Cards And Their 1st Round Picks

[NJCardFan]

Well, with Levi Brown gone, chalk another log for the woodpile called the Arizona Cardinals' 1st round selection. On this woodpile are a collection of 1st rounders who either turned into busts or turned into decent players who eventually moved on either by trade or free agency. Let's look at the draft since we became the Arizona Cardinals:

1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. Moved along in the purge of anyone worth keeping in 1999.
1995: No pick
1996: Simeon Rice-Excellent defensive lineman. Moved along ASAP and became a Super Bowl champion elsewhere.
1997: Tom Knight-bust
1998: Andre Wadsworthless-bust
1999: David Boston-Roided out beast of a WR. Moved along ASAP
1999B: LJ Shelton-Had an ok career here but only lasted about 5 years.
2000: Thomas Jones-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2001: Leonard Davis-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2002: Wendell Bryant-bust
2003: Bryant Johnson-OK receiver, moved on ASAP
2003B: Calvin Pace-Decent D-lineman, moved on ASAP.
2004: Fitz-Still here.
2005: Antrell Rolle-Horrible CB turned decent SS, moved along ASAP.
2006: Matty the L-bust
2007: Levi Brown-Bust and gone(likely)
2008: DRC-Traded
2009: The Bean-showing promise which means when his contract is up, say goodbye.
2010: Dan Williams-jury is still out
2011: PP21-stud DB/PR meaning when his contract is up, say goodbye.

There you have it. Out of 19 1st round draft picks and 13 since 2000, only 4 are still here. Does any other team have this kind of track record?

 

[BigRedRage]

To be fair, Levi started here for 5 years without injuries. Hes not a bust.

 

[Stout]

To be fair, Levi started here for 5 years without injuries. Hes not a bust.

Starting doesn't make a player good. BUST.

 

[Jetstream Green]

To be fair, it would be Cardinal luck to have a mediocre player drafted so high not have the injury bug and play sub par football to his heart's content. Levi might not be a bust but he was a draft hernia which is on the verge of busting considered where he was drafted and the irritating pain he caused knowing we could have used that pick on someone else lol

 

[Reddog]

Wow who peed in your cheerios? Your pessimism is clear when you don't call out Fitz or the last couple years as better trending.

 

[NJCardFan]

To be fair, Levi started here for 5 years without injuries. Hes not a bust.

The man is a human turnstile. He is a personification of a bust.

 

[THESMEL]

yep

Defended an immobile QB that threw more than 600 times a year with a run game last in attempts and yardage! Yea Levi is a playoff caliber OT on either side. proven even in the worse circumstance for an OT.

Thank you for Being a Cardinal Smushdown Levi Brown, Now go be pro bowl for a HC with some sense.

To be fair, Levi started here for 5 years without injuries. Hes not a bust.

 

[football karma]

this is as much an indictment on constant coach changing as anything else.

throw in a bit of "contract structure for top 10 picks" , mix with "putting off renegotiation until the last minute" .... and you get what you see above

 

[NJCardFan]

Wow who peed in your cheerios? Your pessimism is clear when you don't call out Fitz or the last couple years as better trending.

Instead of a stupid remark, how about looking at what I posted and at least try to point out where I'm wrong. Actually, that's easy, you can't. Fitz and it looks like PP are studs and right now, Fitz is here for a while. As for better trending, 2 of Whiz's 1st round picks are already gone and one the jury is still out on(Williams) so stop fellating Whiz and see things for what they are. I mean, how many coaches' 2 draft classes are completely off the team in 5 years.

 

[wa52lz]

Well, with Levi Brown gone, chalk another log for the woodpile called the Arizona Cardinals' 1st round selection. On this woodpile are a collection of 1st rounders who either turned into busts or turned into decent players who eventually moved on either by trade or free agency. Let's look at the draft since we became the Arizona Cardinals:

1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. Moved along in the purge of anyone worth ?

]Miller was not "purged" he wanted to be paid like a pass rusher, which he wasn’t in our defense, generated minimal interest in free agency because no one wanted to pay him like one, turned down 3 offers from the Cards who moved on and signed Fredrickson and drafted Rutlegde to replace him. Miller end up signing a 1yr deal in May w/ the Browns for less than a million, the last offer from the Cards was 1yr for a little over a million. There was no "purging" in 1998, Brown used the Cards to leverage more money from the Browns, who also promised him parking concession at the new stadium and a future front office jobs and Centers was a cap casualty (due to the Plummer contract and having to Franchise Rob Moore) unfortunately the cheap Cards greatly overpaid him in 1997, 5th highest paid RB at the time of his contract, he went from making $2million plus w/ AZ in 1998 to less than a million w/ WA in 1999.[/font]

 

[BigRedRage]

Starting doesn't make a player good. BUST.

Not being "good" doesnt make you a bust. Jam russel - bust, leaf - bust - starting for 5 years is not a bust. a bust is when you draft someone and they never play or are simply 100% useless. he was not useless.

 

[40yearfan]

Instead of a stupid remark, how about looking at what I posted and at least try to point out where I'm wrong. Actually, that's easy, you can't. Fitz and it looks like PP are studs and right now, Fitz is here for a while. As for better trending, 2 of Whiz's 1st round picks are already gone and one the jury is still out on(Williams) so stop fellating Whiz and see things for what they are. I mean, how many coaches' 2 draft classes are completely off the team in 5 years.

Right, so let's fire Whis and put you in there since you know so much more than he does. Then we get to use hindsight to critique your personnel decisions. See how well you fare.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Instead of a stupid remark, how about looking at what I posted and at least try to point out where I'm wrong. Actually, that's easy, you can't. Fitz and it looks like PP are studs and right now, Fitz is here for a while. As for better trending, 2 of Whiz's 1st round picks are already gone and one the jury is still out on(Williams) so stop fellating Whiz and see things for what they are. I mean, how many coaches' 2 draft classes are completely off the team in 5 years.

Check out the 49ers 2008 draft and their 2009 draft sucked as well

 

[TigToad]

I have to see this differently than you..

The front office and coaches may not have done their job, this is a pretty decent track record of first round picks.


1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. (starter quality pick)
1995: No pick
1996: Simeon Rice- (pro-bowl caliber player)
1997: Tom Knight-bust
1998: Andre Wadsworthless-bust
1999: David Boston- pro-bowl player, Cardinals saw his collapse coming and let him move on (fans were upset at the time, too)

1999B: LJ Shelton-(starter quality player)
2000: Thomas Jones-(pro-bowl quality)
2001: Leonard Davis- (pro-bowl quality guard)
2002: Wendell Bryant-bust
2003: Bryant Johnson-(reach, but starter quality)
2003B: Calvin Pace- (starter quality - we played out of position until the end)
(don't forget Boldin in round 2)
2004: Fitz- (Best pick in franchise history?.
(Dansby AND Dockett as well!)
2005: Antrell Rolle- (starter quality safety, has made pro-bowls)
2006: Matty the L- (No one saw this bust coming with the 10th pick)
2007: Levi Brown- (starter quality player)
2008: DRC- (starter quality player - made pro bowl)
2009: The Bean- (starter quality player)
2010: Dan Williams- (too soon)
2011: PP21- (too soon / probable stud)

This is actually a very impressive _draft_ history. We can talk about coaching/personel decisions if you'd like, but this is a pretty low bust rate. Not every first round pick needs to be a career pro-bowler like Fitz, just some of them. The rest need to contribute, or most of the rest.

Well, with Levi Brown gone, chalk another log for the woodpile called the Arizona Cardinals' 1st round selection. On this woodpile are a collection of 1st rounders who either turned into busts or turned into decent players who eventually moved on either by trade or free agency. Let's look at the draft since we became the Arizona Cardinals:

1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. Moved along in the purge of anyone worth keeping in 1999.
1995: No pick
1996: Simeon Rice-Excellent defensive lineman. Moved along ASAP and became a Super Bowl champion elsewhere.
1997: Tom Knight-bust
1998: Andre Wadsworthless-bust
1999: David Boston-Roided out beast of a WR. Moved along ASAP
1999B: LJ Shelton-Had an ok career here but only lasted about 5 years.
2000: Thomas Jones-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2001: Leonard Davis-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2002: Wendell Bryant-bust
2003: Bryant Johnson-OK receiver, moved on ASAP
2003B: Calvin Pace-Decent D-lineman, moved on ASAP.
2004: Fitz-Still here.
2005: Antrell Rolle-Horrible CB turned decent SS, moved along ASAP.
2006: Matty the L-bust
2007: Levi Brown-Bust and gone(likely)
2008: DRC-Traded
2009: The Bean-showing promise which means when his contract is up, say goodbye.
2010: Dan Williams-jury is still out
2011: PP21-stud DB/PR meaning when his contract is up, say goodbye.

There you have it. Out of 19 1st round draft picks and 13 since 2000, only 4 are still here. Does any other team have this kind of track record?

 

[BigRedRage]

The man is a human turnstile. He is a personification of a bust.

5 years starting is not a bust no matter how bad you are, sorry.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Instead of a stupid remark, how about looking at what I posted and at least try to point out where I'm wrong. Actually, that's easy, you can't. Fitz and it looks like PP are studs and right now, Fitz is here for a while. As for better trending, 2 of Whiz's 1st round picks are already gone and one the jury is still out on(Williams) so stop fellating Whiz and see things for what they are. I mean, how many coaches' 2 draft classes are completely off the team in 5 years.

How about the Rams 2007 and 2006 drafts?

 

[NJCardFan]

I have to see this differently than you..

The front office and coaches may not have done their job, this is a pretty decent track record of first round picks.


1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. (starter quality pick)
1995: No pick
1996: Simeon Rice- (pro-bowl caliber player)
1997: Tom Knight-bust
1998: Andre Wadsworthless-bust
1999: David Boston- pro-bowl player, Cardinals saw his collapse coming and let him move on (fans were upset at the time, too)

1999B: LJ Shelton-(starter quality player)
2000: Thomas Jones-(pro-bowl quality)
2001: Leonard Davis- (pro-bowl quality guard)
2002: Wendell Bryant-bust
2003: Bryant Johnson-(reach, but starter quality)
2003B: Calvin Pace- (starter quality - we played out of position until the end)
(don't forget Boldin in round 2)
2004: Fitz- (Best pick in franchise history?.
(Dansby AND Dockett as well!)
2005: Antrell Rolle- (starter quality safety, has made pro-bowls)
2006: Matty the L- (No one saw this bust coming with the 10th pick)
2007: Levi Brown- (starter quality player)
2008: DRC- (starter quality player - made pro bowl)
2009: The Bean- (starter quality player)
2010: Dan Williams- (too soon)
2011: PP21- (too soon / probable stud)

This is actually a very impressive _draft_ history. We can talk about coaching/personel decisions if you'd like, but this is a pretty low bust rate. Not every first round pick needs to be a career pro-bowler like Fitz, just some of them. The rest need to contribute, or most of the rest.

You're not getting my point. My point is that players either turn into busts or end up good and going elsewhere in the prime of their careers. You can go back even further to players like Hearst. Yes Rolle was good, is he still here? DRC? Still here? Rice, did he stay here? Jones? Also, please use some reading comprehension and stop bringing up other draft picks in these drafts. My point is on 1st rounders only. But since you brought Boldin & Dansby, are they still Cardinals or are they on other teams? Other teams, right?

Look, go back and look at the entire draft history of this franchise. Very few of our draft picks have long lasting careers here and in the last 20 years, only Fitz turned into a stud who signed a long term contract. Tell me of another team with that track record. Oh, and starter and actually being good are 2 totally different concepts.

 

[Shane]

Starting doesn't make a player good. BUST.

Yea sorry. I know Levi didn't play up to snuff as far as what was expected. But in most years he played much better as the season went along(notoriously slow starter). He was the RT in place and playing pretty well duing a 2 year year stretch that saw us get to and almost win a SB and get into the 2nd round of the playoffs the following year. He is NEVER hurt and regardless of the pass blocking short falls IMO he is a pretty damned good run blocker.

He was a disappointment considering where he was drafted sure. But he is in no way shape or form a BUST. Not even close.

 

[TigToad]

I agree with your point, but that is not the fault of our drafting. Our drafts have been solid. The problem may come from coaching with guys like Jones and Davis, or it may come from questionable front office decisions, that is not locking up guys before their free agent year. These are very questionable past decisions. I dont' think it is justified to come after the Cardinals from the point of view of their drafts. The weakness is in the ability, or inability, to resign their own talent.

We are improving in this area. We lost Dansby and Rolle, granted. I'd have liked to resign these guys a lot, but I wouldn't give either one the contract they ended up getting. The main way to get guys like this to resign early, and we tried to resign Dansby early for quite a while and tried to keep Rolle as well, is to win, win, win.

We have resigned Dockett, Wilson, and Fitz... these are core guys that in the pre-UoP day we wouldn't have kept.

We have a lot of talent on the roster right now. Except possibly Kolb, we don't have a lot of bad decision money on the roster, at least not more than most teams do, and little of it isn't money that can't be saved with cuts. The business is getting better with Michael B. and UoP and the drafting has been pretty good. We're also now .500 team since Ken, which is directly connected to why we are keeping some of our best talent instead of losing most if it as we did when we were a 5-11 type team. 3 more wins to the plus, and we'll keep most of the ones we want.

Boldin is a separate issue of how top teams often deal with players. We did lock him up early, got a lot of great years out of him and traded him for value when he wouldn't take a similar contract from us to stay. If every talented pick we had stayed for 2 contracts and left giving more value than we took him for, that would be a win.

You're not getting my point. My point is that players either turn into busts or end up good and going elsewhere in the prime of their careers. You can go back even further to players like Hearst. Yes Rolle was good, is he still here? DRC? Still here? Rice, did he stay here? Jones? Also, please use some reading comprehension and stop bringing up other draft picks in these drafts. My point is on 1st rounders only. But since you brought Boldin & Dansby, are they still Cardinals or are they on other teams? Other teams, right?

Look, go back and look at the entire draft history of this franchise. Very few of our draft picks have long lasting careers here and in the last 20 years, only Fitz turned into a stud who signed a long term contract. Tell me of another team with that track record.

 

[wa52lz]

I picked the Seahawks randomly to look at, here is there history since 1994-
1994- Sam Adams 6yrs w/ them, 8yrs and 3 pro bowls after
1995- Galloway 5yrs w/ them, 11yrs eleswhere
1996- Pete Kendell 5yrs w/ them, 8 yrs elsewhere
1997- Shawn Springs 7yrs w/ them, 6yrs elsewhere
1997- W. Jones 12 yrs great takle
1998- Anthony Simmons 7yrs as a solid starter w/ them
1999- Lamar King 5yrs 3 as a starter
2000- S.Alexander 8yrs, 1yr in WA
2000- Chris McIntosh 2yrs and done
2001- K. Robinson 4yrs w/ them, 3yrs and 1 PB elsewhere, then 1yr back with them
2001- Hutchinson 5yrs and 3 PBs w/ them, 6yrs and 4 PBs in Min
2002- Jeremey Stevens 5yrs w/ them, 4yrs elsewhere
2003- Trufant 9yrs w/ them
2004- Marcus Tubbs 3yrs and done
2005- Chris Spencer 6yrs w/ them, 1yr elsewhere so far
2006- Kelly Jennings 5yrs w/ them 1yr so far elsewhere
2007- none
2008- Lawerence Jackson- traded for a 6th round pick after 2yrs to det where he’s had 10.5 sacks as a backup the last 2 yrs
2009- Aaron Curry- bust
2010- Okung and Thomas
2011- James Carpenter

 

[john h]

Well, with Levi Brown gone, chalk another log for the woodpile called the Arizona Cardinals' 1st round selection. On this woodpile are a collection of 1st rounders who either turned into busts or turned into decent players who eventually moved on either by trade or free agency. Let's look at the draft since we became the Arizona Cardinals:

1994: Jamir Miller-Good LB. Moved along in the purge of anyone worth keeping in 1999.
1995: No pick
1996: Simeon Rice-Excellent defensive lineman. Moved along ASAP and became a Super Bowl champion elsewhere.
1997: Tom Knight-bust
1998: Andre Wadsworthless-bust
1999: David Boston-Roided out beast of a WR. Moved along ASAP
1999B: LJ Shelton-Had an ok career here but only lasted about 5 years.
2000: Thomas Jones-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2001: Leonard Davis-Bust here but pro bowler elsewhere.
2002: Wendell Bryant-bust
2003: Bryant Johnson-OK receiver, moved on ASAP
2003B: Calvin Pace-Decent D-lineman, moved on ASAP.
2004: Fitz-Still here.
2005: Antrell Rolle-Horrible CB turned decent SS, moved along ASAP.
2006: Matty the L-bust
2007: Levi Brown-Bust and gone(likely)
2008: DRC-Traded
2009: The Bean-showing promise which means when his contract is up, say goodbye.
2010: Dan Williams-jury is still out
2011: PP21-stud DB/PR meaning when his contract is up, say goodbye.

There you have it. Out of 19 1st round draft picks and 13 since 2000, only 4 are still here. Does any other team have this kind of track record?

Is this an ownership or GM problem? I say ownership since the owners hire the GM. Nice to see the list but not surprised at the results. Good job of compiling this information. I hope the people who make decisions read it and even better do something to correct it. I have been watching since the early 50's and have seen nothing much to suggest we have improved in this area. We do have a nice new stadium. We fill it up but I still wonder how much of our CAP money the owners are willing to give up. Fortunate for the fans they are required to spend a minimum amount. If the Cards by chance step up and sign Manning they will have gone a long way in convincing me they are at least trying. I am not saying that signing Manning is the best thing to do but just that they are willing to spend some money and really try and win. I think the team still has some philosophy problems left over from the Mr. B Sr. days. Things like signing your core players early on to longer contracts. Mr. B was not in to changing contracts early and appeared to be mired in days gone by when the owners where kings and players danced to the owners music. For a team with our record over the past decade the GM would be gone with most teams. Mr. B is apparently loyal to a fault. New owners with new and better ideas and more money have arrived in the NL There is no more room for the George Halas, Mr. B type of ownership if you want success. We are fortunate that we do have a team CAP otherwise we would be worse than we have been. If that is possible. I still have not figured out the new Mr. B but suspect his father is not completely out of the loop yet.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yea sorry. I know Levi didn't play up to snuff as far as what was expected. But in most years he played much better as the season went along(notoriously slow starter). He was the RT in place and playing pretty well duing a 2 year year stretch that saw us get to and almost win a SB and get into the 2nd round of the playoffs the following year. He is NEVER hurt and regardless of the pass blocking short falls IMO he is a pretty damned good run blocker.

He was a disappointment considering where he was drafted sure. But he is in no way shape or form a BUST. Not even close.

+1

 

[john h]

5 years starting is not a bust no matter how bad you are, sorry.

In the final analysis winning is what counts. Drafting good players and keeping them is part of winning. Our record would indicate we fall short in this area. Starting is not necessarily an indication of being a good player. It is an indication that your coach thinks you are the best he has at that position. You could still suck when compared to others at your position. You may be good on one team and terrible on another if you are played out of position or surrounded by bad players. Football really is a team game and how you perform as an individual is much effected by those around you including your coaches.

The fact is over the past 100 years the Cards are probably the worst team in the NFL. The reasons are legion. I have been a loyal Cards fan since 1945 and will always be. Being loyal does not mean being blind to what you see.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If we draft at 13 this year and pick anyone but DeCastro or Kuechley, you can add this pick to the list of probable busts.

 

[Duckjake]

Wow who peed in your cheerios? Your pessimism is clear when you don't call out Fitz or the last couple years as better trending.

Well Fitz was drafted 8 years ago. Since Fitz was taken four of the 7 first round picks are gone. Of the other 3 Beanie has a bum knee and Dan Williams is too fat and gassed easily and half the posters on ASFN want to run both of them out of town.

There is no way to put a positive spin on the success of the Cardinals first round selections. This is what Rugby was talking about. The same people who bash LJ Shelton, David Boston, Leonard Davis, Wendall Bryant, Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson, Antrel Rolle, Matt Leinart, Levi Brown and DRC come on ASFN and defend the Cardinals whenever someone criticizes their choices of first round draft picks.

It doesn't make any sense. When you have that many guys wash out it HAS to reflect negatively on the teams ability to judge or develop first round talent.

We thought the team was trending upward in 2008 when they took DRC and Calais and Early Doucet and Tim Hightower and Kenny Iwebema, and Brandon Keith. Now all those guys are gone except CC.

2009 was an ok draft. 2010 and 2011 could be awesome. I just hope the Cards can figure out a way to keep those guys on the field and playing at a high level for 5,6,7 years.