Cards interested in Malcolm Floyd

Bert

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He got taken to the woodshed in the QB trade. Even if Kolb turns out to be a pro bowler 5 times over, there was no way he was worth at the time, what we gave up to secure him. That's like saying this stock was worth paying 300 percent too much, 20 years later when inflation has pushed everything up by a thousand percent, and saying you did well.

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

So it would be better to buy stock on the cheap and never have it go anywhere than to over pay but still make money in the end?

If Kolb goes to 5 straight pro bowls during his 6 year contract, we'll have gotten a steal, plain and simple.

Like cheese said, you always view trades with hindsight.
 

DoTheDew

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He got taken to the woodshed in the QB trade. Even if Kolb turns out to be a pro bowler 5 times over, there was no way he was worth at the time, what we gave up to secure him. That's like saying this stock was worth paying 300 percent too much, 20 years later when inflation has pushed everything up by a thousand percent, and saying you did well.

If you are going to use an economic example then consider what anyone who starts a business does. They borrow thousands or millions of dollars based purely on the belief that they will get more value back then they gave up. You pay whatever cost you have to if you believe the reward is worth it.

We believe that Kolb will be a good QB and we weren't going to get him for less. The Eagles were hesitant to give him up for this even and wanted a 1st. If you believe Kolb is your QBOF and that is the price then you pay it. Only time will tell if they were right about him being QBOF, but we didn't get taken to the woodshed. Everyones favorite example of a similar trade is Matt Schaub who cost two 2nds. You have to ask yourself if we had traded DRC to a team right now if he would have got us more then a 2nd? I don't believe any team would have given up a first for DRC today, so we basically gave up the equivalent value of 2 2nd in my mind.
 

conraddobler

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The price of this deal dosen't bother me at all, it's who made it.

If someone goes out who knows what they are doing and pays this for a QB I just go, well good, can't wait.

When Graves does this, I have a real queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach.
 

Mainstreet

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The price of this deal dosen't bother me at all, it's who made it.

If someone goes out who knows what they are doing and pays this for a QB I just go, well good, can't wait.

When Graves does this, I have a real queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Let's hope Fitz weighed in heavy on the decision. A good receiver should know a good QB.
 

Mulli

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Just saw a rumor concerning Cards and Braylon Edwards. @timring3TV. :sad:
 

CardsFan88

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Good on you!

The ability to see 6 years into the future is an extremely rare thing; some would say impossible but, obviously, your comfortable with your prognostications.

Thanks for the insight.

Nowhere did I look 6 years into the future.

What I said is IT DIDN'T MATTER.

Jesus, how hard is it to understand the obvious.

You get a good deal, or you don't. We didn't get a good deal, even if on the back end it works out.

A 2nd round pick, a pro bowl player, and then 63 mill in cap space over the contract + this years number = too much for unproven.

You don't pay THAT much, for an unproven guy.

We overpaid. Period. Anyone that says a guy who's started a smattering of games is worth that much is a sucker.

Now looking back from 5 years, you might say he got a good deal. But we don't make trades based off what we think 5 years from now, because 5 years from now we don't know.

You actually made my point. By giving up THAT much, we are already assuming he is going to be that good, because otherwise, why give up THAT MUCH.

Thanks for making my point.
 

CardsFan88

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Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

So it would be better to buy stock on the cheap and never have it go anywhere than to over pay but still make money in the end?

If Kolb goes to 5 straight pro bowls during his 6 year contract, we'll have gotten a steal, plain and simple.

Like cheese said, you always view trades with hindsight.

No, it's stupid to expect that because of inflation, the deal worked out. No, the increase was inflation, not an actual value increase.

You view trades in hindsight? Yes, but you make them with the facts at hand.

Unroven...check
concussions...check
maybe worthless statistics (but certainly not glowing)...check

We give up
2nd round pick
DRC
and tons of cap space

On nothing more than a roll of a dice.

When we could have had the same roll and not wagered so much. (and no in this game the amount you wager has very little bearing if any on the payout)

You win a superbowl or don't..the payout is the same.
 

CardsFan88

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So even if we get a good deal, we still got a bad deal? LOL.

Yes. Because when you could've gotten the same or similar deal for 1/4th as much, sure.

If the results are the same or similar, isn't paying 4x as much stupid? Sure is.

If you want a car that runs for 5 years, and that's your point, does it matter if you pay 15k or 75k?

Sure does.

Because in the end, if both run 5 years from now, one paid 5x as much for the same goal.

Meanwhile we paid for the finicky car, that might not even be on the street 5 years from now and paid 75k.
 

blindseyed

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You actually made my point. By giving up THAT much, we are already assuming he is going to be that good, because otherwise, why give up THAT MUCH.

Thanks for making my point.

So then according to you, it's a good deal cuz (assuming the above is correct) it was worth it...
I wish you'd stop wavering and say what you mean lol
 

Longcolts

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No, it's stupid to expect that because of inflation, the deal worked out. No, the increase was inflation, not an actual value increase.

You view trades in hindsight? Yes, but you make them with the facts at hand.

Unroven...check
concussions...check
maybe worthless statistics (but certainly not glowing)...check

We give up
2nd round pick
DRC
and tons of cap space

On nothing more than a roll of a dice.

When we could have had the same roll and not wagered so much. (and no in this game the amount you wager has very little bearing if any on the payout)

You win a superbowl or don't..the payout is the same.


You are certainly allowed your opinion but I do have one question for you. Where does the tons of Cap Space come into play?
 

CardsFan88

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If you are going to use an economic example then consider what anyone who starts a business does. They borrow thousands or millions of dollars based purely on the belief that they will get more value back then they gave up. You pay whatever cost you have to if you believe the reward is worth it.

We believe that Kolb will be a good QB and we weren't going to get him for less. The Eagles were hesitant to give him up for this even and wanted a 1st. If you believe Kolb is your QBOF and that is the price then you pay it. Only time will tell if they were right about him being QBOF, but we didn't get taken to the woodshed. Everyones favorite example of a similar trade is Matt Schaub who cost two 2nds. You have to ask yourself if we had traded DRC to a team right now if he would have got us more then a 2nd? I don't believe any team would have given up a first for DRC today, so we basically gave up the equivalent value of 2 2nd in my mind.

Yes, and they may or may not be stupid when they do it.

In reality, you should only open up a business and take out that money, if you can actually do it...NOT IF YOU BELIEVE you can. It's 0 or 1, and belief doesn't change it one bit.

Do you really think they 'believe' in Kolb? Maybe on camera. I think they 'believe' he was the best one out there, and that's two completely different things.

Just because one believes he's a good qb, doesn't mean he is. It also doesn't mean there weren't OTHER good qb's out there.

You see it's all about shutting down the part of ones brain to believe sophistry. Oh, he's the one. Really? There's only one? How does one know? What makes this guy better than anyone else? What makes him better than any of the other options? If one has answers for those and many more questions like it...is it worth the difference in price?

People need to stop believing sophistry. Because that's all belief in something that doesn't deserve it, is.

I never said he won't be good, I said there are alot of question marks. Way too many to give up that much, when any other offer we basically risked nothing.

So for this ONE guy, which no one can say why he's so much better, we go from taking almost no risk, to taking almost a TBTF risk.

That's an asinine way to look at it.

For every Matt Schaub trade (who had 2 1/2 years as a starter), there is many more trades. The going rate for players is a 3rd-5th. That's for a proven guy.

We took an unproven guy who isn't the starter, and paid a 2nd AND a young probowl player who can take it to the house via int or return duties.

Plus we then and gave him a contract based on if he's the 2nd coming of warner.

People just can't face reality. We paid alot for potential, and very few can even quantify what that potential is...or better yet once again...his potential versus other options. They sure and the hell can point out where the difference in cost comes from.

A fool and his money are easily parted. Well we just got taken like we were, and now have to hope somehow it works out. Maybe it does, but again paying through the nose, doesn't make a player any better. It sure makes the team that paid through the nose, worse.

How hard is that? It's not zero sum, and very few people understand optimal. Because guess what, almost nothing is. That's why it's a high bar. Even if we're not judged against it, it's still one that we pass/fail.
 

Bert

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No, it's stupid to expect that because of inflation, the deal worked out. No, the increase was inflation, not an actual value increase.

You view trades in hindsight? Yes, but you make them with the facts at hand.

Unroven...check
concussions...check
maybe worthless statistics (but certainly not glowing)...check

We give up
2nd round pick
DRC
and tons of cap space

On nothing more than a roll of a dice.

When we could have had the same roll and not wagered so much. (and no in this game the amount you wager has very little bearing if any on the payout)

You win a superbowl or don't..the payout is the same.

His guarateed money is 22mil over 6 years.

Sorry that's not TONS of cap space. If we wind up paying him the full 60 mill he will have played great and earned it. Much like a stock performing well over time.
 

CardsFan88

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You are certainly allowed your opinion but I do have one question for you. Where does the tons of Cap Space come into play?

63 million over 5 seasons. That's over 12 per season.

Or about 10 percent of our cap space. (aside from this years salary)
 

Bert

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63 million over 5 seasons. That's over 12 per season.

Or about 10 percent of our cap space. (aside from this years salary)

It doesn't work that way, the contract is filled with escalators based on performance, that's why it's not all guranteed money, and therefore it doesn't all count against the cap.
 

CardsFan88

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His guarateed money is 22mil over 6 years.

Sorry that's not TONS of cap space. If we wind up paying him the full 60 mill he will have played great and earned it. Much like a stock performing well over time.

As long as he is on the team he is taking it up. So until we cut him, he will be taking it up, and you can't assume he is performing well over time until we cut him, because he has a couple of years to eat up that much space. He has to play good to prove it, and until then, he IS taking it up.

Either way, that's the 3rd part of the deal, a pick and drc are the others.

.
 

Longcolts

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63 million over 5 seasons. That's over 12 per season.

Or about 10 percent of our cap space. (aside from this years salary)


Which is the low end of the scale for a QB these days, and I believe it's 63.5 over 6 seasons.
 

Bert

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I didn't see escalators. That would change it. But how much is the escalators. 10 percent? 40 percent?

It's 22 million guaranteed.

They didn't say how much the signing bonus was, if there is any at all.

The rest of the contract is escalators built in for the rest of the deal. That's how the Cards always do contracts.

I'm not trying to be combative with you at all, but it's not a straight 63 mil against the cap over 6 years, that's now how it works.

That's all I'm sayin. Peace.
 

CardsFan88

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Which is the low end of the scale for a QB these days, and I believe it's 63.5 over 6 seasons.

Who cares what other people do. That's the assumed rate for a good QB. Many of them don't live up to it.

But look you know what, the salary is the smallest part of what I'm concerned about.

The simple fact is, we're taking 3 risks

1. DRC
2. Pick
3. Cap space

Their effects can be cumlative

...and again I never said the guy won't be good, I just don't agree with selling the house to buy a car you never test drove.
 

Bert

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Who cares what other people do. That's the assumed rate for a good QB. Many of them don't live up to it.

But look you know what, the salary is the smallest part of what I'm concerned about.

The simple fact is, we're taking 3 risks

1. DRC
2. Pick
3. Cap space

Their effects can be cumlative

...and again I never said the guy won't be good, I just don't agree with selling the house to buy a car you never test drove.

#2 can also be mitigated by Kolbs performance.

If you're thinking of us like last year as a 5-11 team, then that pick has high value. However if Kolb plays well then the value of that pick can drop to the late second round, so the value of that pick just dropped and Kolb's went up even more.

Lot of factors and the bottom line is we just cant know how good or bad this trade was at this moment. In my opinion ofcourse.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The price of this deal dosen't bother me at all, it's who made it.

If someone goes out who knows what they are doing and pays this for a QB I just go, well good, can't wait.

When Graves does this, I have a real queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach.

argh, i hadn't even considered this angle! we're DOOOMED!
 

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