when he came out and nothing has changed to show he is any better than a 2nd round pick. Hasselback or Palmer might be able to give us 2-3 years of productive football which would allow us to search for the illusive QBOTF.

I was listening to ESPN this morning when they noted the 5 teams in the NFL that drafted best over the past five years were Green Bay, Saints, Colts, and two other good teams who I have forgot. The moral being if you draft well you will be a regular contender.

I certainly would like Palmer or Hasselback but my instincts based on past Cardinal performance is we will end up with someone like Bulger. A few notches above Anderson. I just do not see them starting Skelton. Fans do not like to even hear the word "rebuilding'. We are a here and now group. Players sure are not into rebuilding as like fans they like to think they can compete with anyone. If you ever sense your team is rebuilding and not trying to win it all now then it is time to move on as Hank Snow would sing.

 

[WildBB]

How sweet would it be to give Smith a shot and it works to our favor, beating out the 9ers for the division after they give the 1st for Kolbe!

It's an intruiging situation.

I'd love to bring Palmer in most though. And if Alex wants a change in scenery, he can sit and learn and come along at his own pace and then step in when ready. No pressure!

 

[WildBB]

Vince Young


tick tick tick tick tick BOOM

Could be big risk and high reward too.

As long as he's a secondary option at first, I'd be fine with him.

 

[Duckjake]

m

NFL GM's saw fit to make Skelton a 5th round pick so that is enough to make it unlikely he will be a QBOTF

.


Only if money comes into play. For instance if the Cards draft a QB in round 1 in 2012. That guy is going to play because he costs too much to sit on the bench.

Always remember that NFL GMs made Ryan Leaf a first round pick. The media cheated Peyton Manning out of the Heisman by talking up Leaf and bad mouthing Peyton.

The guys running NFL teams aren't that much smarter than hard core NFL fans. That's why they don't last long and half the league can't win more than 7 games and 3-4 teams dominate for years at a time.

 

[kerouac9]

.


Only if money comes into play. For instance if the Cards draft a QB in round 1 in 2012. That guy is going to play because he costs too much to sit on the bench.

Always remember that NFL GMs made Ryan Leaf a first round pick. The media cheated Peyton Manning out of the Heisman by talking up Leaf and bad mouthing Peyton.

The guys running NFL teams aren't that much smarter than hard core NFL fans. That's why they don't last long and half the league can't win more than 7 games and 3-4 teams dominate for years at a time.

Charles Woodson cheated Peyton Manning out of a Heisman by being a college football god in all facets of the game while Peyton Manning showed the country that you can't spell "Citrus" without "UT".

 

[Duckjake]

Charles Woodson cheated Peyton Manning out of a Heisman by being a college football god in all facets of the game while Peyton Manning showed the country that you can't spell "Citrus" without "UT".

Woodson wasn't even remotely in the Heisman picture until Manning became almost god like in the press. Then in typical American fashion the same idiots that put him on the pedestal started to tear him down. Creating Ryan Leaf, splitting the QB Heisman votes, and giving the Heisman to Woodson.

Jake Plummer's greatest contribution to the Cardinals. Kept us from drafting Ryan Leaf.

BTW did you miss this?

finishing 10–1, and advanced to the SEC Championship game against Auburn. Down 20–7, Manning led the Vols to a 30–29 victory. Throwing for 4 touchdowns, he was named the game's MVP, but injured himself in the process

 

[Buckybird]

Jake Plummer's greatest contribution to the Cardinals. Kept us from drafting Ryan Leaf.

I hardly think beating the hated Cowpies in Texas Stadium in a playoff game, which had been a Cards buriel ground for 30+ years was chopped liver #1 IMO

 

[Duckjake]

I hardly think beating the hated Cowpies in Texas Stadium in a playoff game, which had been a Cards buriel ground for 30+ years was chopped liver #1 IMO

Not too shabby. But can you imagine the humiliation and horrendous press if our poor sorry franchise had passed on Jake in '97 and selected Leaf in '98? We'd still be hearing about it every April 10,20,30 years later.

 

[Buckybird]

Not too shabby. But can you imagine the humiliation and horrendous press if our poor sorry franchise had passed on Jake in '97 and selected Leaf in '98? We'd still be hearing about it every April 10,20,30 years later.

too bad Wadsworths knees couldnt withstand injuries...he would have been special!!!

 

[AZCARDSFANATIC]

Ok let's look at this from the perspective of our team rather than as a fan. First off Paul Brown will not trade Palmer so he is out.
If we trade for Kolb, he will likely cost us a first and more. If he sucks we are out a first and more. If he is good then we have to pay him a crapload of money when his contract ends in 2012 or we give him a contract extension when we trade for him and he says "you paid a 1st and more for me so freakin pay me". If he sucks we are out a 1st and more and a crapload of money.
So here is the best situation for the Cards
Sign McNabb, why? Ok I will site one game when KVB broke the guy's ankle, he got taped up and still threw 4 TD's against us, I hated him for that but damn that is toughness. He may be going to the HOF, was Warner guarenteed the HOF before coming here? He has a home here and loves the valley. He is still mobile enough to deal with our crummy oline. He would be a great mentor to Skelton, since they have similar styles. He isn't a primadona and would get along with Whissy. He and Fitz have a relationship and get along very well. He will be cheaper than KOLB. He is availible. He wants a ring, and signing with the Cards gives him the best chance of getting into the playoffs due to our weak division. Once in the playoffs anything is game.

 

[moklerman]

I agree that McNabb is a good choice but Paul Brown hasn't done any transactions in a loooooooong time!

 

[Duckjake]

The Cardinals won't have any veteran QB options this year if the Lockout isn't settled soon. It sure looks like it will last for several more months. One court isn't doing anything until June.

One thing to think about with the rookies is that several players that have held out into training camp in the past have had problems.

Will the coaches consider the shorter training period and bring the new guys along more slowly?

 

[Zeno]

Ok let's look at this from the perspective of our team rather than as a fan. First off Paul Brown will not trade Palmer so he is out.
If we trade for Kolb, he will likely cost us a first and more. If he sucks we are out a first and more. If he is good then we have to pay him a crapload of money when his contract ends in 2012 or we give him a contract extension when we trade for him and he says "you paid a 1st and more for me so freakin pay me". If he sucks we are out a 1st and more and a crapload of money.
So here is the best situation for the Cards
Sign McNabb, why? Ok I will site one game when KVB broke the guy's ankle, he got taped up and still threw 4 TD's against us, I hated him for that but damn that is toughness. He may be going to the HOF, was Warner guarenteed the HOF before coming here? He has a home here and loves the valley. He is still mobile enough to deal with our crummy oline. He would be a great mentor to Skelton, since they have similar styles. He isn't a primadona and would get along with Whissy. He and Fitz have a relationship and get along very well. He will be cheaper than KOLB. He is availible. He wants a ring, and signing with the Cards gives him the best chance of getting into the playoffs due to our weak division. Once in the playoffs anything is game.

Wilson broke McNabbs ankle not KVB. Here is the picture of the hit...

You must be registered for see images attach

McNabb fits one type of offense, the one they run in Philly, not the one we run here that is predicated on accuracy. McNabb is NOT a terribly accurate QB. No way do I see Whisenhunt changing his offense for McNabb and McNabb could not run the Warner offense that the team has been built for.

You could expect similar numbers that he had in Washington and he'd be similarly lost in our offense like he was in Shanahans.

 

[Duckjake]

I can't argue that & I totally agree. I just hope all the Bulger rumors are...just rumors!!! Bringing in a has been that hasn't produced in 4 years seems ridiculous IMO.

What if all these teams decide to keep their QBs? That would mean no Palmer, no Kolb, no Orton, no McNabb, no Vince Young. That leaves Bulger, Hasselbeck and Smith. SF and Seattle want to keep their guys so the price goes way up. All we'd have left was Bulger.

In addition we likely won't be able to bring the guy in until July or August!

We're screwed. Hey Andrew buy an s for your uniform.

BTW: I just saw that Kerry Collins was 2-11 as starter for the Titans since 2008. Didn't realize it was that bad.

 

[Buckybird]

What if all these teams decide to keep their QBs? That would mean no Palmer, no Kolb, no Orton, no McNabb, no Vince Young. That leaves Bulger, Hasselbeck and Smith. SF and Seattle want to keep their guys so the price goes way up. All we'd have left was Bulger.

I really don't see Smith getting away from Frisco this year. I would rather roll the dice with Skelton if Bulger, Hasselbeck or Collins were our best options...though IMO it would result in another 5-11 year IMO. Maybe we could be worse & be Lucky. A solid QB class is coming out next year & my sleeper is GJ Kinnie from Tulsa. Not getting Kolb could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[JCSunsfan]

IMO Palmer has the most potential to be a Kurt Warner type of story. He has all the tools to be a greate qb but has been in a bad situation for a long time. His retirement comments rise out of frustration and wanting a change of scenery.

I think they would trade Palmer for Beanie.

Palmer and Skelton. I agree.

 

[kerouac9]

What if all these teams decide to keep their QBs? That would mean no Palmer, no Kolb, no Orton, no McNabb, no Vince Young. That leaves Bulger, Hasselbeck and Smith. SF and Seattle want to keep their guys so the price goes way up. All we'd have left was Bulger.

In addition we likely won't be able to bring the guy in until July or August!

We're screwed. Hey Andrew buy an s for your uniform.

BTW: I just saw that Kerry Collins was 2-11 as starter for the Titans since 2008. Didn't realize it was that bad.

Yup. Within the current QB market, getting Bulger would have to be viewed as a success, even if he just comes in as competition for Skelton (but Bulger would likely be the winner at least to begin the season).

Tavaris Jackson, Trent Edwards, etc., would represent failures.

 

[john h]

Bucky---I think there's a very good chance Fitz is going to remain a Cardinal for his entire career, regardless of what happens this year. I think Fitz is trying to put pressure on the organization to make the veteran QB move.

The good news is Fitz already had a very good 100 plus yard game with Skelton---and this is in light of the fact Skelton hadn't been given any reps with the 1st team until December. So that's a start anyway.

The Cardinals will make a move for a veteran this year---IF they can pull the move off---which likely means they are going to have to overpay to do it.

Mitch: I sure hope you are correct. You of course have more inside information than me. I still tend to take Fitz at his word which is money is no longer an issue with him. He said he has all he will "ever" need and that his goal is to win a championship. If he said money is not the issue I tend to believe him. If he even goes to the trouble of suggesting a QB it tells me he is serious. Who would not want to play with a consistently good team with a top flight QB and a chance to go to the Superbowl vs playing with someone like Skelton an unknown or some other pickup like a Anderson? He may have such strong local ties that he would choose to stay in AZ but if so why go through with this charade? I believe the guy and think our choice of QB and how the season goes will determine the fate of Fitz and his relationship with the Cards.

Our problem is no one really knows who will be a good QB who we can get this year. We could end up with another Kurt Warner or another Anderson. I just hope they use some good guide lines in selecting a QB. One being a past history of success in the NFL. Kolb does not past that test. Hasselback and Palmer do but even so there are no guarantees.

 

[john h]

Mitch, I think the best route for us is to sign a FA QB or trade for Orton (since he supposedly will cost no more than a 3rd according to Chris Mortenson). If we signed Matt Hasselbeck, we would *expect* him to be hurt at some point during the season. I think if he gave us 10 healthy games, that'd be enough to get us to the playoffs. In a strange way, having an injury prone QB might be a blessing in disguise as it will get Skelton on the field for another look.

But we simply cannot go into next season with Skelton as the #1 due to not bringing anyone in. That's no way to sell tickets and I understand from Whiz's perspective that he feels the need to win now and going with Skelton alone simply doesn't promise that.

The same sort of issues were raised when we signed Warner.

 

[john h]

Carson Palmer appears to be the Cardinals best option at QB but I'm not overwhelmed about the other QB candidates especially the asking price on a QB like Kolb. He may not turn out to be any better than average (I know there is an argument to be made for average). If the Cardinals didn't have Skelton, I guess I would be more concerned about taking a chance on Young. However, I believe some team will take a chance on Young and will be duly rewarded.

Kolb or Skelton or Skelton or Kolb. Both are works in progress other than we do not give up a pick for Skelton and pay him a minimum wage. We need some experience for at least the next two years.

 

[john h]

No coincidence that the QB's rumored to be on the top of Whiz's list would be on the bottom of Mitch's list. Can't even think about Vince Young working well with Whiz and again is Mitch's top candidate.

Why so? Does Mitch and Whiz have something between them? Seems to many people think it is Whiz's choice as to who the QB we sign will be. Have you guys forgot our long time GM Mr. Rod Graves, esq.?

 

[conraddobler]

I was on the Palmer bandwagon back during last season but now would prefer Kolb, even if it means giving up a first round pick.

Palmer is already retired in his mind. In his own words he's got a ton of money in the bank and does not need to ever play again. Wheres the fire? He just doesn't sound like he cares to play or not and that is disconcerting to me. With that said, he would still be my second choice. He just needs to have his mind right.

Kolb on the other hand is desperate for a chance to start. He's got fire galore. So much so that one of the things that I worry about with him is his getting himself hurt. Especially behind the Cardinals sieve like O-line.

Mitch, you touched on Reid's eagerness to trade this so called "championship caliber QB". I believe that Reid's perceived eagerness is not based on a lack of confidence in Kolb but instead, Reid respects and appreciates what Kolb has done and gone through and he knows that this is the perfect time for his protege to cash in and have a chance.

Basically what I'm proposing is that Reid does not feel that Kolb is going to be a Hall of Fame QB or he would not let him go, period...but, he does feel he is going to be a very good QB and he deserves the chance to spread his wings...no pun intended.

I appreciate the thoughts but these things were said during a contract spat, that requires him to THREATEN to retire to have any leverage.

The Bengals own his rights, he can't say I'd like to be traded because they were specifically telling him they wouldn't that he needed to report and play, so in that context he says, you know I got a lot of money and I don't need this anymore I'll just retire.

That's a lot different than saying this out of the blue.

I bet if he could come here and throw to Fitz he'd not be saying any of that.